Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Peacemoon said:

Reread the first paragraph you’re quoting 

there are several ways to get rid of currency. I suggested 1 of them. another could be selling the permanent costume from live like the freakshow boss or the carnie mistress for 500 mill each. thats a quick billion gone from each account thats gets them.

[SwitchFade]

6 minutes ago, lemming said:

Disclaimer: Haven't looked at the code, so I expect that this is more complicated than a simple fix, hence why the devs went with the current.

 

Turning off XP should get an influence boost equal to the amount of XP without any boost based on outside factors.  (2xp from the P2W, various day jobs, patrol, etc)

Only item to possibly factor in would be debt reduction.

I'm sorry, but you've just advocated a return to the very problem that results in hyperinflation: a way where one subset of economic participants can dramatically increase the amount of currency in circulation and cause vast inequality in distribution.

 

To be clear, there is no federal reserve in CoH controlling the total amount of currency in circulation, i.e. printing money at a Mint and destroying it when it reaches a bank and has been marked for destruction. Currency here is created AT WILL from nothing. Due to this, there are certain factors that are necessary to control the RATE of inflation. Allowing one set of participants to earn too much currency , too rapidly, causes severe harm by way of rampant inflation.

 

Hard no vote.

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, Gremlin said:

I guess that those who hoard inf are effectively removing it from the economy and therefore reducing inflation.

Since there is no banking system, this would be true-ish.  Not reducing it, but not adding to it either. 

 

The hoarded Inf is not loaned out to others in the COX economy.

 

Its more like hiding cash under the mattress.

 

The hoarders could decide to spend their Inf at any time though, making this not very predictable. 

[Peerless Girl]

3 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

I would not be adverse to another dozen costume slots.

 

Me neither, but that would require unlock methods, as well as a new interface for the costume slot system, since I think we're at the limit to what the original interface can display. That would take some time and dev work to re-do, at minimum. 

[MunkiLord]

35 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

The hoarders could decide to spend their Inf at any time though, making this not very predictable. 

I think it'd be fun to see what happens!

[Haijinx]

Just now, MunkiLord said:

I think it'd be fun to see what happens!

Every time a new powerset, AT, etc comes out the potential is likely there.

[Gremlin]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

Since there is no banking system, this would be true-ish.  Not reducing it, but not adding to it either. 

I also wonder if those who hold a lot of inf are willing to spend more to by any particular IO. I would hazard a guess that it does. @SwitchFadedoes "consumer confidence" leading to increased spending constitute inflation? (I'm a bit out of my depth here.)

[Haijinx]

Just now, Gremlin said:

I also wonder if those who hold a lot of inf are willing to spend more to by any particular IO. I would hazard a guess that it does. @SwitchFadedoes "consumer confidence" leading to increased spending constitute inflation? (I'm a bit out of my depth here.)

That's been my experience as well.

 

After establishing "enough" money for me to get what I want in homecoming, I find I no longer hesitate at spending a few million on this or that unique IO.

 

Not that I have a "lot".  My goal is to keep a balance of 300-500 million, which is enough for me.

[MunkiLord]

4 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

I also wonder if those who hold a lot of inf are willing to spend more to by any particular IO. I would hazard a guess that it does. @SwitchFadedoes "consumer confidence" leading to increased spending constitute inflation? (I'm a bit out of my depth here.)

It's most likely many are. When I am buying for a character, I always pay whatever price I need to get it immediately. I'm not going to bid 200 million for anything, but I'll gladly pay an extra several million over what it would cost if I was being patient.

[Yomo Kimyata]

25 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

I also wonder if those who hold a lot of inf are willing to spend more to by any particular IO. I would hazard a guess that it does. @SwitchFadedoes "consumer confidence" leading to increased spending constitute inflation? (I'm a bit out of my depth here.)

I don't.  I prefer the challenge of coming up with the cheapest way to get something.  If I need 5 LOTG 7.5%, for example, I won't instabid 10mm each.  I won't even put in an 8mm bid.  I'll put in bids on 10x the Damage/Recharge or 10x the Endurance/Recharge and 300 converters.  When my bids get hit, usually within a day, often within an hour, I'll convert them all to LOTG 7.5%, slot 5, sell 5.

[QuiJon]

On 4/8/2020 at 1:18 AM, Gremlin said:

"Barbara" is a farmer with altitis. She's spends inf like water so she's currently broke. She needs a LofG for her new build. She sees that they're currently selling for 9 million but offers 10 million because she wants to get back to farming. After all, 10 million is only 5 minutes of her time. Less if she gets some nice drops.

No cause any smart farmer knows that they likely have gotten any Defense piece to drop and with a few converters can make that yellow red fortune into a LOTG Recharge proc for about 1m in convertor costs. Just as they would when they want a PVP Proc for End or chance of damage etc. IMO farmers are much less likely to be using the Market to IO out their toons for the expensive pieces. Sure we might be buying more common sets but for purples and PVP sets no expensive procs, IMO we craft those easily ourselves off our own recipe and salvage drops. 

[QuiJon]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

It's most likely many are. When I am buying for a character, I always pay whatever price I need to get it immediately. I'm not going to bid 200 million for anything, but I'll gladly pay an extra several million over what it would cost if I was being patient.

Which then drives up the prices. I mean as more people bid for that extra cash. I can commonly see IOs that have a last 5 history that will have like the top 2 at say 4m then one at 2m and then one more at 3m and the lowest at 1. But people posting new items also see that history so they have no encentive to look and say "oh well it should really be about 2m" they look at see "oh many people will spend 4" and they post higher and eventually that history is now full of prices that are like 3.5m and up instead of 2m and down. Boom the market has just been effected and driven up by people with an abundance of influence. 

 

This can not be changed by only addressing 1 aspect of the game that causes the influence piles. The market itself needs to be changed. They need to cap the ultimate price of something to a fair value, and make that an equal value across the board. So no matter if you save merits, sell converters or farm or whatever that item has a top value that allows everyone and equal shot at buying it for an equal amount of effort. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

 

This can not be changed by only addressing 1 aspect of the game that causes the influence piles. The market itself needs to be changed. They need to cap the ultimate price of something to a fair value, and make that an equal value across the board. So no matter if you save merits, sell converters or farm or whatever that item has a top value that allows everyone and equal shot at buying it for an equal amount of effort. 

Wish granted!  That fair price is 100 merits.

[Haijinx]

3 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

The market itself needs to be changed. They need to cap the ultimate price of something to a fair value, and make that an equal value across the board. So no matter if you save merits, sell converters or farm or whatever that item has a top value that allows everyone and equal shot at buying it for an equal amount of effort. 

I'm as Liberal as all get out

 

But this statement scares me ... 

[MunkiLord]

11 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Which then drives up the prices. I mean as more people bid for that extra cash. I can commonly see IOs that have a last 5 history that will have like the top 2 at say 4m then one at 2m and then one more at 3m and the lowest at 1. But people posting new items also see that history so they have no encentive to look and say "oh well it should really be about 2m" they look at see "oh many people will spend 4" and they post higher and eventually that history is now full of prices that are like 3.5m and up instead of 2m and down. Boom the market has just been effected and driven up by people with an abundance of influence. 

First, and I cannot stress this part enough, I do not care one bit if my overbidding raises the prices for other people or not. Just like I don't care that I just gave someone extra influence they can go spend for things they want. Second, if something has adequate supply your scenario isn't going to happen, because there will always be people dumping stuff for low amounts. Almost 100% of my drops are posted for less a million influence, with well over 90% being posted for 1 influence, so this works both ways. Third, 2 million is not a significant sum of influence and it is a meaningless difference in the context of buying crafted enhancements. 

 

11 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

This can not be changed by only addressing 1 aspect of the game that causes the influence piles. The market itself needs to be changed. They need to cap the ultimate price of something to a fair value, and make that an equal value across the board. So no matter if you save merits, sell converters or farm or whatever that item has a top value that allows everyone and equal shot at buying it for an equal amount of effort. 

This is already the case. If people put in the effort, they'll have extra influence sitting around too. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by MunkiLord

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Gremlin said:

I also wonder if those who hold a lot of inf are willing to spend more to by any particular IO. I would hazard a guess that it does. @SwitchFadedoes "consumer confidence" leading to increased spending constitute inflation? (I'm a bit out of my depth here.)

Consumer confidence would be a determinate of demand, meaning that a change would cause a shift in the entire demand curve. What this translates to is demand at every price point would change.

 

Confidence has an odd relationship to demand and price points. If we mean confidence that economic conditions are favorable, then this translates to increased willingness to spend discretionary income at all price points and the curve shifts to the right, for example 

 

If we mean confidence that there will be a change in supply this can be variable. For example, confidence that there will be an oil shortage will cause a price spike as demand surges, as people anticipate future price will be higher. Confidence that there will be surplus will generally lead to less willingness to spend and a gradual reduction in prices.

 

So, confidence, in the way it is generally used, must be qualified as it applies to determinates of demand and supply.

 

Additionally, elasticity of demand will largely predict if demand will fluctuate. For instance, gasoline is very inflexible. It has no direct substitute and is a necessity. At 2, 3 or 10 units of currency per gallon or litre, the change in demand will tend to be inflexible.

 

All this relates to currency in circulation. The chief driver of inflation is the amount of currency in circulation at any given time. If you, I or anyone decide to hold currency and not use it for anything (be aware that a savings account is "using" currency) then yes, this can have a ripple effect on rates of inflation. If we All take our currency and burry it, it's effectively out of circulation.

 

Economists look at a measure that represents the currency that is not active, to measure this. All currency that is causing nay activity is in circulation. So in your bank, in a stock or buying a car is active. In a jar burried in the woods is not active.

[SwitchFade]

41 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Which then drives up the prices. I mean as more people bid for that extra cash. I can commonly see IOs that have a last 5 history that will have like the top 2 at say 4m then one at 2m and then one more at 3m and the lowest at 1. But people posting new items also see that history so they have no encentive to look and say "oh well it should really be about 2m" they look at see "oh many people will spend 4" and they post higher and eventually that history is now full of prices that are like 3.5m and up instead of 2m and down. Boom the market has just been effected and driven up by people with an abundance of influence. 

 

This can not be changed by only addressing 1 aspect of the game that causes the influence piles. The market itself needs to be changed. They need to cap the ultimate price of something to a fair value, and make that an equal value across the board. So no matter if you save merits, sell converters or farm or whatever that item has a top value that allows everyone and equal shot at buying it for an equal amount of effort. 

Price floors and ceilings in most cases cause deadweight loss. They reduce economic surplus for both parties and cause buyers and sellers to leave the market and move elsewhere, reducing overall availability of every good in that market.

 

In some cases they are beneficial, with appropriate measures to induce participation. Alone, they are generally detrimental.

[Hrksd]

So why couldn't we just fix the exploit and leave the ability to gain more INF.  while exemplared even if it is only 25% this is no different than earning double xp till 50 and  if it is the way someone wants to play so be it. so why cant we just fix the exploit and leave the rest alone . So I guess I will have to play like im told and not how I want to. But to be clear no I don't think it is right to use an exploit but at level 50 I feel I earn a little something as a benefit for getting there

[Lockpick]

23 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

I should probably mention again, for posterity's sake, that these factors of economics, supply chain dynamics and financial metrics are what I hold a degree in and my vocation; I'm not just debating opinion here, this is well established mathematical principle...

 How about some stock tips?  Is TSLA a buy?

[MWRuger]

6 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

It's most likely many are. When I am buying for a character, I always pay whatever price I need to get it immediately. I'm not going to bid 200 million for anything, but I'll gladly pay an extra several million over what it would cost if I was being patient.

Same here, it's why I farm and market. I have 70 something alts, intention to level every one and with purples and Winter sets, enhancement boosters and all the fun stuff. I want it now so I buy it.

When I sell, I try and sell below the Buy It Now (BIN) price so it will sell faster. I am sure I have bought some of your stuff and you have bought some of mine. And that's freaking cool.

It's not my fault if people don't understand how to use the market or use converters. I have given away millions and lessons to anyone who wants them. Some get it and some don't.

BUT, any content in the game is designed to be played with SOs. So you don't have to market at all other than to sell your stuff to us marketers for BIN prices.

You want to sell me a purple? I'll buy anyone you have for 14 million, no questions asked. Pure profit to you since you probably punch a lvl 50 COT goon to get it. Or maybe you want to invest a couple of million and craft it and flip to to a Ragnarok. Someone will likely buy it for 24 million.

So to all you market haters out there, your welcome. I was glad to buy your crap and make it into something that someone else wants.

[Peerless Girl]

6 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I'm as Liberal as all get out

 

But this statement scares me ... 

Yup, that's when you know what he *really* wants...then you're afraid. 

[BigGotter]

I really would like to see this whole mess fixed right once and for all. From what I've been reading in these forums, the whole community is divided now on the subject of nerfing influence.  I myself have hardly logged any game time since the patch release, instead I sit in the forums looking, waiting for answers. Where are we headed? How can we fix this so everyone can have fun again?   Putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari will slow it down, but then all you end up with is a fancy looking Prius.

[justicebeliever]

1 hour ago, BigGotter said:

I really would like to see this whole mess fixed right once and for all. From what I've been reading in these forums, the whole community is divided now on the subject of nerfing influence.  I myself have hardly logged any game time since the patch release, instead I sit in the forums looking, waiting for answers. Where are we headed? How can we fix this so everyone can have fun again?   Putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari will slow it down, but then all you end up with is a fancy looking Prius.

What's your suggestion?  

 

FWIW, I don't think the whole community is now, or even been fully represented by these boards.  40+ pages of posts doesn't mean everyone is posting, but rather I wager, a few people posting quite a bit.  It has clearly irritated some people.  Others are just fine with it.  However, I strongly doubt that this has impacted anyone's fun to the degree that they aren't going to play anymore.  I hope it hasn't had that effect on you...

 

BTW - I'd take a fancy looking Prius over my car anyday...I'd modify my Ferrari for bicycle tires, but, alas, it's only a Matchbox Ferrari.

[Rathulfr]

1 hour ago, BigGotter said:

I really would like to see this whole mess fixed right once and for all. From what I've been reading in these forums, the whole community is divided now on the subject of nerfing influence.  I myself have hardly logged any game time since the patch release, instead I sit in the forums looking, waiting for answers. Where are we headed? How can we fix this so everyone can have fun again?   Putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari will slow it down, but then all you end up with is a fancy looking Prius.

The fix is in: the exploit is gone.  Earning influence was not nerfed: earning double influence was nerfed.  Farming for Inf is still profitable: it just isn't twice as profitable as everything else.  Get used to the new normal.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Ironblade]

1 hour ago, BigGotter said:

I really would like to see this whole mess fixed right once and for all. From what I've been reading in these forums, the whole community is divided now on the subject of nerfing influence.  I myself have hardly logged any game time since the patch release, instead I sit in the forums looking, waiting for answers. Where are we headed? How can we fix this so everyone can have fun again?   Putting bicycle tires on a Ferrari will slow it down, but then all you end up with is a fancy looking Prius.

If you're sitting on the sidelines waiting for a resolution, you are very much in the minority.

 

The FORUM community may be divided in their OPINIONS, but they're still playing the game.  Most people are blissfully unaware that any change was made.

 

Where are we headed?  We're there.  How can we fix this?  They already did.