Restrict Judgment powers during regular play.

[Indystruck]

I just think all clickable incarnate abilities could use an increase in recharge duration, hybrid excluded.

[Tugzug]

My preferred solution is simply to not play much of the endgame content. I do still like to play some of it, but the ceaseless steamroll does get boring. As others have said though this is heavily due to IOs and how easily they are acquired now.

 

It goes without saying but I doubt there exists a good solution that will appease all the players in this regard. The most logical move would be to expand content in the game so you could truly have an incarnate playground worthy of the powers you get, but I'm not trying to burden the HC team with writing and coding a mountain of content. Maybe one day we'll get there, but to once again echo other comments in this thread: better just create your own team with your own rules. You can always set the pace for your own adventure!

[Yaliw]

If there was more content that really pushed the difficulty and made incarnate powers practically required, it wouldn't be such an issue. But it is really disheartening playing a buffing character but being completely worthless on a team once level 50 rolls around since the incarnate buffs nullify the use of, for example, force field.

 

I really wish there was incentive to not use incarnate content or to encourage people with incarnate powers to do content designed for those powers. As it is now, there is no distinction, it's all level 50 content. It also doesn't help that the incarnate powers are pitifully easy to obtain for any level 50. If the incarnate powers required more time to obtain, we'd see less frequent 50+3's running around spamming buffs and virtually soloing content.

[Apparition]

30 minutes ago, Yaliw said:

If there was more content that really pushed the difficulty and made incarnate powers practically required, it wouldn't be such an issue. But it is really disheartening playing a buffing character but being completely worthless on a team once level 50 rolls around since the incarnate buffs nullify the use of, for example, force field.

 

I really wish there was incentive to not use incarnate content or to encourage people with incarnate powers to do content designed for those powers. As it is now, there is no distinction, it's all level 50 content. It also doesn't help that the incarnate powers are pitifully easy to obtain for any level 50. If the incarnate powers required more time to obtain, we'd see less frequent 50+3's running around spamming buffs and virtually soloing content.

 

IOs nullified the use of Force Field long before Incarnates came along, although they don't help. 

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Yaliw said:

I really wish there was incentive to not use incarnate content or to encourage people with incarnate powers to do content designed for those powers.

Well, two of the powers you can't turn off (Alpha, which honestly I'm fine with being a "reward" for everything, and Interface.) Otherwise, there is one (for some) -

 

Badges.

Finish X content/TF/whatever "without using Lore, Judgement or.... " (the one that's slipping my mind right now. Clarion, etc.) "after obtaining them" - get the "(almost) old school" badge. Powers *have* to be in your tray and there to be used, but not used.

 

... heck, have one that you can only get by having no set bonuses. "Really old school." All SOs (or common IOs.) Just have to have a build with no set bonuses or procs. (Again, fine with Alpha or Interface.)

 

Sure, they're not for everyone, but it'd be interesting to see who'd take those challenges.

[MunkiLord]

2 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Well, two of the powers you can't turn off (Alpha, which honestly I'm fine with being a "reward" for everything, and Interface.) Otherwise, there is one (for some) -

 

Badges.

Finish X content/TF/whatever "without using Lore, Judgement or.... " (the one that's slipping my mind right now. Clarion, etc.) "after obtaining them" - get the "(almost) old school" badge. Powers *have* to be in your tray and there to be used, but not used.

 

... heck, have one that you can only get by having no set bonuses. "Really old school." All SOs (or common IOs.) Just have to have a build with no set bonuses or procs. (Again, fine with Alpha or Interface.)

 

Sure, they're not for everyone, but it'd be interesting to see who'd take those challenges.

This does sound interesting, but I gotta be honest, I don't know how to build a level 50 character using only SOs at this point.

[Troo]

2 acc, 3 dam, with an end, rech, or other as appropriate... wait you were probably joking.

[MTeague]

7 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

This does sound interesting, but I gotta be honest, I don't know how to build a level 50 character using only SOs at this point.

Sure you do.  If you can build a character with them you can build without.

It just becomes much more important then to also assemble a decent team with the buffs you're used to thinking of as superflous.  

Bubblers (of all kinds, not just FF!) suddenly become key, especially in a full team or league.

 

And Hami-O's would become extra tasty once again.

Edited April 21, 2020 by MTeague

[MunkiLord]

I could figure it out, it's just been soooooooooooooooooooo long that I'd have to put a decent amount of thought into it.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

IOs nullified the use of Force Field long before Incarnates came along, although they don't help. 

Wow.

 

Dear FFers, you keeping rocking that stuff, the squishies and 'average' players appreciate it.

 

2 hours ago, Yaliw said:

If there was more content that really pushed the difficulty and made incarnate powers practically required, it wouldn't be such an issue. But it is really disheartening playing a buffing character but being completely worthless on a team once level 50 rolls around since the incarnate buffs nullify the use of, for example, force field.

 

I really wish there was incentive to not use incarnate content or to encourage people with incarnate powers to do content designed for those powers. As it is now, there is no distinction, it's all level 50 content. It also doesn't help that the incarnate powers are pitifully easy to obtain for any level 50. If the incarnate powers required more time to obtain, we'd see less frequent 50+3's running around spamming buffs and virtually soloing content.

With incarnates on top of IOs, our characters can progress beyond initial capabilities approaching deity like levels.

Roles can become more lenient. Build a specialist or a generalist, it's all up to the player.

(see 'Proc Monsters - The New Offender' for details on bending builds)

 

I digress.. Yes please more high level content. Yes minimize incarnate usage <50 +1 for non-incarnate content.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Troo

[Hyperstrike]

On 3/25/2020 at 2:04 PM, Darkneblade said:

Seriously they need to restricted on regular play it makes things less fun on groups because someone always using it.

/jranger (aka NOPE!)

If you can come up with a technical reason?  Basis for discussion.

But you're arguing solely based on an anecdotal, personally qualitative measurement of "Fun".

What if I'm a wannabe thunder god (aka an Elec/Elec Tank wannabe) who spams Ion every time it comes up?
What if *I* think *THAT* is fun?
Hmm?

 

[Hyperstrike]

48 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Well, two of the powers you can't turn off (Alpha, which honestly I'm fine with being a "reward" for everything, and Interface.) Otherwise, there is one (for some) -

Uh.  How are Alpha and Interface "unable to be turned off"?
Powers ==> Incarnate Abilities ==> Right-Click on Incarnate Ability ==> Select "Clear Slot"

With nothing in the slots, the powers don't exist.

[Troo]

@Hyperstrike should incarnate powers work in level 15 content?

[Hyperstrike]

Just now, Troo said:

@Hyperstrike should incarnate powers work in level 15 content?

No, they shouldn't.
If you're properly Exemp'ed, those powers are all disabled.
If not, it falls under "This Is A Bug".

[Troo]

Makes sense.

So should they work in level 40 content? Again the answer is no, they shouldn't.

I believe folks are asking where should that line then be?

 

Personally, I think if you earned the Alpha it should work at all times similar to Purple IOs.

The rest of the incarnates should only be available at level 50 and higher. (my preference might be too complicated to implement)

 

As a compromise, I believe the line should be level 50 or level 50 +1,

 

The current line (45) causes some issues with overpowered characters drowning out non-incarnate players who are doing regular content. Not really anyone's fault, just happens.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Troo

[golstat2003]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

Makes sense.

So should they work in level 40 content? Again the answer is no, they shouldn't.

I believe folks are asking where should that line then be?

 

Personally, I think if you earned the Alpha it should work at all times similar to Purple IOs.

The rest of the incarnates should only be available at level 50 and higher. (my preference might be too complicated to implement)

 

As a compromise, I believe the line should be level 50 or level 50 +1,

why? what's the difference between alpha and all the other incarnate powers. They are all incarnate powers earned via trails, threads, astrals emps.

 

This is like trying to have your cake an eat it too.

 

Personally I think the system as is is fine. We just need more content for incarnates to do. And give leaders the option to set teams to no incarnates if that's really needed. (I don't think it is, but more options is more options for everyone.)

Edited April 21, 2020 by golstat2003

[Troo]

3 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

why? what's the difference between alpha and all the other incarnate powers. They are all incarnate powers earned via trails, threads, astrals emps.

This is a good question. (side note:I totally agree with more content. leader settings could work too)

 

There is a difference.

• Alpha functions as a universal Enhancement that affects all applicable powers.
• Judgement, Lore, Destiny add additional powers.

[golstat2003]

Just now, Troo said:

This is a good question. (side note:I totally agree with more content. leader settings could work too)

 

There is a difference.

• Alpha functions as a universal Enhancement that affects all applicable powers.
• Judgement, Lore, Destiny add additional powers.

A consider the significant end redux, damage boost, recharge, etc that you can get from Alpha important enough on some toons that I see it up there with the utility of those other powers. In some case to me it's more important than those additional powers. But I see your point.

 

(And as I've said I don't think Incarnate powers need any changes at all.)

[Hyperstrike]

40 minutes ago, Troo said:

Makes sense.

So should they work in level 40 content? Again the answer is no, they shouldn't.

I believe folks are asking where should that line then be?

I'm just gonna say I disagree with you.

I feel the current cutoffs work fine.

Will such characters outperform bog standard even-levels?  SURE!

But that's always been true.

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Uh.  How are Alpha and Interface "unable to be turned off"?
Powers ==> Incarnate Abilities ==> Right-Click on Incarnate Ability ==> Select "Clear Slot"

With nothing in the slots, the powers don't exist.

And if you read the rest of the post, the powers being there *but not being used* is the point of those badges I was talking about. Otherwise you could just get them by running the content before getting incarnate powers, which kind of defeats the purpose.

 

The two I mentioned are not click powers. You can choose to have but not use Judgement, for instance. You can't have available but not choose to use Alpha.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Greycat

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Personally, I think if you earned the Alpha it should work at all times similar to Purple IOs.

As much as I might gripe about other things relating to power creep, I've pretty much always agreed with this. Reward for hitting 50 and getting into Incarnates.

 

I'd be... more fine with the other powers working at non-incarnate levels outside of incarnate content (available at the 5 level difference, something like that.) Lower damage/target cap on Judgement, for instance - so you're not outdoing the T9  of a blaster, as an example.

[ABlueThingy]

What if individual players could shut off incarnate powers for sub-50 content via a switch in the options?  As long as it was off you'd get double thread drops.

 

You'd likely see less people spamming Incarnate powers and it wouldn't be "forced" on anyone.

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

And if you read the rest of the post, the powers being there *but not being used* is the point of those badges I was talking about. Otherwise you could just get them by running the content before getting incarnate powers, which kind of defeats the purpose.

 

The two I mentioned are not click powers. You can choose to have but not use Judgement, for instance. You can't have available but not choose to use Alpha.

Should be a simple query.
If

1. present but slot = EMPTY/Open (vs EMPTY/CLOSED), then...

[Greycat]

49 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Should be a simple query.
If

1. present but slot = EMPTY/Open (vs EMPTY/CLOSED), then...

Assuming that's how things are done. And why are you trying to overcomplicate this?

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

Assuming that's how things are done. And why are you trying to overcomplicate this?

As opposed to, what?
Modifying the entire mechanic of how Incarnates works?
Doing it some more to arbitrary badges?

Mine is essentially a basic yes/no query.