Could self flagging for pvp in any zone be a thing?

[Bionic_Flea]

7 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

In short, humans can ruin just about anything for everyone else. It does indeed irk me. 

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Zeraphia said:

I think there is some sincere merit to the conversation, maybe creating a replica zone of the PvP zones that has the same PvE events but is non-PvP. So that way Warburg, Siren's Call, RV, Bloody Bay are still there, you can still do their PvE events even in the PvP zones, but say there's a replica of each of the zones that is non-PvP flagged, that way there is no griefing for badgers, PvPers are minimally affected, much of the zones would have the same coding, a lot less harassment inquiries for the devs, etc.? 

 

Just a thought!

Only if any and all rewards are severely reduced in effectiveness. Less risk, less reward.

And the exploration badges are differently named to show you didn't bother going into the real zone. You can have one or the other so you're not "forced' *cough* to go anywhere to make up badge numbers.

Time spent in the PVE zone does not count towards the day jobs.

Those badges, etc. that reward gladiators, don't. (They're not PVE rewards, after all.)

Side missions don't count. (Are you going to buff/debuff mobs? Those are PVP objectives.)

[Oubliette_Red]

5 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

The Switchfade zone.

I thought that the auction house was the SwitchFade zone?

[Frostbiter]

12 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Only if any and all rewards are severely reduced in effectiveness. Less risk, less reward.

And the exploration badges are differently named to show you didn't bother going into the real zone. You can have one or the other so you're not "forced' *cough* to go anywhere to make up badge numbers.

Time spent in the PVE zone does not count towards the day jobs.

Those badges, etc. that reward gladiators, don't. (They're not PVE rewards, after all.)

Side missions don't count. (Are you going to buff/debuff mobs? Those are PVP objectives.)

What's the point of moving badges out of the PvP zones if they're going to be different badges? Why do you want people to have to go into PvP zone for badges?

Edited July 12, 2020 by Frostbiter

[Greycat]

10 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

What's the point of moving badges out of the PvP zones if they're going to be different badges? Why do you want people to have to go into PvP zone for badges?

Re-read what I said. The mechanic already exists (think of how X times the victor changes. You get one badge, not ten.)

Edited July 12, 2020 by Greycat

[Frostbiter]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

Re-read what I said.

Pass. I read it. If you don't wish to answer then don't, but don't try to force anything from me.

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Frostbiter said:

Pass. I read it. If you don't wish to answer then don't, but don't try to force anything from me.

I already did answer. You did not understand, and obviously don't want to.

 

(And "force" anything from you? Really? Nothing is being "forced" from you by suggesting you take a few seconds to re-read something you obviously didn't get the first time.)

Edited July 12, 2020 by Greycat

[Frostbiter]

3 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I already did answer. You did not understand, and obviously don't want to.

You're right about the not understanding part. That's why I asked you a few questions. So I obviously do want to understand why you want those things.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Frostbiter

[Dazl]

If you want the badges or other rewards in the PvP zones, then take your chances. Your suppose to brave heroes or villains right?

 

I don't know what the big deal is anyway, it's not like the PvP zones are very active anyway.

[Oubliette_Red]

As far as opt-in PvP switches are concerned in all zones. I just don't see it as happening. Power functions follow a different set of rules when in PvP zone, now you want the game to calculate on the fly in the open world how it's supposed to function depending on who or what you are targeting at any given moment.

 

Unless of course, you're willing to us powers permanently set to their PvP functions for as long as you are opted in?

[Greycat]

Just now, Frostbiter said:

You're right about the not understanding part. That's why I asked you a few questions. So I obviously do want to understand why you want those those.

Given the answer was (a) in the original post and (b) expanded on in the reply, I'm doubting that.

But just to save you the effort of *scrolling up* for a second:

 

Original comment:

And the exploration badges are differently named to show you didn't bother going into the real zone. You can have one or the other so you're not "forced' *cough* to go anywhere to make up badge numbers.  (Emphasis added.)  

 

Expansion on first explanation:

Re-read what I said. The mechanic already exists (think of how X times the victor changes. You get one badge, not ten.)

 

[Frostbiter]

Just now, Greycat said:

Given the answer was (a) in the original post and (b) expanded on in the reply, I'm doubting that.

But just to save you the effort of *scrolling up* for a second:

 

Original comment:

And the exploration badges are differently named to show you didn't bother going into the real zone. You can have one or the other so you're not "forced' *cough* to go anywhere to make up badge numbers.  (Emphasis added.)  

 

Expansion on first explanation:

Re-read what I said. The mechanic already exists (think of how X times the victor changes. You get one badge, not ten.)

 

So the badges would be slightly different named but you get credit for them both?

[ImpousVileTerror]

@Oubliette_Red, I'm pretty sure it already does change on-the-fly like that.  My Powers certainly seem to be utilizing PvE numbers against NPC enemies in PvP Zones, and PvP numbers against players.

 

Although, I've not brought a Regen-vs-Heal-Over-Time character in to PvP zones to really test that.  THAT could certainly cause some interesting behaviour in regular PvE zones.  Like, will my non-PvP-flagged ally get the Regen if I'm flagged for PvP, or the regular Heal-Over-Time?  What's the code's natural behaviour in that situation?  To merely error out and crash, or will it just robustly pick one of the two and soldier on, or will it apply both?  Neither?  I rather want to see this get tested now . . . 

[Greycat]

7 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

So the badges would be slightly different named but you get credit for them both?

Whether you got the PVP or PVE zone badges, you would have the same number of badges.

If you went to the PVP zone for the badge after getting the PVE badge, the badge would change. (Or not. I'd even give the option of picking which one to keep, if someone liked it as a title.)

You would not be able to get both PVP and PVE badges "combined" (if zone A has 5 and zone A-PVE has 5, and you go to both to collect them all, you end up with 5.)

 

Edit: As far as if it would give merits for exploring both? I'd say yes, just for the time taken, but it's not a big deal to me either way.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Greycat

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

@Oubliette_Red, I'm pretty sure it already does change on-the-fly like that.  My Powers certainly seem to be utilizing PvE numbers against NPC enemies in PvP Zones, and PvP numbers against players.

 

Although, I've not brought a Regen-vs-Heal-Over-Time character in to PvP zones to really test that.  THAT could certainly cause some interesting behaviour in regular PvE zones.  Like, will my non-PvP-flagged ally get the Regen if I'm flagged for PvP, or the regular Heal-Over-Time?  What's the code's natural behaviour in that situation?  To merely error out and crash, or will it just robustly pick one of the two and soldier on, or will it apply both?  Neither?  I rather want to see this get tested now . . . 

... and then there are powersets with status protection and how *that* changes in PVP.

[ImpousVileTerror]

I'mma go test that right now'ish with my Force Field Generator.

(Right after this timed event.)

[Frostbiter]

Just now, Greycat said:

Whether you got the PVP or PVE zone badges, you would have the same number of badges.

If you went to the PVP zone for the badge after getting the PVE badge, the badge would change. (Or not. I'd even give the option of picking which one to keep, if someone liked it as a title.)

You would not be able to get both PVP and PVE badges "combined" (if zone A has 5 and zone A-PVE has 5, and you go to both to collect them all, you end up with 5.)

Sounds like a reasonable solution to me. Thank you for clarifying, not so much for the passive aggression.

[Giovanni Valia]

Going back to the subject of open world opt-in PvP. I doubt it will be added, but I believe the mechanics for PvP outside of the usual zones exist. "Current PvP Mode Disabled". I've heard GMs have the ability to toggle this in-game. I can recall a particular instance someone told me of players attacking another player after a costume contest. It was done comedically of course.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Giovanni Valia

[MTeague]

46 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

What's the point of moving badges out of the PvP zones if they're going to be different badges? Why do you want people to have to go into PvP zone for badges?

• if you hate large scale events like Hamidon, MSR, or iTrials, you never have to run them. ever. But there's certain badges you just won't get.
• If you hate morality missions and don't want to run them, ever, you never have to. But there's certain badges you just won't get.
• If you hate crafting and never want to craft enhancements or fiddle with recipes, you never have to. But there's certain badges you just won't get.
• If you dont' like Ouroborous and flashbacks, you never have to use it, but there's certain badges you just won't get.
• If you don't like PvP and don't ever want to set foot into a PvP zone.....

It's a completely logical progression to me.

You're never forced to enter the zone.

You do get to choose for yourself if the reward is worth it to you, or not.

 

And there's really no shame in saying "it's not worth it to me."

Edited July 13, 2020 by MTeague

[Black Zot]

Please no.  If there's a way to flag for PvP, there's always a way to force other people to flag themselves so you can gank them.

 

OP is asking for a griefing mechanic.  Full stop.

[Frostbiter]

8 minutes ago, MTeague said:

• if you hate large scale events like Hamidon, MSR, or iTrials, you never have to run them. ever. But there's certain badges you just won't get.
• If you hate morality missions and don't want to run them, ever, you never have to. But there's certain badges you just won't get.
• If you hate crafting and never want to craft enhancements or fiddle with recipes, you never have to. But there's certain badges you just won't get.
• If you dont' like Ouroborous and flashbacks, you never have to use it, but there's certain badges you just won't get.
• If you don't like PvP and don't ever want to set foot into a PvP zone.....

It's a completely logical progression to me.

You're never forced to enter the zone.

You do get to choose for yourself if the reward is worth it to you, or not.

 

And there's really no shame in saying "it's not worth it to me."

Exclusivity I can understand and while still selfish, it isn't the bad kind of selfish with it being something to achieve . I don't have any of the PvP badges because it isn't worth it to me. I'm honestly ok with that and PvP badges except for it being a point of player base contention but life is filled with those.

[ImpousVileTerror]

Ok, so, I've not confirmed this to the point of satisfying scientific rigour, but from what I'm seeing . . . 

Level 22 (30) Mercenaries / Traps Mastermind in Siren's Call.

My Poison Trap does approximately 2 seconds of Hold on a Player, but 6 seconds of Hold on NPCs while in PvP Zones.  Tested on actual Minion-rank enemies to confirm.

My Web Grenade is applying about 2.3 seconds of Immobilize to a Player, and 17.99 seconds of Immobilize to NPCs.  Tested on actual Minion-rank enemies to confirm.

My Spec Ops' Web Grenade is applying about 1 second of Immobilize to a Player, and about 17 seconds to NPCs.  Tested et cetera.

My Force Field Generator is providing me with Resistance to Status Effects rather than Protection, regardless of the source of the Status Effect.  The Stun from the Warrior Crusher only lasted about a second and a half on me while under the Generator's bubble, but I definitely got Stunned (where normally the Protection is higher enough to prevent this entirely in PvE content).

 

So . . . yeah.  It's an interesting mixed bag there.  I definitely want to see what would happen with four players:  Two flagged PvE, each teamed with one of two flagged PvP and hostile to one another.  What would happen?  Devs!  Have you conducted any experiments of this nature yet?  What were your findings?

[Zeraphia]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

Only if any and all rewards are severely reduced in effectiveness. Less risk, less reward.

And the exploration badges are differently named to show you didn't bother going into the real zone. You can have one or the other so you're not "forced' *cough* to go anywhere to make up badge numbers.

Time spent in the PVE zone does not count towards the day jobs.

Those badges, etc. that reward gladiators, don't. (They're not PVE rewards, after all.)

Side missions don't count. (Are you going to buff/debuff mobs? Those are PVP objectives.)

Sorry, I disagree! Also never used the word forced.

 

Regardless, you're putting a lot of taxes on badges that are the same amount of work for the badge (certain ones like players killed obviously you'd have to go to an actual PvP zone) minus players griefing you.

 

PvP badges themselves were not well designed. Taking over 100 pillboxes is just flat out annoying, tedious, and long as it is, I really don't think that reducing player-based griefing of pillbox leagues is something that should be dismissed out of the conversation.

 

Further, the objective of rescuing several scientists with horribly designed AI's to retrieve a launch code, which players can grief you horrifically by stealing your codes is extraordinarily annoying, many would even say that this badge is quite possibly the most annoying badge they've ever dealt with.

 

There was a time and a place for this philosophy when PvP was active, and I'm sure very engaging and fun, but all it is now in 2020 is just people griefing others. There are only two servers now in which real PvP usually takes place (Indomitable and sometimes rarely Excelsior) and only in RV does this real form of PvP usually happen. This perspective comes from someone who was very young on live, returned, and sees what these badges and zones have become. 

[GastlyGibus]

22 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Sorry, I disagree! Also never used the word forced.

 

Regardless, you're putting a lot of taxes on badges that are the same amount of work for the badge (certain ones like players killed obviously you'd have to go to an actual PvP zone) minus players griefing you.

 

PvP badges themselves were not well designed. Taking over 100 pillboxes is just flat out annoying, tedious, and long as it is, I really don't think that reducing player-based griefing of pillbox leagues is something that should be dismissed out of the conversation.

 

Further, the objective of rescuing several scientists with horribly designed AI's to retrieve a launch code, which players can grief you horrifically by stealing your codes is extraordinarily annoying, many would even say that this badge is quite possibly the most annoying badge they've ever dealt with.

 

There was a time and a place for this philosophy when PvP was active, and I'm sure very engaging and fun, but all it is now in 2020 is just people griefing others. There are only two servers now in which real PvP usually takes place (Indomitable and sometimes rarely Excelsior) and only in RV does this real form of PvP usually happen. This perspective comes from someone who was very young on live, returned, and sees what these badges and zones have become. 

Why is the zone functioning as intended suddenly "griefing" just because it's less active than before? You're in a PvP zone. Doesn't matter if there's a thousand players in it or just one. You're another player, you've entered the zone on your own volition, you're given several warnings on the fact that you can and most likely will be targeted by enemy players in the zone. How is utilizing game mechanics griefing?

 

It's intended to be that way because the rewards are insanely good. The Warburg nukes and Shivan shards are ridiculously powerful, thus the method of obtaining them is significantly more difficult than normal.

 

I'm going to say no to the suggestion of PvP flagging. The few players who do still engage in PvP would get screwed over even more if the rare player who entered the zone was able to just say "nah man." The badges are the incentive for entering the battle zone; taking those away or being able to bypass the PvP aspect would kill whatever interest in PvP this game had left. 

[Zeraphia]

Just now, GastlyGibus said:

Why is the zone functioning as intended suddenly "griefing" just because it's less active than before? You're in a PvP zone. Doesn't matter if there's a thousand players in it or just one. You're another player, you've entered the zone on your own volition, you're given several warnings on the fact that you can and most likely will be targeted by enemy players in the zone. How is utilizing game mechanics griefing?

Now I agree with you actually in the fact the zone is for PvP, which is why I don't support the OP's suggestion, my take on it to yours is different however.

 

When you see a player who is clearly there for temporary powers/badges and means no harm, does not want to engage in any kind of PvP, but is left with only the choice of never getting said badges or temporary powers or taking the risk of entering the zone, and all the sudden a "gank squad" decides "hey it's time to grief the hell out of these poor people with quadruple moonbeam psi Stalkers." There's a clear difference between the regular intended functioning of the zone versus being a literal asshat. It is confirmed by the devs there is a distinct difference between genuine PvPing, and when asked politely to stop and getting repeatedly griefed and harassed. "Dankz" is a well known person who does things related to this. 

 

As it exists now, there should be no PvE-related benefit to enter a PvP zone. Period. If this wasn't the case, there wouldn't be any issues here.