Focused Feedback: Teleportation Pool Revamp

[Ironblade]

44 minutes ago, Koopak said:

Someone in the thread for the accolade already did the math, a near worst case scenario is 5 mins per zone unlock, with most being 2 mins or less.

NONE of them were under two minutes so this isn't as trivial as you suggest.

PI: 2:52 (Poor starting spot.)
Talos: 3:57 (Had to go around a few things due to lack of jump height.)
IP: 4:05 (Shave off about 30s with more jump height.)
Terra Volta: 4:29 (With jump pack or flight this easily could have taken only two minutes)
Atlas: 2:19 (jump height handicap again.)

KR: 3:16

 

Having said that, this isn't a problem to *ME*.  I already have every exploration badge on my main character and many many zone accolades on other characters.  I spend time GRINDING content of every sort.  But for a lot of people, this is enough to be really burdensome.  I think it's fair to say that most players are casual players.

[Koopak]

9 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

NONE of them were under two minutes so this isn't as trivial as you suggest.

PI: 2:52 (Poor starting spot.)
Talos: 3:57 (Had to go around a few things due to lack of jump height.)
IP: 4:05 (Shave off about 30s with more jump height.)
Terra Volta: 4:29 (With jump pack or flight this easily could have taken only two minutes)
Atlas: 2:19 (jump height handicap again.)

KR: 3:16

 

Having said that, this isn't a problem to *ME*.  I already have every exploration badge on my main character and many many zone accolades on other characters.  I spend time GRINDING content of every sort.  But for a lot of people, this is enough to be really burdensome.  I think it's fair to say that most players are casual players.

I appreciate you grabbing that for me. Seems i mis remembered some of them. However the total estimate i gave were using a worst case scenario. I did this on purpose to give a benefit of a doubt to the issue. And again, I can agree that perhaps the requirements should be lightened, i do not agree however, that LRTP should remain as it is currently.

[Ironblade]

1 minute ago, Koopak said:

And again, I can agree that perhaps the requirements should be lightened, i do not agree however, that LRTP should remain as it is currently.

To be fair, LRTP is apparently an edge case and presumably very few people chose it, so we're probably giving it too much thought already.  🙂

 

I just think taking away options because they aren't very popular is never a good idea in a game.  On the other hand, I think the new accolade power is awesome, because my main character will have full access on day one.

[Koopak]

7 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

I just think taking away options because they aren't very popular is never a good idea in a game. 

Generally I agree with you, but as long as the devs feel its necessary to keep the Pool sets down to their current size, which i agree with because if they bumped it up it would establish a precedent, then Its certainly the ideal one to do this with.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Koopak

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, Ironblade said:

NONE of them were under two minutes so this isn't as trivial as you suggest.

PI: 2:52 (Poor starting spot.)
Talos: 3:57 (Had to go around a few things due to lack of jump height.)
IP: 4:05 (Shave off about 30s with more jump height.)
Terra Volta: 4:29 (With jump pack or flight this easily could have taken only two minutes)
Atlas: 2:19 (jump height handicap again.)

KR: 3:16

 

Having said that, this isn't a problem to *ME*.  I already have every exploration badge on my main character and many many zone accolades on other characters.  I spend time GRINDING content of every sort.  But for a lot of people, this is enough to be really burdensome.  I think it's fair to say that most players are casual players.

Just a reminder that these numbers are per character.  For some people, that makes a huge difference.

[ScarySai]

2 hours ago, Ironblade said:

People need to stop saying this nonsense.

It's not nonsense, I've already debunked the notion it would take that long to get most zones.

 

You're also testing the first beta wave, so nothing is even final to begin with. It's far too soon to be thinking nothing about that will be changed.

 

As for the teleport pool itself, it's an objective improvement and pretty much nobody took the original LRTP. Especially on HC, where it's essentially rendered obsolete by temp powers you can grab the minute you start the game.

Edited October 31, 2020 by ScarySai

[arthurh35353]

32 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

It's not nonsense, I've already debunked the notion it would take that long to get most zones.

 

You're also testing the first beta wave, so nothing is even final to begin with. It's far too soon to be thinking nothing about that will be changed.

 

As for the teleport pool itself, it's an objective improvement and pretty much nobody took the original LRTP. Especially on HC, where it's essentially rendered obsolete by temp powers you can grab the minute you start the game.

And you are now speaking for everyone as if he was the only one that had teleport on any character. Which also includes me.

[ScarySai]

I speak only for myself. LRTP is a rare power pick, you can check the stats.

[Ironblade]

2 hours ago, ScarySai said:

It's not nonsense, I've already debunked the notion it would take that long to get most zones.

(snort) You debunked nothing.  As it stands, it's hours per character.  Sure, there may be changes before it goes live.  Which is why it needs to be emphasized now how onerous it is.

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, Ironblade said:

BS.

People need to stop saying this nonsense.

It's being locked behind literally HOURS of running around getting badges if you want more than a handful of zones.  That's not being 'moved' somewhere; that's a completely different mechanic than picking it from a power pool.

 

Doing this to the people that took it as a pool power is CRAPPY.  The only possible ameliorating factor is that it might be a tiny, tiny number of people who took it.  But I don't know that and neither do you.

 

Always baffles me how people think a little travel in an MMO is to much work.  😛

 

Now those people will get a power slot back for something else, and everyone can have the fun of the power.

 

I admit, I haven't had the power since live, but that's only because I never remade my concept that required that power!

[SeraphimKensai]

10 hours ago, ScarySai said:

It does, and +3 bosses still can't be ported with mag 4 ports.

 

Be nice if control ATs could get past that.

Yeah I was really hoping for the ability to tp a +4 boss. Or honestly an IO to increase the mag on teleport for powers to balance out the IO's that give tp protection.

[ScarySai]

I get why it wouldn't work on the new pool powers, though for something like wormhole it should work on +4 bosses.

Edited October 31, 2020 by ScarySai

[Koopak]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

I get why it wouldn't work on the new pool powers, though for something like wormhole it should work on +4 bosses.

Agreed, while id prefer both, or the enhancement solution, but in terms of priorities? The poor Grav users absolutely should have this.

[Ironblade]

11 hours ago, BrandX said:

Always baffles me how people think a little travel in an MMO is to much work.  😛

It baffles you that two hours of time per character might bother some people?

[aethereal]

Well, good news, it's radically less time now.  Just one exploration badge per destination zone + one full zone exploration.

 

In other news:

 

I've been running a mission against Croatoa Ghosts (who are heavy to-hit debuffers), so I've been just spamming the shit out of Combat Teleport to avoid getting into the floored to-hit you lose cycle.  At first, I was feeling pretty negative about it, but I remembered that this is to some large degree because my to-hit monitor doesn't accurately reflect combat teleport.  Once I stopped paying attention to the monitor and started to just, you know, kind of eyeball it, it's been....  okay.  It's a real pain in the ass to use -- I have to spam CT madly to have its relatively small bonus stack up against the debuffs, and the fact that I don't really know when I've got "enough" to-hit bonus sucks.  But I have avoided the negative-to-hit spiral that you get with spawns of entirely to-hit-debuffing enemies.

[ScarySai]

 I would love it if fold space had a taunt added to it. At least the Warshade version.

Edited October 31, 2020 by ScarySai

[aethereal]

It would be nice if, when you used powexeclocation target combat teleport, if you were teleporting from a lower floor to an upper one, it put you with your feet at the same vertical level as your target's feet.  Right now, what happens if you appear beneath the floor of the target.

[Frostmoon]

On 10/29/2020 at 2:51 PM, Koopak said:

Just realizing I never saw this reply and Its got me scratching my head. No offense but why would missing Eclipse on one of the enemies matter? Ignoring for a moment that you shouldn't have much trouble getting it to a 95% hit chance most of the time, if you've slotted it for even basic resistance you should be hitting your resist caps at somewhere between 4 and 5 targets.

I realize there are a ton of ways to play WS but I was making my comment under the assumption that the reason you'd want to guarantee the mobs are within your Eclipse range is because it lets you leap up to your resist caps in all forms. So if you yank in say 6-8 mobs, you'd need to miss more then 1/2 of them for it to be a serious issue, assuming you can get the eclipse off before the alpha strike, which admittedly i haven't tested but given the slow reactions mobs often have i didn't think it a likely issue.

I pretty quickly lost half my health by missing a few on my Eclipse, so...yeah. Admittedly, my girl is definitely not capping out resistances; I have yet to fully slot her with everything I want, and I've only just started getting the Incarnate powers on her. Anyways, it's not like Fold Space is a *bad* power as a (human) Warshade; it's just one I'll have to seriously think about replacing through a respec.

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, Ironblade said:

It baffles you that two hours of time per character might bother some people?

In an MMO?  Yes.  

[Koopak]

6 hours ago, aethereal said:

Well, good news, it's radically less time now.  Just one exploration badge per destination zone + one full zone exploration.

 

In other news:

 

I've been running a mission against Croatoa Ghosts (who are heavy to-hit debuffers), so I've been just spamming the shit out of Combat Teleport to avoid getting into the floored to-hit you lose cycle.  At first, I was feeling pretty negative about it, but I remembered that this is to some large degree because my to-hit monitor doesn't accurately reflect combat teleport.  Once I stopped paying attention to the monitor and started to just, you know, kind of eyeball it, it's been....  okay.  It's a real pain in the ass to use -- I have to spam CT madly to have its relatively small bonus stack up against the debuffs, and the fact that I don't really know when I've got "enough" to-hit bonus sucks.  But I have avoided the negative-to-hit spiral that you get with spawns of entirely to-hit-debuffing enemies.

I just realized i could have made your life much much easier....

In the combat stats under basic, there is a "last hit chance" stat, track that, it updates with every attack and tells you what your chance to hit the target was. That will give you a better view under the hood. So sorry I didn't think to point that out sooner.

 

 

5 hours ago, CatCatJamie said:

I pretty quickly lost half my health by missing a few on my Eclipse, so...yeah. Admittedly, my girl is definitely not capping out resistances; I have yet to fully slot her with everything I want, and I've only just started getting the Incarnate powers on her. Anyways, it's not like Fold Space is a *bad* power as a (human) Warshade; it's just one I'll have to seriously think about replacing through a respec.

Thats fair, and while my Triform shade isnt enhanced to even 50 yet, ill admit im much happier to risk the knifes edge on him than some people might be. But I know once hes setup as long as i get 3-4 enemies in my eclipse ill be fine and always have fall backs, just have to very very present, cant relax on my WS like I can on other ATs but for that trade off hes a little demi god when it goes right and i love it.

[ScarySai]

4 hours ago, BrandX said:

In an MMO?  Yes.  

It's irrelevant now, since you only need one exploration badge now.

 

Look, if people can't handle one exploration badge, they can just walk - lol.

 

Anyway, I'm annoyed with how little attention teleport itself is getting here. Anyone else? The untouchable thing is nice, but a far cry from a proper fix for the clunkiest travel option.

[KaizenSoze]

So, I tried it out on my all mace Bane.

 

Teleport Target - There needs to be a way to make it a mag 3+ teleport, being only able to TP minions isn't that useful. Maybe a special TP only enhancement set that adds +1 TP mag, that does work in PvP.

Combat Teleport - Fine as is, work best with a powexec_location target bind

Fold Space - This need to give better feedback on way it failed to TP any mobs. It does not give an out of range or LOS error. Otherwise, works well. It was good for gathering mobs around me for crowd control hits.

[Super Atom]

4 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

It's irrelevant now, since you only need one exploration badge now.

 

Look, if people can't handle one exploration badge, they can just walk - lol.

 

Anyway, I'm annoyed with how little attention teleport itself is getting here. Anyone else? The untouchable thing is nice, but a far cry from a proper fix for the clunkiest travel option.

Gotta agree here. TP still feels bad to use compared to the other three. You can jazz up the other powers and you did and they're great but the actual travel power isn't great

 

Maybe make it instant like combat? Disable instant in pvp etc

Edited October 31, 2020 by Super Atom

[ScarySai]

The core issue is that, even if we disregard combat entirely, teleport feels awful to use indoors.

 

CT is nice but it really isn't that helpful for that particular usage. 

[Wavicle]

These changes look great.

To be honest, Warshades are now so good it really does feel like PBs need a little extra help. Maybe improve their Ally Heal?