The Tank Gods. . .

[Lex Talion]

4 hours ago, Xandyr said:

Alright...pardon my ignorance,  but I've a couple of questions. 

 

 When doing the Tank challenge, what exactly is debuffes, and what stats for the enemies are buffed? Anyone have values?

 

 I see a lot have gone with Shield to do the challenge. I'm guessing for the DDR and Shield Charge?

 

 How do you think Rad Armor would do? Or Fire( more damage)?

 

 

Enemies buffed: Accuracy, Damage, Status Resistance ( excl. KB, Terrorize) x1.5

Players debuffed: Accuracy, Damage -0.5, Status Resistance ( excl. KB, Terrorize) +1.0

 

Shield's sustainable DDR is only second to Super Reflexes. Its taunt toggle counters the player's Damage debuff and in combination with Shield's +HP and +Res it counters the enemies' Damage buff. I don't think any armor set is better suited for this challenge. On top of that, though irrelevant on an ITF, its mez protection counters one of the game's two major idiot cards - Terrorize.

 

I've completed the challenge on a Fire/ Tanker and Rad/ is sturdier than Fire/.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Lex Talion

[Lex Talion]

5 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Rad Armor isn't the best for a max level ITF under normal circumstances, let alone under debuff or buffed enemies.

 

With rad having no ddr - once the defense collapses they shred even capped resistances - even through the regen, absorb shield, and heal.

That sounds like DDR is the decisive factor in this context, which it isn't. In case of the ITF it is just one factor, on par with active mitigation or range. In an environment where being insta-killed is a possible and challenge-ending option for every AT it is Resistances and Max HP that carry a toon in the long run.

I beat the challenge with a non-hover blaster using Taser and toe-bombing Trip Mines and none of the tight spots would have played out differently with any amount of DDR for me.

On the other hand I bet the first challenge (without Players Debuffed) with an SR/ Tanker and all that DDR didn't prevent double- or even triple-hits that, without sufficient Max HP and Resistances, would have killed me before I could have reacted.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Lex Talion

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, Lex Talion said:

That sounds like DDR is the decisive factor in this context, which it isn't. In case of the ITF it is just one factor, on par with active mitigation or range. In an environment where being insta-killed is a possible and challenge-ending option for every AT it is Resistances and Max HP that carry a toon in the long run.

I bet the challenge with a non-hover blaster using Taser and toe-bombing Trip Mines and none of the tight spots would have played out differently with any amount of DDR for me.

On the other hand I bet the first challenge (without Players Debuffed) with an SR/ Tanker and all that DDR didn't prevent double- or even triple-hits that, without sufficient Max HP and Resistances, would have killed me before I could have reacted.

DDR is the decisive factor, I honestly had no idea Rad was as weak as it was against debuffing enemies, and I never hung around long enough to find out until I got shreaded a few times on a rad rad tanker when I was pushing too far ahead and got isolated on a double spawn where the sybils were.

 

I had never had any issue with Rad before so I thought it was a bug.  After the TF was over I went back in and camped in a spawn and watched my numbers - without attacking - defense in about 15 seconds goes to -50. Shortly after that the health bar plummets and ends - and thats with 90% res to all but cold.

 

It wasnt a bug unfortunately, but when you apply ageless radial you hang in there with no HP bar movement until the ddr buff weakens, then the above happens again.

 

Thats not saying rad is bad, because against LR and other tasks it's top tier, but it does have a weakness in no ddr in some settings like the ITF.

 

Thats why hybrid sets that have ddr like shield or invul can camp in an ITF spawn indefinitely.  Even my willpower can outlast my rad on spawn camping in the ITF - it has some DDR also combined with insane regen.

 

Never tested it on SR but I would imagine it would be fine.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Infinitum

[Sovera]

As someone who did the challenge with buffed enemies on a Fire Tanker I can say that Barrier carried the day. Doing a spot of kiting to let the debuffs wear off works too. It's not particularly emasculating to mix a bit of strategy instead of just face tanking to the max.

 

DDR is damn good to have, but having damage isn't a bad alternative though. If there is room in a Rad Armor to proc the mini nukes and use them at each spawn it greatly diminishes the sources of debuffs.

 

Even if I say that Barrier carried the day it is only up every two minutes and the last minute it only provides 5%, so I wasn't playing one minute then waiting one minute before popping Barrier and playing another minute. With Fire Armor it was a case of killing lots and fast to diminish the damage and when/if it got too much (no FE to help kill fast, RNG, etc) it was when Barrier got used.

 

 

[Gobbledigook]

RadA is not as good as ShieldD for this ITF but it isn't too bad. You have to work harder and can not just face tank them for long on a RadA Tanker.

 

I built my Rad/SS tanker with really good AoE damage. Footstomp, Rad therapy, dark obliteration and ground zero will thin a pack out quite easily lowering the debuffs you get. Hopefully in a short time you will just have a few bosses to contend with, which RadA can cope with easily. Obviously ShieldD has shield charge also so it is the top set for this. But if you can clear the mobs fast you will survive better and RadA does help with this by bringing extra AoE with procs.

 

My opinion is that ShieldD/SS would be the best choice for a MoITF mobs buffed, player debuffed etc. Extra damage and to hit, very survivable, extra CC with SS and good AoE. You just have to be aware of the rage crashes.

[Bill Z Bubba]

36 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

My opinion is that ShieldD/SS would be the best choice for a MoITF mobs buffed, player debuffed etc.

I was never under the impression that SS's ST damage was anything to write home about. Low ST damage is going to make taking out the computer and 6 AVs quite the long slog.

[jojogladco]

58 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I was never under the impression that SS's ST damage was anything to write home about. Low ST damage is going to make taking out the computer and 6 AVs quite the long slog.

You're right if you're trying to actually use SS but if you're just there to steal Rage, KoB and Foot Stomp to fill in with full buffed Cross Punch, Gloom and Dark Oblit that are proc'ed out then you can hit 2 min Pylon times with SS/SD

[Tsuko]

3 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

RadA is not as good as ShieldD for this ITF but it isn't too bad. You have to work harder and can not just face tank them for long on a RadA Tanker.

 

I built my Rad/SS tanker with really good AoE damage. Footstomp, Rad therapy, dark obliteration and ground zero will thin a pack out quite easily lowering the debuffs you get. Hopefully in a short time you will just have a few bosses to contend with, which RadA can cope with easily. Obviously ShieldD has shield charge also so it is the top set for this. But if you can clear the mobs fast you will survive better and RadA does help with this by bringing extra AoE with procs.

 

My opinion is that ShieldD/SS would be the best choice for a MoITF mobs buffed, player debuffed etc. Extra damage and to hit, very survivable, extra CC with SS and good AoE. You just have to be aware of the rage crashes.

 

1 hour ago, jojogladco said:

You're right if you're trying to actually use SS but if you're just there to steal Rage, KoB and Foot Stomp to fill in with full buffed Cross Punch, Gloom and Dark Oblit that are proc'ed out then you can hit 2 min Pylon times with SS/SD

I fear that the stam management of rage / hasten crashes on SD.SS tanker make the AT not so worth

[Tsuko]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I was never under the impression that SS's ST damage was anything to write home about. Low ST damage is going to make taking out the computer and 6 AVs quite the long slog.

SS is broken OP, if and ONLY if you dont use SS 😛

 

The attacks of the set has been balanced to keep the dps at medium good level with Rage... But you use Aux and Epic / patron attack with, it become crazy. Gloom and Dark Obliteration become a snipe and a Targeted mini nova, Cross Punch has the same dpA than Haymaker but on a cone, and so on.

 

Shield Charge on a SD SS tanker with Musc T4, caped AOO, 2 stack of rage :

 

 

Same parameters, Gloom :

 

[Gobbledigook]

2 hours ago, Tsuko said:

 

I fear that the stam management of rage / hasten crashes on SD.SS tanker make the AT not so worth

I took my Shield/SS into the MoITF and even with the crashes it was still ok. Just took a bit more damage during crash and be prepared make a sharp exit or pop rebirth. Still had around 40%ish defence even with crash with some decent mitigation. The knockdowns of footstomp help a lot foo those 10 seconds though.

 

Still works very well imo.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Tsuko said:

SS is broken OP, if and ONLY if you dont use SS 😛

 

The attacks of the set has been balanced to keep the dps at medium good level with Rage... But you use Aux and Epic / patron attack with, it become crazy. Gloom and Dark Obliteration become a snipe and a Targeted mini nova, Cross Punch has the same dpA than Haymaker but on a cone, and so on.

 

Shield Charge on a SD SS tanker with Musc T4, caped AOO, 2 stack of rage :

 

 

Same parameters, Gloom :

 

I think EM is better single target though. SS is better AoE. But EM is not bad AoE though if you build it for some AoE.

 

Comparing my SS and EM tanker i don't think SS needs a nerf at all, or not by much anyway. Rage could be lowered some and the low damage powers of SS raised a little like Jab.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Tsuko]

2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I think EM is better single target though. SS is better AoE. But EM is not bad AoE though if you build it for some AoE.

 

Comparing my SS and EM tanker i don't think SS needs a nerf at all, or not by much anyway. Rage could be lowered some and the low damage powers of SS raised a little like Jab.

Yeah, but all is about taste, i love my SD EM Tanker, my Rad SS, my Rad EM but i dont even want to try SD SS, i dont feel the AT, and i must certainly be wrong.

 

As for some armor, I love so much my SR stalker but i dont even understand how @Bill Z Bubba do with his SR claw tanker Oo

Same for SD MA, i tried the @Werner build and ... not for me 🙂

 

[Gobbledigook]

22 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

Yeah, but all is about taste, i love my SD EM Tanker, my Rad SS, my Rad EM but i dont even want to try SD SS, i dont feel the AT, and i must certainly be wrong.

 

As for some armor, I love so much my SR stalker but i dont even understand how @Bill Z Bubba do with his SR claw tanker Oo

Same for SD MA, i tried the @Werner build and ... not for me 🙂

 

It's funny, i used to play a SS tanker back on live and loved it, then i played SS when i started back on Homecoming and couldn't get into it for a long while, but the Rad/SS combo actually made me like it again 😀. Yes the Rage crash is a pain and i would take a rage nerf and single stack rage to remove that crash but i still enjoy the set... i think it feels very classic superhero like Superman, hulk etc lol.

 

I do worry what they will do with Rage. I would not like a Build UP like other sets that would be boring. But the new EM gives me hope 😊. As long as it's not a DM fix 😛

Edited December 6, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Bill Z Bubba]

24 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

but i dont even understand how @Bill Z Bubba do with his SR claw tanker Oo

SR is still awesome on tanks. And we can't have claws with shields (which sucks) but SR/Claws is a LOT slower than the SD/EM. Plus all the extra HP that SD grants... and near capped DDR with dblstacked AD... and static DR to build off of.......

 

As for SS, I have one. SS/WP brute named Bunny Fufu. He has spring attack. And no rage. Cuz he hasn't gone full Monty Python yet.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Gobbledigook]

5 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

SR is still awesome on tanks. And we can't have claws with shields (which sucks) but SR/Claws is a LOT slower than the SD/EM. Plus all the extra HP that SD grants... and near capped DDR with dblstacked AD... and static DR to build off of.......

 

As for SS, I have one. SS/WP brute named Bunny Fufu. He has spring attack. And no rage. Cuz he hasn't gone full Monty Python yet.

Is the SS/WP Bunny's only weakness the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch?

Edited December 6, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Is the SS/WP Bunny's only weakness the Holy Handgrenade of Antioch?

Well it SHOULD be.

[Sir Myshkin]

18 hours ago, Xandyr said:

How do you think Rad Armor would do? Or Fire( more damage)?

Rad and Fire armor have both been successfully taken through the challenge under Buffed Enemies (but I don’t think any of us went back on Debuffed Player), and Rad was one of the first sets to try. The trigger points come down to needing full cap resistances, and layering in some additional mitigation like KD’s, -Dam, and -ToHit.

 

my first attempts with no self defense at all were a bit rough because the Cims would send me into the massive negatives for debuff. Going back at it with even just 30% massively changed things both from general avoidance (even at that value), and how having defenses padded against the debuffs taking it away. It’s a lot better to be at 0% Defense rather than -40%. Plus, if I tossed out Darkest Night I could stretch my defensive values further.

 

I haven't bothered going back to do player debuffed (mostly because I’m trying to pull it off on a Storm Defender), but the -ToHit -Dam really wouldn’t have been a concern with Rage stacking on Rad/SS.

 

7 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Low ST damage is going to make taking out the computer and 6 AVs quite the long slog.

I stripped out a good portion of my Rad/SS/Soul’s extra damage performance* when I did this way earlier in favor of some added survival and had absolutely no issues taking out the PC or Rommie and his Goon Squad in a reasonable time.

 

*originally had Musculature and three procs minimum per attack, stripped that down to one for most, two on KO Blow and Foot Stomp due to chasing set bonuses. Double Stacked Rage is absurd, and having Hybrid Assault was added insult to injury.

[Werner]

12 hours ago, Sovera said:

As someone who did the challenge with buffed enemies on a Fire Tanker I can say that Barrier carried the day. Doing a spot of kiting to let the debuffs wear off works too. It's not particularly emasculating to mix a bit of strategy instead of just face tanking to the max.

That’s how I did it on my Dark Tanker too. Well, that and keeping the minions stunned.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Werner

[Tsuko]

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I stripped out a good portion of my Rad/SS/Soul’s extra damage performance* when I did this way earlier in favor of some added survival and had absolutely no issues taking out the PC or Rommie and his Goon Squad in a reasonable time.

 

*originally had Musculature and three procs minimum per attack, stripped that down to one for most, two on KO Blow and Foot Stomp due to chasing set bonuses. Double Stacked Rage is absurd, and having Hybrid Assault was added insult to injury.

If you only keep SS powers, it become very long 🙂

[Tsuko]

16 hours ago, Infinitum said:

DDR is the decisive factor, I honestly had no idea Rad was as weak as it was against debuffing enemies, and I never hung around long enough to find out until I got shreaded a few times on a rad rad tanker when I was pushing too far ahead and got isolated on a double spawn where the sybils were.

 

I had never had any issue with Rad before so I thought it was a bug.  After the TF was over I went back in and camped in a spawn and watched my numbers - without attacking - defense in about 15 seconds goes to -50. Shortly after that the health bar plummets and ends - and thats with 90% res to all but cold.

 

It wasnt a bug unfortunately, but when you apply ageless radial you hang in there with no HP bar movement until the ddr buff weakens, then the above happens again.

 

Thats not saying rad is bad, because against LR and other tasks it's top tier, but it does have a weakness in no ddr in some settings like the ITF.

 

Thats why hybrid sets that have ddr like shield or invul can camp in an ITF spawn indefinitely.  Even my willpower can outlast my rad on spawn camping in the ITF - it has some DDR also combined with insane regen.

 

Never tested it on SR but I would imagine it would be fine.

Do the same with an attack set with a lot more soft control and you will be fine. My last Rad / ss  build even have a 6 sloted hand clap on top of foot stomp 😄

 

Well, the 5 Proc recharge "might" help too 😛

 

The best way to beat DDR ? no defence at all 😄

 

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Tsuko said:

Do the same with an attack set with a lot more soft control and you will be fine. My last Rad / ss  build even have a 6 sloted hand clap on top of foot stomp 😄

 

Well, the 5 Proc recharge "might" help too 😛

 

The best way to beat DDR ? no defence at all 😄

 

Well I eventually figured it out after playing around with incarnates on Beta a few weeks ago, Ageless Radial rotating with the Various Rad Clickys i pretty much could survive indefinitely - however it would get pretty dicey at times.

 

This is my setup - Its not bad but if you let debuffers catch you flat footed it can hurt really bad

 

[Tsuko]

5 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Well I eventually figured it out after playing around with incarnates on Beta a few weeks ago, Ageless Radial rotating with the Various Rad Clickys i pretty much could survive indefinitely - however it would get pretty dicey at times.

 

This is my setup - Its not bad but if you let debuffers catch you flat footed it can hurt really bad

Yep Attack sets and Active mitigation changes all. I can keep Cimérorans on their asses or stun by cycling every 3/4 seconds [Foot stomp] and [Hand clap] (with 6 slots : FF recharge, Sudden -KB and 4 Stun purple IO).

 

With 4 to 5 ff recharge procing constantly, i'm perma hasten with almost no global recharge in the build.

it's always more soft control, more heal/absorb and more full proc'ed Dark Obliteration, Ground Zero, Rad Therapy and Gloom.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Tsuko

[Tsuko]

Another step into the powercreep of Homecoming ! 😄

 

Solo MOITF Maximum Hardcore : No inspirations, Player debuffed, Enemy Buffed and... Just for you all, ONLY AT POWERS : 2h50 and 25 seconds

 

 

 

COME AND GET ME !

 

 

Tanker Shield / Energy Mélée.

• Musculature T4
• Ion jugement T4
• Degen T4
• Banished T4
• Assaut core T4 / mélée resistance T4
• Ageless radial T4 / Rebirth regen T4

Yeah that's a ton of incarnates but being now in the Cosmic Council help me a looottt : cause on top of being adorables human beings, we clear so many itrials and endgame content compare to what i had on Reunion, it's night and day.

 

Having an amazing SG changes the whole game experience, even for a f....g Diva as me 😄

 

So 🙂 it's obviously a specific build for the task 😛 

Only AT power is a good challenge to make a build work. I think this is the step where no tanker AT will have real issues.

I made it to Romu nictus with my Rad / SS tanker with a only at build but without the bump in dps of Gloom / dark obli (carry by rage² and meltdown) my poor tanker was unable to kill Romu nictus because of the essence drain at 3000 hp.

 

I tried with an Invul / EM tanker but same issue, she could stay all day long in front of romulus nictus but with a bit too low neg defence, the essence drain was too much.

 

The 3 first missions was far easier than i could expect. I quickly notice that without tactics i was lacking just a bit of accuracy. Once this issue solved, this was a walk in the park :

 

• M1 : only free the hostages, then rush to the altar, classic.
• M2 : only crystals by abusing cap agro and making the ambush running (with only ninja run, that was not as easy than superspeed but just enough, used mélée T4 core here)
• M3 : Mélée core T4 for the generals, assaut for the AV + console : Killing the 2 av near the console, romu first. then the console. (AOO makes things so easy here, even debuff, EM is really top tier in ST damage)

 

Till i arrive in M4.

 

My "patch" to solve the accuracy was barely enough to cover basic traitors, so Romu Nictus himself... i think i spent more than 50 freaking minutes just to kill him and his balls of hell.

The Nictus were quite easy, by saturating agro, @Werner style, i solo kill the balls with ease (well i had to swap my ageless radial T4 for rebirth regen T4) Auto hit, then healer then sumoner, classic. I had "park" Imperius not far of Romu Nictus and i planned to take him to help me, once the nictus down.

 

But 1) Romu sword spin destroyed imperius and my banished lore 2) if wanted to use 10 targets to push my dps with AOO, Romu was suddenly able to hit a lot more than usual so... i had to kill him 1 vs 1, with the "Player debuffed" setting directly in my face.

 

So i found a new way to use the new Energy focus gimmick : by using the focus on Barrage to stun Romu as much as possible when the lore was up and kitting him just enough to force him to move and not using his sword spin, allowing the banished to destroy him, regen debuffed and stunned by the focus Barrage (under Assaut Core) . God i love the Energy rework 🙂

Edited December 10, 2020 by Tsuko

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

ONLY AT POWERS

Wut. No Tough/Weave? No Gloom? No CJ? Madness, I tells ya.

 

Also gratz!

[Tsuko]

24 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Wut. No Tough/Weave? No Gloom? No CJ? Madness, I tells ya.

 

Also gratz!

thank you 🙂