Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

Hew · November 20, 2020

Both my tanks run fold space, but unlike fa/dm, i cant just burn it all down at once. It is difficult to track hard targets.

Is there a way to do something like "target next boss"?

Troo · November 20, 2020

Thanks Bopper, this shows that even at lower levels and with less optimum attack chains performance is improved.

7 hours ago, Bopper said:

New E.M. chain #3: ET(slow) > BS > TF > EP > BS > ET (fast)

If this chain looks familiar, it's because it's basically the same chain as the Original E.M. You fit 2 ETs, 2 BS, 1 EP and 1 TF into a single Build Up window.

The positives of this chain: it does more damage than the Original E.M. chain (17.12 versus 16.96, thanks to the EP damage buff). It has a higher DPA than the original E.M. when the gap exists and it only requires +108.99% recharge slotted into Bone Smasher to achieve a gapless chain.

It also helps show why it is broken to have a full time fast Energy Transfer (fET) exist with the new faster Total Focus (fTF), especially for Stalkers who would have BU > AS > fET > fTF > BS > fAS possibilities.

Jacke · November 20, 2020

22 minutes ago, Hew said:

Is there a way to do something like "target next boss"?

Unfortunately not that simple, but somewhat possible.

I use Tray 9 for tab targetting macros with these entries in my keybinds file.

SHIFT+`         "powexectray 7 9"
SHIFT+TAB       "powexectray 8 9"
`               "powexectray 9 9"
TAB             "powexectray 10 9"

Here's a standard tab targeting macro I use. It is installing into Slot 9 Tray 9 and normally invoked with the ` key.

/macroslot 88 xBug "targetenemynext$$targetcustomnext Embal$$targetcustomnext Engin$$targetcustomnext Surge$$targetcustomnext Genera$$targetcustomnext Trans$$targetcustomnext Communi$$targetcustomnext Porta$$targetcustomnext Mage$$targetcustomnext Sapper"

And this one is in Slot 10, invoked with key TAB.

/macroslot 89 xQV "targetenemynext$$targetcustomnext enemy alive quantum$$targetcustomnext enemy alive void"

Note that the long one doesn't have the 'enemy' or 'alive' fields as the whole command can't be greater than 255 characters or the macro will be silently broken and can't be fixed either with editting.

Anyhoo, I hit TAB and whichever beastie matches the rightmost targetcustomnext command gets targetted. Hit ` and whatever irritant beastie gets targetted.

Want different mobs targetted, write up the macro, create it, and swap the new macros into TAB and '.

For a given enemy group, you can customize a macro to fit that groups' lieutenants and bosses. Here's one I have from way back for Freakshow:

/macro xFrk "targetenemynext$$targetcustomnext enemy alive Tank$$targetcustomnext enemy alive Juicer$$targetcustomnext enemy alive Stunner"

I've got others, but many broke the max-255 character rule and I have to redesign them or they don't work.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Jacke

Sovera · November 20, 2020

4 hours ago, Hew said:

Both my tanks run fold space, but unlike fa/dm, i cant just burn it all down at once. It is difficult to track hard targets.

Is there a way to do something like "target next boss"?

Easiest way is to input this in-game:

/optionset ShowVillainName 1
/optionset ShowVillainBars 1

Maxzero · November 20, 2020

On 11/20/2020 at 2:14 AM, Gibson99 said:

Balance is overrated. I much prefer awesomeness.

Post is from weeks ago.

EM will be king of ST no doubt but its AoE is nothing special and is the weakest defensively.

Got no issue with it now.

Gibson99 · November 20, 2020

18 hours ago, M3z said:

Did some more testing v.s. a min/maxed pvp blaster build (fire/plant) with my min/maxed em/bio stalker, here are the numbers in pvp as to why stalkers could definitely use a bump in damage.

Typical fire/plant attack chain

(Anyone can hit this attack chain 100% of the time)

build up->blaze->strangler->blazing bolt

Blaze: 384 damage (5 sec cooldown 100 ft+ Ranged)

Strangler: 676 damage (10 sec cooldown 80ft+ ranged)

Blazing Bolt 661 damage (Insta cast ranged SNIPE 5 sec cooldown 100ft+ range)

TOTAL: 1721 damage at 80 ft+ range (vs bio stalker)

Typical EM/Bio attack chain

(You will be lucky to get 2 attacks off against a breathing human being)

Build up->total focus(mini crit)(into rehide)->energy transfer(mini crit)->quick cast assassin strike

Total Focus CRIT: 518 dmg(melee 10 sec CD)

Energy Transfer CRIT: 696 (melee 6 sec CD)

Assassin Strike Fast Cast: 441 (melee 7 sec CD)

TOTAL: 1,655 at 8ft range (vs plant blaster)

Notes on my em/bio build: I am running with 77% bonus damage

Conclusion:

I'm not here to cry about blasters, I'm just giving an example of what you will have to contend with as a stalker and why they will need a bit more to be able to stand a chance

"What about AS?" In serious 8s scenarios, it can be 3-4-5 spikes before you are able to land an AS, especially given the jaunt meta probably even less, in zones you get an AS off but rarely can you get a follow up other than zapp/moonbeam, the damage equates to around 1100-1300 with a BU+AS+snipe.

Blaster attack chains which only require you to be within 80 ft of a target do more than a stalker critting multiple times in an attack chain that require you to be within 8ft of target.

Blazing bolt does the same damage roughly as energy transfer mini critting at literally 10x the range and a lower cooldown and with zero prerequisites(you have to total focus crit to get fast animation!!).

This was all within build up as well, outside of build up the stalker's numbers were pretty abysmal

Other hilarious notes:
Blaster has 1847 HP+absorb shield(in new patch at least 100-200 hp??)+40% res to ALL
Stalker has 1971 HP with some res/def (ranging from 10-30%) (bio armor)

This means, given the numbers above a blaster CAN and WILL stand there and out scrap you as a stalker from RANGE

Anyway I know there are like 2 people on this planet who care about pvping with stalkers but I get really annoyed when I see total focus doing like 250 damage outside of build up.

If other sets can get pvp specific changes, give EM pvp specific changes because as you can see, for how impossibly hard it is to get into melee to begin with you are given less a reward than a blaster attacking at 10x your range on a build that makes immense sacrifices in survivability for damage.

To sum all this up: "Blasters are for Noobs" haha

And imo, Jaunt needs to go in PvP Zones.

Wavicle · November 20, 2020

32 minutes ago, Gibson99 said:

To sum all this up: "Blasters are for Noobs" haha

And imo, Jaunt needs to go in PvP Zones.

Does that mean you also think no Combat Teleport in PvP zones?

Jacke · November 20, 2020

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Easiest way is to input this in-game:

/optionset ShowVillainName 1
/optionset ShowVillainBars 1

I think I've adjusted my options to always show that info over the mobs. Still can be very hard to target just the bosses or any particular mob out of a crowd. Usually an appropriate TAB targetting macro (as I showed above) is needed to quickly lock onto the right mobs even in moderately fast play.

EDIT: As @Sovera points out, the targetting macro can't just have ranks but needs a partial name to match a mob to to target it. Makes things tricky.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Jacke

Sovera · November 20, 2020

Just now, Jacke said:

I think I've adjusted my options to always show that info over the mobs. Still can be very hard to target just the bosses or any particular mob out of a crowd. Usually an appropriate TAB targetting macro (as I showed above) is needed to quickly lock onto the right mobs even in moderately fast play.

No such thing that I know of unfortunately. It has been asked in the past but we still need to use actual names in titles, not ranks.

Jacke · November 20, 2020

Just now, Sovera said:

No such thing that I know of unfortunately. It has been asked in the past but we still need to use actual names in titles, not ranks.

Yeah, partial name matching has to be used. Means you can target onto particular bothersome Lts and Bosses, not all of them. But also means the macro has to be tailored to each enemy group or a particular Task Force, etc. And with some you struggle to keep it under 255 characters. Quickly gets to be a lot of macros. Having a targetnext* command that would allow selection by rank and special function (sapping, healing, engineering, exploding) would help. Some of those functions are in the names right now, but not all.

siolfir · November 20, 2020

While it started here and might be useful for people, the target macro assistance is at best tangential if not completely off-topic since it's not specific to the set and/or changes made to it, so if it's going to continue should probably go to PMs or another thread.

Although honestly I think this thread has pretty much run its course already - the PvP numbers brought up are the closest to relevant but impact melee as a whole more than this set in specific, although if there was a split for full damage criticals on Total Focus and Energy Transfer in PvP-only it would certainly make the set significantly stronger in PvP.

M3z · November 20, 2020

48 minutes ago, siolfir said:

While it started here and might be useful for people, the target macro assistance is at best tangential if not completely off-topic since it's not specific to the set and/or changes made to it, so if it's going to continue should probably go to PMs or another thread.

Although honestly I think this thread has pretty much run its course already - the PvP numbers brought up are the closest to relevant but impact melee as a whole more than this set in specific, although if there was a split for full damage criticals on Total Focus and Energy Transfer in PvP-only it would certainly make the set significantly stronger in PvP.

Melee as a whole is just absolute trash, won't go off on that tangent here. But if I can get changes for energy melee to be functional on release for stalkers(like people in the pvp community ALREADY HAVE DONE for trick arrow), stalkers will go from having 1 functional set for pvp to 2. I love the EM changes but as you can see the numbers are still pretty much a joke. Blasters basically get 2 ranged energy transfers worth of damage in snipe (a snipe for god sakes) and strangler. Also the numbers I posted are mini critted ET, without mini crit, ET literally does less damage than blaster range attacks.

What I'm saying is, if you manage to get in melee in pvp, allow the melee AT to do some damage. I mean if blasters, which are tankier(than this particular stalker build) and have 10x more range than I do, can do more damage than me, what is the point?( Give stalkers partially unresisted crits or greater crit damage on ET/TF something. When I first saw the total focus damage I almost thought it was bugged it was so low.

Edit: this isn't really directed towards you siolfir, more just ranting lol

Edited November 20, 2020 by M3z

WindDemon21 · November 21, 2020

21 hours ago, M3z said:

Blaster has 1847 HP+absorb shield(in new patch at least 100-200 hp??)+40% res to ALL
Stalker has 1971 HP with some res/def (ranging from 10-30%) (bio armor)

Why does the blaster have 40% resistance to all? Are you not using any mez on the blaster? Are you not using your absorb shield? Are you not considering other secondaries that do better in a single target fight?

aethereal · November 21, 2020

4 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Why does the blaster have 40% resistance to all? Are you not using any mez on the blaster? Are you not using your absorb shield? Are you not considering other secondaries that do better in a single target fight?

Blasters get 40% resist-all in PVP.

M3z · November 21, 2020

5 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Why does the blaster have 40% resistance to all? Are you not using any mez on the blaster? Are you not using your absorb shield? Are you not considering other secondaries that do better in a single target fight?

1. All "squishy" (I don't think blasters are squishies at this point but they are considered a "squishy") ATs get a flat 40% base res to everything in pvp with their epic power pool shield(without it they get 30%+). Other ATs including melee do not, they get whatever res they get from their defense/resistance set including any holes/deficiencies/weaknesses inherent in that set. This leads to certain scenarios where yes squishy ATs are tankier than melees 🙂

2. In pvp, total focus does base 2 second stun duration(every AT in the game aside from controllers/dom have base 2 second mez durations ON ALL MEZES, controllers/doms get base 4 seconds), after the duration of that stun runs out the target is immune to all CC (except weird mezzes like confuse I think) for 12 seconds. The 2 second stun duration is reduced by any mez protections a target has. Even the 2 second stun duration is barely enough time to get in close enough for another attack, especially if the target has jaunted or is coming down from a jump. This is somewhat more manageable with root cancelling but still difficult to follow up. If the enemy is attacking back often times you TRADE mezzes, you stun them, they hold you, essentially cancelling out any advantage your stun gave you.

3. Yes absorb shield helps, but after you trade mezzes (total focus vs strangler) it just comes down to a damage race that they win because of lower CDs on their attacks+higher resistance+constant regen from absorb shield. Anyway my point is not to balance energy melee around dueling fire blasters, it was just to give people an example of very common scenarios in pvp and how even when you build a pure damage based stalker build it still does less damage than ranged ATs(believe it or not corrs/defenders do almost as much as blasters due to proc system).

4. Bio armor is the only secondary aside from rad armor I think that provides a damage bonus. That said the only other viable secondary in pvp i'd say is energy aura, rest of the defense sets are not really viable for various reasons and resistance sets don't allow you to get back into hide easily(bio makes up for this with the low CD absorb shield+dmg bonus). Point is, best secondaries are bio and energy aura, rest you are wasting your time.

Again, I just wanna illustrate how dumb things are right now, energy transfer which requires TWO prerequisites. First hitting a TF first for energy focus to get the 1.1 sec cast AND second being in hide to mini crit. Together this barely does more than a 120-140ft range snipe that has half the cooldown and 10x+ the range.

Do I like the game being a damage race? No, but if that's how it is, for energy melee to function, it will need maybe a higher crit damage % (instead of 28% maybe 56% on both ET and TF?) or partial unresisted crits (perhaps 40-50%??). Perhaps adding in detoggling to the enemy movement speed toggles as well.

Edit: I can definitely sense some doubt in your post of my playing, I've been playing energy melee stalkers on test leagues and in tournaments in pvp since 2007:

. You may not believe me that it's as bad as I'm describing but just go try it for yourself lol. I mean if competitive or high lvl pvpers struggle with min/max builds? I can't imagine what it's gonna be like for regular pvpers.

Edited November 21, 2020 by M3z

Gibson99 · November 21, 2020

5 hours ago, M3z said:

Again, I just wanna illustrate how dumb things are right now, energy transfer which requires TWO prerequisites. First hitting a TF first for energy focus to get the 1.1 sec cast AND second being in hide to mini crit. Together this barely does more than a 120-140ft range snipe that has half the cooldown and 10x+ the range.

Do I like the game being a damage race? No, but if that's how it is, for energy melee to function, it will need maybe a higher crit damage % (instead of 28% maybe 56% on both ET and TF?) or partial unresisted crits (perhaps 40-50%??). Perhaps adding in detoggling to the enemy movement speed toggles as well.

I agree that things are dumb right now which can make PvP predictable. The uniqueness and fun factor has been replaced by the damage factor.

It seems we both would like PvP to have more of an interesting dynamic rather than blasterfest.

Great info presented on your points. A+

Jimmy · November 21, 2020

As the patch is nearing completion, we are no longer seeking feedback on this topic.

The latest patch notes can be found in the Beta Patch Notes forum.

If you encounter any bugs during this last phase of testing, please report them in the Beta Bug Reports forum.

Once the patch is live, feel free to post feedback in the Suggestions & Feedback forum. and bug reports in the Bug Reports forum.

Thank you!

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Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

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