Bonfire: KB to KD or no?

[carroto]

Finally got my first Bonfire user in HC and I'm starting to remember how much I love this power.  I seem to recall seeing mention of people slotting KB to KD IOs in this, supposedly turning it into a pseudo Ice Slick-type power.  I guess I'm curious how well that works.  Is that your preferred use, or do you use it in its natural state?  I like the KB, seeing mobs get rag-dolled.

 

Sometimes mobs run partway through it and get tossed out the other side.  Even so it works pretty well as an area denial power and I'd think that removing the KB would mean that mobs would get through it eventually.  Even if they just take a couple of steps before being knocked down, they'd make it through before long.  I get that it does more damage if mobs stay in it, but it doesn't seem to tick that quickly.  Even when I get mobs caught in a corner with it, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot of damage.

 

So please share your experiences and your preferred use.  Thanks.

[Psyonico]

It's ok for area denial, but the KB->KD is just so worth it.

[nihilii]

KB to KD works incredibly well in Bonfire. I admit I don't pay close attention to what mobs do before I defeat them, but they don't seem able to take a couple steps before falling again. It's more like constant slipping.

[Greycat]

I typically play things with knockback and don't mind it. I don't put the IO in, typically.

 

With bonfire? I put the KB to KD IO in, not because it needs it but because it's *fun.*

[SuperPlyx]

Nothing like standing in the middle of a mob with your Hotfeet  and Imps killing everything around you as they bounce around. Also let's you easily identify the LTs so can throw a single target hold on them till you can get to them. 

I should play my troller more often....

[tidge]

5 hours ago, carroto said:

Finally got my first Bonfire user in HC and I'm starting to remember how much I love this power.  I seem to recall seeing mention of people slotting KB to KD IOs in this, supposedly turning it into a pseudo Ice Slick-type power.  I guess I'm curious how well that works.  Is that your preferred use, or do you use it in its natural state?  I like the KB, seeing mobs get rag-dolled.

Bonfire w/ KB->KD is my preferred use. Whatever the *next* AoE is, I want the enemies in one place.

[Crysis]

Somewhat depends on solo vs. team play, but in almost every situation, I think KB to KD IO in there changes this from a situational power to a Alpha strike power.  It's that big of a game changer.

 

I honestly can't think of times when having it as a KB would beat KD, even for area denial purposes.  Critters on their butts aren't shooting at you any more than critters flying away from you.  The only thing you may gain from KB instead of KD is if you are Ranged Softcapped for DEF.  But even in that case...just cast it from range.

[Coyotedancer]

Having played with Bonfire both ways... I'd say get the KB-to-KD.  It just makes the power useful in so many more situations.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Kult]

realized I have a spot for this -- but never put anything in it!  whats the best thing to make it flip to KD? 

[subbacultchas]

I would not use it myself without the KB to KD proc.

I think its Sudden Acceleration that works best in it Kult. The one from SBB works too, but I'm always iffy about the added chance for KD it brings. I wasnt sure if the proc firing with the natural KD might turn it into KB on occasion.

 

[DougGraves]

On live one of my two main characters was a fire/fire controller.  I ran SBB once and got lucky and got the KB=>KD enhancement.  I put it into bonfire.  It was so ridiculously good I stopped playing the character.  It just made every combat trivial unless the enemy was simply immune to knockback. 

[tidge]

3 hours ago, subbacultchas said:

I would not use it myself without the KB to KD proc.

I think its Sudden Acceleration that works best in it Kult. The one from SBB works too, but I'm always iffy about the added chance for KD it brings. I wasnt sure if the proc firing with the natural KD might turn it into KB on occasion.

 

The Overwhelming Force KB->KD is unique (although it also enhances Damage), so the Sudden Acceleration (Bonfire accepts Knockback sets like Sudden Acceleration) is my recommendation. Save the OF unique for powers that don't otherwise accept KB->KD.

[Black Zot]

34 minutes ago, tidge said:

The Overwhelming Force KB->KD is unique (although it also enhances Damage), so the Sudden Acceleration (Bonfire accepts Knockback sets like Sudden Acceleration) is my recommendation. Save the OF unique for powers that don't otherwise accept KB->KD.

 

Unless of course Bonfire happens to be your only knockback power.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

The Overwhelming Force KB->KD is unique (although it also enhances Damage), so the Sudden Acceleration (Bonfire accepts Knockback sets like Sudden Acceleration) is my recommendation. Save the OF unique for powers that don't otherwise accept KB->KD.

 

23 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

Unless of course Bonfire happens to be your only knockback power.

 

What? Overwhelming Force is Universal Damage and goes in any power that takes damage enhancements.

[subbacultchas]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

The Overwhelming Force KB->KD is unique (although it also enhances Damage), so the Sudden Acceleration (Bonfire accepts Knockback sets like Sudden Acceleration) is my recommendation. Save the OF unique for powers that don't otherwise accept KB->KD.

Solid advice, though I rarely use OF at all.

[Techwright]

I prefer KD.  Either way, they're going down, so might as well control the fall.  Two reasons:

 

1) Melee can continue to reach them without a lot of running around.

2) Should bonfire be used to save a team in trouble, it will not have the risk of flinging opponents next to those teammates who have pulled back (usually the most vulnerable ones at that moment).

Edited May 19, 2020 by Techwright

[Chance Jackson]

16 hours ago, carroto said:

Finally got my first Bonfire user in HC and I'm starting to remember how much I love this power.  I seem to recall seeing mention of people slotting KB to KD IOs in this, supposedly turning it into a pseudo Ice Slick-type power.  I guess I'm curious how well that works.  Is that your preferred use, or do you use it in its natural state?  I like the KB, seeing mobs get rag-dolled.

 

Sometimes mobs run partway through it and get tossed out the other side.  Even so it works pretty well as an area denial power and I'd think that removing the KB would mean that mobs would get through it eventually.  Even if they just take a couple of steps before being knocked down, they'd make it through before long.  I get that it does more damage if mobs stay in it, but it doesn't seem to tick that quickly.  Even when I get mobs caught in a corner with it, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot of damage.

 

So please share your experiences and your preferred use.  Thanks.

The original dev team had to nerf bonfire after they released the first KB to KD that should tell you everything you need to know

[Black Zot]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

 

 

What? Overwhelming Force is Universal Damage and goes in any power that takes damage enhancements.

 

True, but if Bonfire is your only knockback ability, you might as well put your OF set there, if you're using that set at all.  Your options at that point are to:

 

1. Slot the SA proc in Bonfire to corral the knockback and spend the rest of the slots on some damage set or other, while putting OF in another non-knockback power, thereby wasting a slot's worth of set bonuses and part of OF's value, or ...

 

2. Slot the full OF set in Bonfire, get its full benefits, and waste no slots.

[tidge]

10 hours ago, Black Zot said:

 

True, but if Bonfire is your only knockback ability, you might as well put your OF set there, if you're using that set at all.  Your options at that point are to:

 

1. Slot the SA proc in Bonfire to corral the knockback and spend the rest of the slots on some damage set or other, while putting OF in another non-knockback power, thereby wasting a slot's worth of set bonuses and part of OF's value, or ...

 

2. Slot the full OF set in Bonfire, get its full benefits, and waste no slots.

 

It's obvious we are talking past each other. Knockdown is a perfectly good soft-control to use in other powers, such as cones or PBAoE... or an all-time favorite: pets. Many Very Rare (Purple) sets' 6th bonus is a resist bonus, after a large (10%) 5th-piece Global Recharge bonus... I don't think twice about using the 6th potential slot for an off-set piece like the %Knockdown.

 

I use the Overwhelming Force set while leveling up, but to be honest I don't think the 6th set bonus (4 Mag Knockback protection) is worth using all 6 pieces of the set. My toons almost all use a Blessing of the Zephyr (4 Mag Knockback protection) as soon as they get a travel power... if I had to wait to have 6-slots in a power to get KB protection I feel like my leveling build would be... peculiar.

 

In my experience: Bonfire is one of those powers that is best Franken-slotted; it is very proc-friendly.