Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[PorkTips]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Anecdotally, converting/flipping surpasses all. The only issues preventing folks from making billions is the start-up inf required. (or converters/merits which can be converted into adequate inf easily enough) 

Plus I dont understand flipping. 🙂 That prevents me as well. 🙂

[amagi]

Just now, Sanuske4 said:

Give it time and only the ones around since day 1 will have anything worthy of note, thus shunning anyone interested in joining.

Hey, it's all good for me.  My toons are IOd.  I have 30 or so.  I can melt any down for rerolls.

 

New players are hosed by this nerf, not me.

 

The number of recipes will necessarily drop.   The number of crafted IOs will drop.

 

Crafting and selling an IO I got from merit rewards?  Merit rewards that take more effort to generate?  That'll cost ya.

 

Recipes that I got with less effort?  I was willing to post on the market for under market value to sell more quickly.

[cra119]

At least they're out in the open with this inf change, the drop in Yellow Salvage availability hit the economy without any notification, or any still as far as I know.  I didn't see a problem with farming or AH flipping, as one who did both, I monitored the pricing and except for weekend spikes, they had been stable for months.  With the change to Yellow Salvage, prices are less stable, and availability of certain 'standard' enh became less and less, sometimes down to zero for Sting of the Mant or Mako's.  This was not the behavior of the market in the months prior to Feb patch.  I foresee more instability and availability of enhancements dropping as people stop farming as much, or converting as much.  I guess time will tell, but heavy-handed market manipulation doesn't usually work.

[SwitchFade]

20 minutes ago, mrultimate said:

Once again the little crybabies get their wish. It wasn't hurting anyone. Feels like "YOU WILL PLAY THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO OR ELSE"

Incorrect.

[SwitchFade]

10 minutes ago, Sanuske4 said:

Give it time and only the ones around since day 1 will have anything worthy of note, thus shunning anyone interested in joining.

False, fortunetaly. Income equality and controlling inflation actually make it easier for the lay person to buy.

[Borthouth]

Devs should seed the market if they are going to nerf inf farming. Everyone without a bank roll will struggle to buy anything.

[amagi]

4 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

False, fortunetaly. Income equality and controlling inflation actually make it easier for the lay person to buy.

LOL

 

You literally took away incentive for folks who generate IO recipes and enhancements and think there will be nothing but sunshine and lollipops.

 

Put another way, what happens to non-purple recipes?  Anyone willing to spend 50 reward merits for a Mako, when the market sells it for 2 million crafted?  When they dry up, because farmers stop dropping them on the market for barely above cost (cost of recipe+500K or so for components + cost of crafting - WW commission), what will happen?

Edited March 31, 2020 by amagi

[Zeraphia]

I feel as if those who are above Vet level 99 should be rewarded at this point in some capacity because now there is absolutely no gain to level any more beyond "status" and "look at me I'm vet level 5402942!" I think that there should be at least some form of reward, a continuation of the emp merits would be decidedly helpful especially given the imbalances/changes/nerfs/long-lasting bugs that have been recently associated with said degen bug making it far less effective than other options. Further, many wish they can "redo" their incarnates, helping them out with still giving them some emp merits and some conversions would leave people above vet level 99 feeling they at least have somewhat of a benefit to go beyond it. 

[Herotu]

1 minute ago, Zeraphia said:

I feel as if those who are above Vet level 99 should be rewarded at this point in some capacity because now there is absolutely no gain to level any more beyond "status" and "look at me I'm vet level 5402942!" I think that there should be at least some form of reward, a continuation of the emp merits would be decidedly helpful especially given the imbalances/changes/nerfs/long-lasting bugs that have been recently associated with said degen bug making it far less effective than other options. Further, many wish they can "redo" their incarnates, helping them out with still giving them some emp merits and some conversions would leave people above vet level 99 feeling they at least have somewhat of a benefit to go beyond it. 

How about just delete vet levels? They don't do anything.

[Zeraphia]

Just now, Herotu said:

How about just delete vet levels? They don't do anything.

Vet levels absolutely do something, they allow you to receive emp merit and incarnate thread bonuses. 

[Foxfyre]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Long-term your (slightly smaller amount of) influence earned from normal play will be worth more as there will be far less influence being generated by those level 49 missions (and the related exploit).

While that may be true for real world money, I doubt that will happen in CoH.

 

I imagine prices will increase a bit since players now can't earn as much via gameplay.

Also you really shouldn't disable features that were put in by Paragon Studios.  Leave the base game as it is, please.

 

[Herotu]

Just now, Zeraphia said:

Vet levels absolutely do something, they allow you to receive emp merit and incarnate thread bonuses. 

Okay, how about ...

If character = 50 then add these items to loot pool?

 

I know it's not that simple because they have to consider drop rate and also that changing/adding loot pools could be too difficult, but if drops are the only concern, vet numbers aren't necessary/helpful.

[ForeverLaxx]

In every game I've ever played, attempts at curbing farming have always been met with the same forum vitriol. Those players always say the same things, and they're always thinly veiled attempts at sticking up for "the little man" when that's not their motivations for being upset. In fact, that angle of attack shows a lack of understanding basic economy. No game I've played in all my years gaming has a reduction in farming efficiency become the "doom" the farmers on the forums say it will. This is a reduction, not a removal, after all.

 

Now, are some of those players going to quit being "generous" with their money, or start farming less? Yeah, probably -- reactionary players usually do follow through on this kind of threat. Is it going to impact the market in any meaningful way? Not likely, considering there are many more players out there who will just farm an extra hour than usual to make up the difference, incidentally increasing the amount of drops and offsetting the spiteful.

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same, it seems.

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, Targren said:

Not a fan of the Inf change either, and the fact that the incoming nerf was stealthed is telling.

Patently wrong.  The same dev made sure to post this detail twice so it wouldn't be overlooked.  They understood the drama this would bring and still thought it was the right choice.

 

Also: lol at all of you declaring stuff like how hard this will hit enhancements on the market, etc.  As if the standard AE farm isn't still literally 10-50x as fast of XP as regular content, and a similar gap in influence.

 

Get real.  Things are slightly less ridiculous; you'll be fine.

[SuperDan]

22 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

We're definitely not done when it comes to rewards. And speaking of price caps:

This is actually intentional. Reward Merits don't result in cost inflation for everyone, they increase supply and act as a price capping mechanism for pretty much everything.

 

Tagging this phrasing on to the back end of a massive nerf - one that wasn't mentioned until it was taken live, mind you - makes it feel like the origination of the Regen nerf on live, all the way back in I2-I3. The devs nerfed that set so hard over subsequent updates that it played completely differently and actually underperformed compared to the rest of the sets. Something similar will happen here. You tinker with economies enough, a collapse of some kind will eventually result.

Back on live, when you were told you had to play the way they wanted you to, you just had to take it on the chin. These days you can simply go play on another server.

[Ruin Mage]

4 minutes ago, SuperDan said:

These days you can simply go play on another server.

What a novel idea.

[Kalidor187]

I'm confused what the inf nerf is trying to achieve, though. With all cosmetic items unlocked at creation, free base building, and no money sinks to spend your influence on, what in the game's economy are we trying to fix? Ease of income allows ease of creating and equipping alts. Creating alts and trying new play styles is what retains players. I interpret this change as "you now need to grind more." Why?

[Targren]

9 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Patently wrong.  The same dev made sure to post this detail twice so it wouldn't be overlooked.  They understood the drama this would bring and still thought it was the right choice.

You're wrong, or at least misunderstanding. It was hidden BEFORE this thread, from the beta patch notes. 

 

"The following change was omitted from the beta patch notes due to a related exploit:"  and combined with the dev response  in this thread that admits that the exploit could have been fixed without the nerf, means it could have been in the beta notes with no mention of the exploit. 

 

I'm annoyed by it, as a newer player who counts on my farmer to outfit my alts, but I really don't have any interest in banging on about it like others do. I said my piece and reported my bug.

 

So lets not get catty, shall we?  

Edited March 31, 2020 by Targren
Trimmed quote

[MunkiLord]

Just now, Inflated Donkey said:

This is a huge stealth nerf if not a bug.

 

Between this and inf nerf, it just chips away at the game for me. 

 

As for the thing people are saying about buying power not changing.  That is not the case for Super-packs to get ATOs and Winter IOs. If you don't want to spend merits on them, they now take twice as long to earn.

I have several hundred winter IOs and ATOs sitting in my base. I may cash out in a few months if this does indeed hit the supply.

[Phoenix']

1 hour ago, ArchVileTerror said:

Except there's a flaw in the "worth more" thing . . . the fixed price items in the game are still set to fixed prices.  The reduction to Inf earnt means those items are now -more- expensive.  

When there's an imbalance in the player market, I think it's the market that should be changed, not the means of earning currency.

I agree with that. Maybe a cap price for everything or even standard prices or maybe reseting the prices and lowering them every month or so

[amagi]

Just now, Kalidor187 said:

I'm confused what the inf nerf is trying to achieve, though. With all cosmetic items unlocked at creation, free base building, and no money sinks to spend your influence on, what in the game's economy are we trying to fix? Ease of income allows ease of creating and equipping alts. Creating alts and trying new play styles is what retains players. I interpret this change as "you now need to grind more." Why?

I think this goes back to other observations.

 

They want to discourage farming as a playstyle.  They just don't want to say it.  

[Zeraphia]

6 minutes ago, SuperDan said:

These days you can simply go play on another server.

Look, I'm sorry and I'm really not trying to personally attack you but I despise this line of arguing grotesquely. "Well, if you don't like it, just go live in a different country." Playing a game and which country you live in are obviously different, but the principle that you have friends and communities made on this server and this game are still there. This line of arguing does not bring about any positive changes and it undermines others' opinions. 

[Inflated Donkey]

1 minute ago, Shadeknight said:

What a novel idea.

Yeah! You can go play with the 14 other people on the different servers...

 

 

Homecoming currently has essentially a monopoly on player base so other servers are only a realistic option if you love to solo.

[Foxfyre]

44 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

That's not how economic forces work.

 

Inflation causes every unit of influence to be worth less per unit, so rampant addition of influence to the exomoy devalues each unit of influence. As an example, if 100 people have 100 influence each, 10 people have 1 billion influence each and some shiny new object becomes available, the 100 people with 100 influence will never get it because the top 10 with billions will outbid everyone else and fight amongst themselves for the shiny. This happens routinely

 

Further, income distribution follows a similar trend. If you force all of the influence into only certain people in a given population, those people can afford to pay whatever they want for whatever they want. This has an adverse effect on everyone else causing their buying power to diminish.

 

Finally, and this is for everyone in the thread commenting they will have less inf and can buy less: market Dynamics will ALSO cause prices to lower proportionately. Consider, if you made 100 influences before, and only make 70 now, you will buy just a bit less. Then, those things will not sell as quickly as they did before, which will cause them to be lowered in price to sell again at a more rapid pace. So in effect in the very near-term you will actually pay the exact same "value" for that item.

 

Rampant infaltion and income inequality are not healthy things.

You're expecting the in-game economy to follow normal economic rules.  However you defeat your own premise with the first statement.

"Inflation causes every unit of influence to be worth less per unit, so rampant addition of influence to the exomoy devalues each unit of influence."

If money is devalued, that means thing should cost MORE as each influence is worth less.  However as we've seen everything on the market house currently is essentially dirt cheap - because there's so much of it.

Which means once you restrict the flow of money, the next logical thing to happen is that prices will increase to make up for that lost money flow.

[Ruin Mage]

Just now, Inflated Donkey said:

Yeah! You can go play with the 14 other people on the different servers...

Thunderspy is enjoying 30+ people.
Rebirth is around 10-20, sure.
Cake or Sanctuary are similar numbers, I think. Maybe more maybe less.

 

 

Just now, Inflated Donkey said:

Homecoming currently has essentially a monopoly on player base so other servers are only a realistic option if you love to solo.

And they don't have to cater to anyone in specific. So if you disagree with the changes and they hold fast to them, the other servers exist.