Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Grouchybeast]

Just now, Uruare said:

Oh boy are some people going to learn some hard lessons about where inf comes from.

 

This is going to be hilarious.

So what do you think the effect is going to be of cutting the amount of inf that comes into the game?

[Rathulfr]

3 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

So what do you think the effect is going to be of cutting the amount of inf that comes into the game?

I think that it will decrease the rate of inflation, and improve the value of the Inf earned.  That's the way it always works, with any currency: less is more.

[MunkiLord]

53 minutes ago, SlimPickens said:

No but its pretty lame compared to farmers who actually produce recipes and influence to spend on the market, flippers only make a resource thats already there more expensive for everyone.

 

I have no respect for people who play the market via flipping and price gouging vs farming and putting things on the market in the first place, so I am resolutely against this change or any change that over values a hoarder of imaginary money over a producer of imaginary money.

 

If sitting around and not pushing buttons and using powers and defeating mobs is "gameplay" which is now clearly more incentivized than actually playing the game and pushing buttons and defeating mobs and generating the fuel that makes the market go in the first place, that does not bode well for long term health of the game.

 

This server is about alts. You get 1000 slots. Anything that makes it more time consuming and more tedious and expensive to create, outfit, and play those alts is something I cannot stand behind as a state of the game concept.

 

[Lines]

16 minutes ago, Uruare said:

Oh boy are some people going to learn some hard lessons about where inf comes from.

 

This is going to be hilarious.

 

If everyone ends up with, like, a million inf tops, the market would still work just fine.

 

Running out of inf isn't something that happens. Having too much is a problem.

[Seed22]

On 4/5/2020 at 5:15 AM, OriginalOgre said:

To the Community,

 

Wow, what an awesome 6 months it has been; in the last 6 months I've helped over 200 characters reach the level cap of 50, I've helped characters achieve accolades, badges, and given Influence to those starting out. I loved this game and its community. I was really happy the game was brought back, and given new light. I was excited to help others. I was excited in getting rewarded for helping others. With my rewards I would , of course help myself so that I could, in turn, pay it forward. Once I was up-to speed in a couple of days I was then able to focus on builds, and what do build require in game money. Before this latest "wonderful" Patch I could make enough money in an hour that would allow me to spec out my farmer  and different toons all together, it was great. Now I make 1/100 of what I do in an hour. I now have to spend more time away from important things like work, sleep , and family to help my COH Homecoming community. I can no longer take an hour break for lunch to help people in the community by making millions of dollars in Influence and giving it back. I now have to invest hours (usually takes about 10-20 hours to make 20 million before I could make that in 1 hour)  to help others now. Those of you who are reading this could say why should I care about this person who's a nobody and who is complaining about this? Or He's never helped me why should i care? 

 

The Reasons,

1. No incentive to get to lvl 50, in the regular game at 50 you could get double influence and no xp, when at a lower level or exemplared (not any more). This feature gave higher level players incentive to stick around a help others because now when they farm through AE mission they make money for them self while helping others get to the same lvl.

2. Free market > Communist Regime, the Developers have not studied economics. when you take away money from the Economy you create a larger gap between high teir players who may have multiple toons who can make more money per hour , and lower level players who are newer or just wanted a game to play with friends.

3. Auction House Exploits, The Richer Will get Richer and the poor stay poor, what i mean is the lack of available income made by every single farmer goes down you loose a large amount of income into the economy so items that where 1-3 million now become worth 15-20 of million, and  the items that where 15-20 million will be worth 70-100 million. (Literally the Devs have created inflation ball that will roll down the hill and kill this game)

4. Less play time, the people who want to make there 20 million an hour are going to create multiple accounts taking up space from others (which is wrong but it will happen)

5. Ruining the integrity of the game again creating inflation, changing the money system is wrong this why the OG Devs didn't like making changes to influence because they where smart enough to realize what a HUGE! impact it is in the game.

6. Not Staying true to the Historic value of the game. When you start to remove features that shipped on the game in 2004 now there should be repercussions, Because they change a core functionality of the game.(Devs you forced my hand, NCSoft this would be the time to appeal and shut it down)

 

 

In closing ive wasted 6 months of my life playing through a game that might as well should be shutdown like whats the point anymore, why should a valuable player who helps other first play anymore, there sure isn't any reason to hit 50 , theres no reason to go past lvl 10 because everything you need to get the most out of your character will either be unobtainium, or so expensive that it makes no sense to entertain the time it takes to the make money. Even if you are blessed by the R&G GODS and you get the enhancement you need it will be more valuable to sell it then craft it which is disgusting. After this one little tiny change in the game COH Homecoming has lost a very valuable player. Good luck to those that will continue in the struggle. To the Devs Good luck with whatever BS you think you are preventing and have fun with the mess you created. 

 

 

 

 

Not that big of a deal my guy, chill. RNGesus isn't even that bad either! Without farming you'll prob get buttloads of purps, and even MORE farming. Sure I hate not getting my double INF, but only because now I can't splurge on 50s at frivolously. "valuable player" yeah....never heard of you. We're ALL valuable players. You're not unique or special in any way here.

[Digirium]

5 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

So what do you think the effect is going to be of cutting the amount of inf that comes into the game?

What to say? Let's have a run:

• Frustration with the developers, if you're a farmer, for them implementing a change impacting their play style - those farmers could either think "Do I trust these developers any more? What further attacks will be made on my play style? Could stuff stop dropping in farms? And should I roll more accounts to run parallel farms to compensate?"
• More converting, clicking and stacking up of enhancements on the AH than before in compensation
• Economy dries up

It's pretty boring waiting for stuff to sell on AH when the queue of buyers disappears.

 

It was actually a very good thing that farmers used to tap in to large influence streams because they spread the wealth to everyone. Now that stream is halved, everyone else will feel the negative effect. Profiteers/marketeers and converter exploiter attempts to gather influence limited more than they were.

 

On the face of it, players will make do and pretend "it's a good change" - the qualified economic experts will continue to post, enjoying the limelight for a moment. Really, the struggle for everyone has increased. I reckon there is a feeling of insecurity in the long term coming to everyone. Especially when discussions are held after the fact, instead of building consent.

[Parabola]

22 minutes ago, Uruare said:

Oh boy are some people going to learn some hard lessons about where inf comes from.

 

This is going to be hilarious.

I don't mind the assertion that you don't like the change because it impacts on your playstyle. I get that and I sympathise. But I just don't understand how anyone can state with a straight face that them printing money is somehow doing me or anyone apart from themselves a favour.

 

I made this point earlier but to reiterate, there is nothing inherently noble about farming. Farmers are not creating wealth for the masses, they aren't earning a wage, they are printing money. The only thing that helps the economy is producing recipes and enhancements, and improving the quality of enhancements for sale. Adding inf to the game is detrimental to everyone but the person producing it.

[Grouchybeast]

24 minutes ago, Digirium said:

 

• More converting, clicking and stacking up of enhancements on the AH than before in compensation
• Economy dries up

 

So...supply of IOs will increase relative to inf, and prices for IOs will fall.

 

That sounds pretty good from the point of view of those hypothetical 'normal players' who are just playing the game and trying to IO out their characters.

[ivanhedgehog]

7 hours ago, Peerless Girl said:

 

I would not be opposed to that. I agree it doesn't get run enough (and parts of it are a pain when it is). Have to be careful though, because it was also speed ran quite a bit back on live, so there's a balance.

 

 

Yup. That's why I either built to account for that, or on characters where it had a worse effect on my "bottom line" ran a separate build for exemplaring. 

Katie was speed ran when you could fail the first mission and continue in a matter of seconds, That cant be done now so it takes a lot longer.

[Digirium]

7 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

So...supply of IOs will increase relative to inf, and prices for IOs will fall.

 

That sounds pretty good from the point of view of those hypothetical 'normal players' who are just playing the game and trying to IO out their characters.

No, because selfishness will increase and it's more likely players will cotton on to hording IO enhancements in base storage for their needs later because the recipes, components and converters are worth more than they get on the AH. What's available in AH will still be higher priced for the big kill - gatherers will get turned off.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Digirium

[Grouchybeast]

16 minutes ago, Digirium said:

No, because selfishness will increase and it's more likely players will cotton on to hording IO enhancements in base storage for their needs later because the recipes, components and converters are worth more than they get on the AH. What's available in AH will still be higher priced for the big kill - gathers will get turned off.

Items on the AH will be higher priced AND people will hoard everything because prices on the AH are too low?  At the same time?

Edited April 6, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[SwitchFade]

4 hours ago, Uruare said:

Well, this is a boring and peculiar change.  

 

I generally enjoy active farming, and that won't be changing, but knowing that the GM's are delighted to have me waste 2x the amount of time doing it in order to fund my character building projects kinda makes me want to not do it.   Or anything, really.   It'll make me, as an avid farmer, take twice as long to farm for inf to fund my builds.  

 

It looks like a solution in search of a problem.    It feels like one of those pointless changes made by someone that basically hates inf farming as a playstyle and slapped a thin excuse about exploits onto it to make it sound authoritative and legitimate.  

 

Doesn't mean a thing if that wasn't the goal or the intention.     You peculiar sods might've thought you were aiming at something else entirely, but you've pretty well killed at least my own interest in farming up inf to fund new builds, which means I won't bother coming up with new builds or even playing as much.

 

Most of my fun was in coming up with builds, then farming up the inf to put them together and burn testing them.   It's a lot more fun to actually put a thing together and feel how it plays than to build it in mids and guess.    Won't be doing that anymore.   Funding new builds just became a monumentally increased time investment.

 

I was happy to spend the time on it that I was spending.   I don't think I'll spend any time on it now though.    This change offers me nothing, but promises to make me take twice as long to fund my adventures.

 

You've put the time cost out of the budget I was willing to allocate on it.

 

And now you get nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can I have your stuff?

[Luminara]

On 4/5/2020 at 8:35 AM, nihilii said:

You are protesting a change that literally curbs inflation.

 

You know... I think that's more succinctly true than anyone has realized.  The people complaining the most aren't unhappy about making less, they're unhappy about the potential for prices to be less.  They want inflation, because the higher prices climb, the more "elite" they envision themselves for being able to afford the most expensive IOs.  They want IOs which cost more than the inf* cap, because having them will make them "important", construe an air of wisdom, knowledge and exceptional capability.

 

For some reason, I find that very amusing.

[SwitchFade]

Dear sweet baby deity.

 

I don't even know which of you to quote, caption or correct. So, this is what those of you who don't know what economic functions are and have no valid evidence and declaring that this change is "ohno badz"

 

ECONOMICS DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

 

Someone post a meme with Charlie Brown on it.

 

 

[Seed22]

On 4/5/2020 at 8:54 AM, Murcielago said:

I really like this implementation and I know I speak for the minority but I think the devs should take this one step further and put a set limit on how many times you can convert an enhancement. Increase scarcity a little bit.

Now that will be a detriment to the economy. You got thunderspy for inefficient old ways, not HC.

[Seed22]

18 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

You know... I think that's more succinctly true than anyone has realized.  The people complaining the most aren't unhappy about making less, they're unhappy about the potential for prices to be less.  They want inflation, because the higher prices climb, the more "elite" they envision themselves for being able to afford the most expensive IOs.  They want IOs which cost more than the inf* cap, because having them will make them "important", construe an air of wisdom, knowledge and exceptional capability.

 

For some reason, I find that very amusing.

It doesnt curb inflation. I mean, inflation cant. Be. curbed. ever. It exist naturally and WILL exist. Now will this create a new equilibrium? In the short run, maybe. Long run, no. It'll be ass for sure because I like farming and getting 100s of millions in two runs, but now I have to do it in 3, eh. But I don't agree it'll tank the market and I know it won't curb inflation or some other outlandish theory that crops up.

[Seed22]

52 minutes ago, parabola said:

I don't mind the assertion that you don't like the change because it impacts on your playstyle. I get that and I sympathise. But I just don't understand how anyone can state with a straight face that them printing money is somehow doing me or anyone apart from themselves a favour.

 

I made this point earlier but to reiterate, there is nothing inherently noble about farming. Farmers are not creating wealth for the masses, they aren't earning a wage, they are printing money. The only thing that helps the economy is producing recipes and enhancements, and improving the quality of enhancements for sale. Adding inf to the game is detrimental to everyone but the person producing it.

This couldnt be more wrong. Most farmers I know of tend to get enough for themselves(usually enough to IO out a new toon they're interested in) then dump the rest for stupid cheap. Farmers are not some evil force. People who complain lack the(and I don't really care who this offends) mental capability to build one. That's a YOU problem, not some evil force. Learn and do better.

[Rathulfr]

9 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

It doesnt curb inflation. I mean, inflation cant. Be. curbed. ever. It exist naturally and WILL exist. Now will this create a new equilibrium? In the short run, maybe. Long run, no. It'll be ass for sure because I like farming and getting 100s of millions in two runs, but now I have to do it in 3, eh. But I don't agree it'll tank the market and I know it won't curb inflation or some other outlandish theory that crops up.

I don't think anyone rational is claiming that it will "curb" (i.e., "stop") inflation; however, it will slow the rate at which inflation occurs naturally.  As you point out, inflation can't stopped, but it can be mitigated over a longer period of time.  If the amount of currency injected into the system is now 50% slower, then the rate of inflation is now 50% slower, too.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Rathulfr

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Seed22 said:

This couldnt be more wrong. Most farmers I know of tend to get enough for themselves(usually enough to IO out a new toon they're interested in) then dump the rest for stupid cheap. Farmers are not some evil force. People who complain lack the(and I don't really care who this offends) mental capability to build one. That's a YOU problem, not some evil force. Learn and do better.

That comment didn't say farmers were an evil force, just that there is nothing inherently noble about it. 

[Peerless Girl]

1 hour ago, Rathulfr said:

Where does Inf come from, daddy?

 

 

Well when a two Infs love each other very much..they get together, and squirt out lots of little baby Infs....

 

41 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

Katie was speed ran when you could fail the first mission and continue in a matter of seconds, That cant be done now so it takes a lot longer.

 

I did not know that, I knew that's how speedruns were done, I didn't know it had been fixed, yeah probably should be looked at then. My guess is they'll be looking at RMs as a whole too.

 

28 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

You know... I think that's more succinctly true than anyone has realized.  The people complaining the most aren't unhappy about making less, they're unhappy about the potential for prices to be less.  They want inflation, because the higher prices climb, the more "elite" they envision themselves for being able to afford the most expensive IOs.  They want IOs which cost more than the inf* cap, because having them will make them "important", construe an air of wisdom, knowledge and exceptional capability.

 

For some reason, I find that very amusing.

 

 

DING DING, we have a winner! This is exactly why some are against this.

[Seed22]

5 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

I don't think anyone rational is claiming that it will "curb" (i.e., "stop") inflation; however, it will slow the rate at which inflation occurs naturally.  As you point out, inflation can't stopped, but it can be mitigated over a longer period of time.  If the amount of currency injected into the system is now 50% slower, then the rate of inflation is now 50% slower, too.

Theoretically sure, but yeah nah it didn't. everything is...pretty much the same, which I guess is a good thing kinda

[Rathulfr]

Just now, Seed22 said:

Theoretically sure, but yeah nah it didn't. everything is...pretty much the same, which I guess is a good thing kinda

If everything is "pretty much the same" after a spike in user pop caused by COVID quarantine (4K concurrent users peak), then inflation has been "curbed" (i.e., mitigated -- not stopped).  I would consider that validation that the devs were right about the exploit and took the appropriate action.

[tidge]

3 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

But why would you waste time doing that by farming in the first place, now, when you can do it easier and much quicker on the beta server?

/agree. I use the beta server to specifically test lvl 50 builds (& respecs). It's nice to see how attack chains work in addition to testing powers. I've burned my fair share of respecs, but sometimes I want to see the plan in action.

 

It looks like the AE missions are also available on the test servers, in case anyone feels more comfortable farming there.

[Ironblade]

29 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

It doesnt curb inflation. I mean, inflation cant. Be. curbed. ever.

Well, this is wrong.  I'm not sure why you would say this.  I THINK you don't actually know the definition of the word 'curb'.  It means 'restrain', not 'eliminate'.

 

Of course, there isn't always inflation.  This is why the word 'deflation' exists.  But I agree that inflation is both normal and desirable.  The only issue is the RATE of inflation - which this change will have a favorable effect on.

[Gremlin]

28 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

It doesnt curb inflation. I mean, inflation cant. Be. curbed. ever. It exist naturally and WILL exist

As I understand it, inflation happens because inf (money) enters the economy faster than it leaves. Do you think that the inf flows can never balance or is there some other reason why you think that inflation is inevitable?