Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[ScarySai]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

I don't necessarily like the idea of random chances to gain Energy Focus. The issue I see is situations where, for example, you randomly gain focus from Energy Punch. Except, oops, you already had Bone Smasher queued and you used it without meaning to. I know Energy Assault allows this, but I don't think Energy Assault has the issue where one of the possible EF spenders is way, way better than the other options in most scenarios.

I see that possibility, but if the indication was early enough, it could be rewarding for most to slip that extra et in, or set up a stun for more procs if it does happen to bone smasher.

[summers]

11 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

Having actually playtested the powerset, my overall feedback is positive. I like it. But have one slight concern. I feel like only being able to get Energy Focus from Total Focus is a bit limiting. It makes the set feel like a one-trick pony whilst playing it. It's good on paper, but it feels a bit railroaded in practice.

 

My feedback would be to take a leaf out of Rad Melee's book. Specifically: give the other powers in the set a small chance to generate Energy Focus.

 

Here is Rad Melee's powers, plus a list of the "percentage change to make the enemy irradiated"

 

Contaminated Strike - 12%
Radioactive Smash - 23%
Proton Sweep - 21%
Fusion - 100%
Radiation Siphon - 32%
Irradiated Ground - ??%
Devastating Blow - 100%
Atom Smasher - 35%

 

Based on these numbers, I suggest the following Energy Melee powers be given the percentage chances to generate 1 unit of Energy Focus:

Barrage - 12%
Energy Punch - 23%
Bone Smasher - 21%
Build Up - 100%
Whirling Hands - 35%
Total Focus - 100%
Power Crash - 21%

 

This change would help  make the set feel less of a one-trick pony. Curious to hear what @Bill Z Bubba @Troo @Vanden @ScarySai @Super Atom @AerialAssault and everyone else currently playtesting Energy Melee on beta think of the above. (Sorry for tagging. Thread is super busy and don't want this to vanish in the stampede of posts.)

 

I'm not terribly in favour of randomly adding Energy Focus, and the application is so limited that I doubt it will really matter much either. However, if it did go this way, Barrage is almost twice the activation time of Energy Punch so IMO the numbers are around the wrong way. It should have the greater chance.

 

Also I just like Barrage's animation

[Troo]

3 hours ago, Bopper said:

I would suggest taking it out of the Energy Assault playboom. Give the 20% chance to proc Energy Focus if the target is stunned. Its a splash of extra niceness without being too much of a swing in power balance since its a low probability conditional

I kinda figured this is the direction it would go in.

 

Some folks don't like combo mechanic, more folks don't like the random combo mechanic. "Please don't make me stare at the power tray in order to play a set effectively"

 

The bar is so low right now on live Energy Melee, of course any change is a drastic improvement.

 

I know I am repeating this part:  Just give Energy Melee some small changes with the ET nerf reverted? Then go make a new power set however you want.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Troo

[Infinitum]

22 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

Having actually playtested the powerset, my overall feedback is positive. I like it. But have one slight concern. I feel like only being able to get Energy Focus from Total Focus is a bit limiting. It makes the set feel like a one-trick pony whilst playing it. It's good on paper, but it feels a bit railroaded in practice.

 

My feedback would be to take a leaf out of Rad Melee's book. Specifically: give the other powers in the set a small chance to generate Energy Focus.

 

Here is Rad Melee's powers, plus a list of the "percentage change to make the enemy irradiated"

 

Contaminated Strike - 12%
Radioactive Smash - 23%
Proton Sweep - 21%
Fusion - 100%
Radiation Siphon - 32%
Irradiated Ground - ??%
Devastating Blow - 100%
Atom Smasher - 35%

 

Based on these numbers, I suggest the following Energy Melee powers be given the percentage chances to generate 1 unit of Energy Focus:

Barrage - 12%
Energy Punch - 23%
Bone Smasher - 21%
Build Up - 100%
Whirling Hands - 35%
Total Focus - 100%
Power Crash - 21%

 

This change would help  make the set feel less of a one-trick pony. Curious to hear what @Bill Z Bubba @Troo @Vanden @ScarySai @Super Atom @AerialAssault and everyone else currently playtesting Energy Melee think of the above.

I wouldnt be opposed to this on the stipulation it wouldn't sacrifice the current dmg output of the set, cause all things being equal the set performs great.

[M3z]

First off this makes energy melee WAAAAY better than its current iteration. That said, is there a solid reason why total focus doesn't full crit lol? @Powerhouse I can sort of understand why energy transfer doesn't crit given now you can cut the animation down and its high base damage but shouldn't total focus do a full crit?

 

Can TF+ET even do anywhere close to the damage of an insight greater psi blade crit? I've done over 1400 before, with a 2.5 second cast. You can argue you need to get insight to do large damage (greater psi blade crits without insight damage still does huge numbers) but you also still need to total focus first before getting the fast ET animation.

 

 

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

I kinda figure this is the direction it would go in.

 

Some folks don't like combo mechanic, more folks don't like the random combo mechanic. "Please don't make me stare at the power tray in order to play a set effectively"

You can play this set effectively without any of the Energy Focus mechanics. Energy Focus is just icing on the cake. 

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

I kinda figure this is the direction it would go in.

 

Some folks don't like combo mechanic, more folks don't like the random combo mechanic. "Please don't make me stare at the power tray in order to play a set effectively"

Ok, you are using hyperbole to overstate your perceived difficulty of the changes.

 

It's not that hard.

[AerialAssault]

22 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

Having actually playtested the powerset, my overall feedback is positive. I like it. But have one slight concern. I feel like only being able to get Energy Focus from Total Focus is a bit limiting. It makes the set feel like a one-trick pony whilst playing it. It's good on paper, but it feels a bit railroaded in practice.

 

My feedback would be to take a leaf out of Rad Melee's book. Specifically: give the other powers in the set a small chance to generate Energy Focus.

 

Here is Rad Melee's powers, plus a list of the "percentage change to make the enemy irradiated"

 

Contaminated Strike - 12%
Radioactive Smash - 23%
Proton Sweep - 21%
Fusion - 100%
Radiation Siphon - 32%
Irradiated Ground - ??%
Devastating Blow - 100%
Atom Smasher - 35%

 

Based on these numbers, I suggest the following Energy Melee powers be given the percentage chances to generate 1 unit of Energy Focus:

Barrage - 12%
Energy Punch - 23%
Bone Smasher - 21%
Build Up - 100%
Whirling Hands - 35%
Total Focus - 100%
Power Crash - 21%

 

This change would help  make the set feel less of a one-trick pony. Curious to hear what @Bill Z Bubba @Troo @Vanden @ScarySai @Super Atom @AerialAssault and everyone else currently playtesting Energy Melee on beta think of the above. (Sorry for tagging. Thread is super busy and don't want this to vanish in the stampede of posts.)

I really get the sentiment that so much of the set mechanic relies on Total Focus. I feel like my character should have Super Jump as an inherent with the amount of leaping that they do.

 

That being said, I felt that I could completely ignore Energy Focus if I wanted to, and the set would still perform well.

 

I want to point something out here, that aside from the instant Energy Transfer, I, personally, feel that Power Crash is the biggest change, really. Energy Melee really suffered for not having at least two reliable AoEs in large mobs of enemies. I mean, sure, you can basically OHKO Minions & Lieutenants, but if you have one or two mobs of 10+ jumping up and down on you, it's a lot to juggle. Being able to use Whirling Hands & Power Crash to thin the herd down so that I can remove a Boss from the game gives me the breathing room I'd wanted for so long with Energy Melee.

 

But, since this is Feedback, I wouldn't be opposed to say, Barrage & Energy Punch having a chance to trigger Energy Focus. That's why it's on Beta, after all.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Nuke Leah said:

You can play a mastermind effectively without taking any of the pets.  That doesn't make pets icing on the cake, that just makes the game a very easy, flexible game.  If it is just icing on the cake, why is it such a bad idea to NOT do this and just bake all of that mechanic into the powers without needing the combo?

It doesn't really matter how hard it is, nothing in this game is hard.  It's inconvenient.  Why is inconvenience as a mechanic a good thing?  Why force power picks for efficiency?  Why constrain freedom of attack cycle choices?

 

Fun is not a finite resource.  You don't have to take away someone else's fun just to make room to add other fun.  There is all the room for all the fun.

Its not even inconvenient when its a power you are going to use anyway.

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

And that's why being forced into tf/ep/et/bs/ep is the new normal.

 

Notice the word forced.

Hey man, every melee set has ideal attack chains.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Nuke Leah said:

You can play a mastermind effectively without taking any of the pets.  That doesn't make pets icing on the cake, that just makes the game a very easy, flexible game.  If it is just icing on the cake, why is it such a bad idea to NOT do this and just bake all of that mechanic into the powers without needing the combo?

It doesn't really matter how hard it is, nothing in this game is hard.  It's inconvenient.  Why is inconvenience as a mechanic a good thing?  Why force power picks for efficiency?  Why constrain freedom of attack cycle choices?

 

Fun is not a finite resource.  You don't have to take away someone else's fun just to make room to add other fun.  There is all the room for all the fun.

It's not the same, the Mastermind isn't balanced around not having pets. EF is additional stats, not missing stats.

 

There has always been an optimal rotation, just because it now gives visual clues as to what that rotation is doesn't mean it wasn't there before. You can still use whatever power you'd like in any given situation. Looking at your bar to see them isn't much different from looking for hasten, looking for heals/endurances/bu/epics etc. You're always looking -anyway- so it doesn't change much.

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, Nuke Leah said:

You can play a mastermind effectively without taking any of the pets. 

Pet-less masterminds are not equivalent to energy focus-less EM. You can remove the energy focus mechanic completely from the set and it will be a half way decent set with just the raw numbers it has now.

[Troo]

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Ok, you are using hyperbole to overstate your perceived difficulty of the changes.

 

It's not that hard.

Huh? What are you talking about?!

 

Some folks don't look at the power tray as they play. Is that the overstatement?

Some folks don't like combo mechanics. Is that the overstatement?

Additional folks dislike random combo mechanics. Is that the overstatement?

 

Seriously, where the heck is the over statement that you want to call out. Where?!

Is 'some' too large of a sample size for you? Read the thread, it's only been a day and a half and people other than myself have said similar.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Troo

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Replacement said:

Hey man, every melee set has ideal attack chains.

Thats the thing about the objections I don't get, the words have to and essential are being thrown about like gospel truth.

 

But even without any of the optimization from top to bottom the set is improved.

[Infinitum]

Just now, Troo said:

Huh? What are you talking about?

 

Some folks don't look at the power tray as they play. Is that the overstatement?

Some folks don't like combo mechanics. Is that the overstatement?

More folks dislike random combo mechanics than dislike combo mechanics. Is that the overstatement?

 

Seriously, where the heck is the over statement that you want to call out. Where?!

Is 'some' too large of a sample size for you? Read the thread, it's only been a day and a half and people other than myself have said similar.

You don't have to look at the power tray to play this, its not that hard.  LoL if it is that hard for you original EM was too hard for you too.

[Super Atom]

5 minutes ago, Nuke Leah said:

It's hyperbole.  The change is a change but a lot of people don't seem to be questioning why.  What's the point of making it a combo mechanic?  Why is this a thing at all?  What is the uplside?

To be fair, It's not a combo mechanic. It's a proc mechanic. The abilities do not do less damage for not following it technically. you can still have EF and use power crash on two targets and it won't do much different. Only in large scale situations will you see much of a difference. The 'mechanic' as it were is just a simplified way to improve things without completely reworking a set, though some feel they have i personally feel this was an easier and more fun solution.

 

and a decently passive solution. It's not like DB or STJ, you don't lose out big time for not following it in the grand scheme of things.

 

Have you tested it out yet in team play and solo at 50?

Edited October 25, 2020 by Super Atom

[summers]

I'm sorry that some people think using TF then EF is too much for them, but I'd rather that not let this stop a great change coming through.

[Troo]

Just now, Infinitum said:

You don't have to look at the power tray to play this, its not that hard.  LoL if it is that hard for you original EM was too hard for you too.

Where is the overstatement?

 

[Infinitum]

14 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

I know I am repeating this part:  Just give Energy Melee some small changes with the ET nerf reverted? Then go make a new power set however you want.

You... Are.... Getting all that.

 

Its so shortsighted to want to give up the rest of what this gives to have something that wouldnt even make the set relevant.

 

When what you want is there, its just not exactly what you want.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

Where is the overstatement?

 

Your the one that said it, go back and read.

[Troo]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

Your the one that said it, go back and read.

Yep that's right there was no overstatement. Keep trolling..

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Troo

[Super Atom]

Just now, Nuke Leah said:

Okay, you're right, it's not a combo mechanic, it's a proc mechanic.  The question still stands though, what's the upside of making it a proc mechanic when they could have just made the powers slightly better in a reasonable split of the two without including it (proc)?  Why is this more beneficial?  What makes it better than just making those powers work better on their own?

The problem stems from a over-performance issue. If you just baked EF into all the powers, the sets would be above it's sister sets. It's an easy self balancing juggle of a proc based system that you personally need to decide what at any given time you want to see the highest improvement in. Have you tried it out yet? I thoroughly encourage testing it out in missions and stuff before judging it harshly, unless you have in which case disregard

[Infinitum]

18 minutes ago, M3z said:

Can TF+ET even do anywhere close to the damage of an insight greater psi blade crit? I've done over 1400 before, with a 2.5 second cast. You can argue you need to get insight to do large damage (greater psi blade crits without insight damage still does huge numbers) but you also still need to total focus first before getting the fast ET animation.

Yes ive gotten 1100+ on TF and 1400+ on ET  on my fire EM tank.

[summers]

If anything I'd like the Energy Focus mechanic to have more purpose. Right now it's very arbitrary - you will seemingly always TF -> ET while it'd be nice to have a more meaningful choice.

[Infinitum]

3 minutes ago, Troo said:

Yep that's right there was no overstatement. Keep trolling..

 

Keep staring at your power tray to see when Build up is avail.