Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[therealtitanman]

Just now, Crysis said:

So the rationale here was to turn off double influence when exemp’ing to “make it fair” for everyone, then why not do the same with the marketplace and simply set a max ceiling on all levels of IO’s, Recipe’s and Salvage?

 

I mean, if your goal is to be fair, then be fair.  Ceiling prices can’t be exceeded, floor prices are still there for the “sell it now” players.  That way we all have the same expected expenditure for every possible build (assuming you buy everything rather than crafting drops, etc).

 

If your goal isn’t a fairness doctrine, then just say it outright: You don’t want to encourage farming as a playstyle.

 

 

goodluck, enjoy cheap IO while it last, expect 100m per io soon

[Pzn]

Just now, therealtitanman said:

goodluck, enjoy cheap IO while it last, expect 100m per io soon

They will never be that expensive as long as reward merits are so easy to get. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by josh1622

[Targren]

2 minutes ago, Radionuclide said:

That they follow the same model as Paragon and most other development studios when they are closing what they consider and exploit? Seriously, adverting an exploit before closing it is not a good model.

Agreed, but on the other hand, they admitted they could have fixed the exploit without the wider nerf, but felt it was "unhealthy for the game" anyway. So they could have kept the exploit under their hat and just announced the wider nerf. 

[amagi]

2 minutes ago, therealtitanman said:

goodluck, enjoy cheap IO while it last, expect 100m per io soon

I don't know about that, but I ain't selling for 1 Inf anymore.

[amagi]

5 minutes ago, Crysis said:

So the rationale here was to turn off double influence when exemp’ing to “make it fair” for everyone, then why not do the same with the marketplace and simply set a max ceiling on all levels of IO’s, Recipe’s and Salvage?

 

I mean, if your goal is to be fair, then be fair.  Ceiling prices can’t be exceeded, floor prices are still there for the “sell it now” players.  That way we all have the same expected expenditure for every possible build (assuming you buy everything rather than crafting drops, etc).

 

If your goal isn’t a fairness doctrine, then just say it outright: You don’t want to encourage farming as a playstyle.

 

 

I think this is right.

[Waypoint]

5 minutes ago, Crysis said:

So the rationale here was to turn off double influence when exemp’ing to “make it fair” for everyone, then why not do the same with the marketplace and simply set a max ceiling on all levels of IO’s, Recipe’s and Salvage?

 

I mean, if your goal is to be fair, then be fair.  Ceiling prices can’t be exceeded, floor prices are still there for the “sell it now” players.  That way we all have the same expected expenditure for every possible build (assuming you buy everything rather than crafting drops, etc).

Nice idea.

[Bionic_Flea]

But Jimmy, why can't I get twice the influence by fighting enemies at a lower level?

[Sanuske4]

6 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

They will never be that expensive as long as reward merits are so easy to get. 

SHHHH DON'T TELL THEM

[Myrmidon]

38 minutes ago, Rejolt said:

I'd be more worried that someone with a few trillion due to AE farming just decides to buy out whole sections of the auction house and list for insane prices.

I have a simple (but likely extremely unpopular) solution for this. Immediately clear the Influence of every character.

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, therealtitanman said:

goodluck, enjoy cheap IO while it last, expect 100m per io soon

That's not how economic forces work.

 

Inflation causes every unit of influence to be worth less per unit, so rampant addition of influence to the exomoy devalues each unit of influence. As an example, if 100 people have 100 influence each, 10 people have 1 billion influence each and some shiny new object becomes available, the 100 people with 100 influence will never get it because the top 10 with billions will outbid everyone else and fight amongst themselves for the shiny. This happens routinely

 

Further, income distribution follows a similar trend. If you force all of the influence into only certain people in a given population, those people can afford to pay whatever they want for whatever they want. This has an adverse effect on everyone else causing their buying power to diminish.

 

Finally, and this is for everyone in the thread commenting they will have less inf and can buy less: market Dynamics will ALSO cause prices to lower proportionately. Consider, if you made 100 influences before, and only make 70 now, you will buy just a bit less. Then, those things will not sell as quickly as they did before, which will cause them to be lowered in price to sell again at a more rapid pace. So in effect in the very near-term you will actually pay the exact same "value" for that item.

 

Rampant infaltion and income inequality are not healthy things.

[Shred Monkey]

5 minutes ago, therealtitanman said:

goodluck, enjoy cheap IO while it last, expect 100m per io soon

The ratio of inf generated to recipe drops is now lower then it was yesterday.  This means the value of the currency goes up causing lower prices, not higher prices.   

 

Or in terms a farmer might understand... if you're need 100M inf, it will take 2x more runs then before but the recipe drops per run is the same.  2x the runs = 2x the recipes = more supply of recipes, not less. 

[Rathulfr]

14 minutes ago, RoboKnight said:

I don't get it. So as an Incarnate with the 99 Month Vet Badge, I should turn XP back on now or I won't get any Inf at all?

If I understand it correctly, you'll still get standard Inf instead of XP if you run with XP disabled.  You just won't get double (or more) Inf.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Display Name]

The menu option for "exp while exemplared" looks ridiculously redundant now that it just says "No Exp."  Since this harmless feature that was hurting no one has been taken away from us too, I will obviously no longer use it.

 

In the past, I have always enabled this feature at level 50 to SLOW my growth and give me a financial incentive to do so.  This was PERFECT for nearly ALL of my stories, 'cuz Incarnates is not really a part of that.

 

The menu option looks ridiculous now.  Can you please remove it so that I don't have to be reminded of the whiners who ruin everyone's fun and interfere with my stories?

 

Edit: Thank you for your hard work!

Edited March 31, 2020 by Display Name

[mrultimate]

55 minutes ago, Heatstroke said:

Not a fan of the influence change. 16 years later and its still the same have vs have not argument. Tired of it back then. Tired of it now. 

Once again the little crybabies get their wish. It wasn't hurting anyone. Feels like "YOU WILL PLAY THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO OR ELSE"

[Yomo Kimyata]

9 minutes ago, Crysis said:

So the rationale here was to turn off double influence when exemp’ing to “make it fair” for everyone, then why not do the same with the marketplace and simply set a max ceiling on all levels of IO’s, Recipe’s and Salvage?

 

I mean, if your goal is to be fair, then be fair.  Ceiling prices can’t be exceeded, floor prices are still there for the “sell it now” players.  That way we all have the same expected expenditure for every possible build (assuming you buy everything rather than crafting drops, etc).

 

If your goal isn’t a fairness doctrine, then just say it outright: You don’t want to encourage farming as a playstyle.

 

 

There already are caps, either hard or soft, on everything except (I think) Hammy-os.  Salvage is seeded, you can buy merits with inf and you can buy everything else with merits. 

 

And there is a hard cap of 2bn on everything, but that's not what I think you were thinking of...

[Jimmy]

9 minutes ago, Crysis said:

So the rationale here was to turn off double influence when exemp’ing to “make it fair” for everyone, then why not do the same with the marketplace and simply set a max ceiling on all levels of IO’s, Recipe’s and Salvage?

 

I mean, if your goal is to be fair, then be fair.  Ceiling prices can’t be exceeded, floor prices are still there for the “sell it now” players.  That way we all have the same expected expenditure for every possible build (assuming you buy everything rather than crafting drops, etc).

 

If your goal isn’t a fairness doctrine, then just say it outright: You don’t want to encourage farming as a playstyle.

 

 

We're definitely not done when it comes to rewards. And speaking of price caps:

7 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

They will never be that expensive as long as reward merits are so easy to get. 

This is actually intentional. Reward Merits don't result in cost inflation for everyone, they increase supply and act as a price capping mechanism for pretty much everything.

[ZeeHero]

TBH I make the vast majority of my inf from merits. the farming change should not affect me.

[Bionic_Flea]

8 minutes ago, Crysis said:

So the rationale here was to turn off double influence when exemp’ing to “make it fair” for everyone, then why not do the same with the marketplace and simply set a max ceiling on all levels of IO’s, Recipe’s and Salvage?

 

I mean, if your goal is to be fair, then be fair.  Ceiling prices can’t be exceeded, floor prices are still there for the “sell it now” players.  That way we all have the same expected expenditure for every possible build (assuming you buy everything rather than crafting drops, etc).

 

If your goal isn’t a fairness doctrine, then just say it outright: You don’t want to encourage farming as a playstyle.

 

 

There are already "caps" in place.  Thousands of pieces of salvage are seeded in the market by the devs at 1 mill rare, 100k uncommon, 10k common.  You will never pay more for those unless you really want to.  IOs are "capped" by their availability via merits.   A merit is worth somewhere between 250,000 and 1 million inf.  How did I come up with those numbers?  You can straight up buy a merit from vendors for 1 million.  And you can trade 1 merit for 3 converters and sell them for about 100k each (frequently lower).  No reasonable player would ever pay more than 100 million for anything, as they could buy it outright for a vendor at that price.  And you'll see that almost nothing sells for more than 25 million. 

 

Remember live when all the PvP procs sold for 2 billion, or more off market?  That will never happen here.

 

[therealtitanman]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

That's not how economic forces work.

 

Inflation causes every unit of influence to be worth less per unit, so rampant addition of influence to the exomoy devalues each unit of influence. As an example, if 100 people have 100 influence each, 10 people have 1 billion influence each and some shiny new object becomes available, the 100 people with 100 influence will never get it because the top 10 with billions will outbid everyone else and fight amongst themselves for the shiny. This happens routinely

 

Further, income distribution follows a similar trend. If you force all of the influence into only certain people in a given population, those people can afford to pay whatever they want for whatever they want. This has an adverse effect on everyone else causing their buying power to diminish.

 

Finally, and this is for everyone in the thread commenting they will have less inf and can buy less: market Dynamics will ALSO cause prices to lower proportionately. Consider, if you made 100 influences before, and only make 70 now, you will buy just a bit less. Then, those things will not sell as quickly as they did before, which will cause them to be lowered in price to sell again at a more rapid pace. So in effect in the very near-term you will actually pay the exact same "value" for that item.

 

Rampant infaltion and income inequality are not healthy things.

dont forget we had flipper on the market, that the main reason market still crashing, ae farm is much more friendly for new player, not old. I didnt spend 1 inf for months. I hope im wrong bout this.

[Rathulfr]

Just now, mrultimate said:

Once again the little crybabies get their wish. It wasn't hurting anyone. Feels like "YOU WILL PLAY THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO OR ELSE"

I believe that it was hurting everyone, by devaluing Inf across the board.  Standard economics: there is too much currency, which makes it less valuable for everyone, and jacking up inflation.  That's why we need Inf sinks in the game, to reduce the supply of currency, increase its value, and control inflation.

[amagi]

This assumes all Inf gained from farming is spent in the market.

[Yomo Kimyata]

47 minutes ago, Rejolt said:

I'd be more worried that someone with a few trillion due to AE farming just decides to buy out whole sections of the auction house and list for insane prices.

But you cannot stop supply.  Someone buys out all the LotG 7.5%?  People will produce more, and will particularly produce more the higher the bids rise.  Recipes will keep dropping, merits will still be earned.  Then the trillionaire gets stuck with listings that are too high.  

[Display Name]

Please, just stop.  We have a wonderful update here, and the have-nots simply turned off another chance to be like us.  I *won't* be giving away money now to new people, random people, etc.

[Sanuske4]

10 minutes ago, mrultimate said:

Once again the little crybabies get their wish. It wasn't hurting anyone. Feels like "YOU WILL PLAY THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO OR ELSE"

Give it time and only the ones around since day 1 will have anything worthy of note, thus shunning anyone interested in joining.

[Ruin Mage]

10 minutes ago, mrultimate said:

Once again the little crybabies get their wish. It wasn't hurting anyone. Feels like "YOU WILL PLAY THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO OR ELSE"

Yikes.

You need to chill.