The Good, the Bad, the Fugly [ issue 27 ]

[Taboo]

17 hours ago, Starforge said:

That can entirely be fixed by more people testing things on the Beta server.

got chased out of the Beta testing. not cool having multiple closed testers argue with every opinion they didn't like.

 

[ZacKing]

20 minutes ago, Taboo said:

got chased out of the Beta testing. not cool having multiple closed testers argue with every opinion they didn't like.

 

Amen brother.  This cannot be emphasized or repeated enough and its 100% true.  people who expressed disappointment in the changes were shouted down, attacked and cancelled for having a different idea.  the behavior is endemic on these forums and it's driving people away.   to be honest, I won't bother with beta testing anymore and most people I know who did will do the same.  allowing this shit to go on isn't helping anyone or the game in general.

Edited November 25, 2020 by ZacKing

[Taboo]

there are many things to like in the new changes. thank you for them.

i listed more likes than anything else but peeps just see one thing they disargee on an boom.

lots of work and a good job.

On 11/24/2020 at 9:21 AM, Taboo said:

Lots of work probably went into Issue 27. Nows we gets to heap praise, poke holes and point out blunders.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Taboo

[Saikochoro]

I’m not calling out anyone by name, but there was quite a bit of the negative feedback that was not negative feedback, but rather just insulting the dev team. 
 

Saying, “I don’t like X change for Y reason” is a far cry from saying, “I don’t like X change and therefore the dev team is lazy, thoughtless, has no good reasoning, and doesn’t listen to feedback.”

 

Having arguments back and forth about who likes/dislikes any given change is fine and expected with big changes. However, when a negative stance is used as an excuse to insult the dev team, then it is expected that people would call out said insults. This did happen quite a bit.

[Troo]

• New content - Awesome, pretty sure this was on everyone's wish list.
• Fixed some annoying bugs out there.
• Total Focus had it's animation time shortened. This is big across many ATs
• New powersets.
• Scrappers got Energy Melee. That's pretty fantastic.

 

Don't make me keeping going. There is way more to like than dislike in Issue 27: Second Chances on this we can agree.

 

• (The Graveyard Shift, level 20-29)
• (The Freakish Lab of Dr. Vahzilok, level 30-39)
• introducing new contacts, enemy groups, mission maps and several unique mission mechanics! (aw crap.. not more mechanics 😛 )
• Friggin Asymmetrical Shoulders!!
• Expanded Power Customization
• Improvements to Enhancements oh my!

• Expanded gamepad support That's right!! (did you know I use a controller and play on a giant big screen)
• 9 new arena maps
• 15 new badges (sorry completion-ists)

 

I could keeping going..

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Troo

[Gobbledigook]

I wasn't happy with Dark Melee as many of you know, and won't use it now, 😜 but I am happy  and enthusiastic with i27, there is more I liked than disliked.

 

It is easy to get caught up in an argument. Someone says something or it is taken\read wrong and it escalates. But deep down I think we are all nice people, I have never met a bad person in game. We are just passionate about this game 😘

Edited November 25, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Widower]

I've hidden a bunch of posts. I would strongly suggest leaving the past in the past.

[Troo]

There are some things to circle back on for sure. Let folks post some opinions, it's a process, many are just seeing changes for the first time. They are not wrong to have an opinion.

 

Hey look a Dark Melee thread..

squirrel !!

[Troo]

16 minutes ago, GM Widower said:

I've hidden a bunch of posts. I would strongly suggest leaving the past in the past.

Frankly, I'm not sure this helps very much.

I didn't see any name calling or insults. Let folks voice their opinion. It's disappointing to see posts constantly removed while other remain. See the derailment post still on the first page of this thread with giant orange letters.

 

Too heavy of moderation could have the opposite effect than intended. @Jimmy @Captain Powerhouse etc. Effectively driving players away (players who obviously care) for voicing opinions that differ is no bueno.

 

I'll take my point and retire for the day..

Edited November 25, 2020 by Troo

[Widower]

12 minutes ago, Troo said:

Frankly, I'm not sure this helps very much.

I didn't see any name calling or insults. Let folks voice their opinion. It's disappointing to see posts constantly removed while other remain. See the derailment post still on the first page of this thread with giant orange letters.

 

Too heavy of moderation could have the opposite effect than intended. @Jimmy @Captain Powerhouse etc. Effectively driving players away (players who obviously care) for voicing opinions that differ is no bueno.

 

I'll take my point and retire for the day..

We're not interested in any further meta-arguing. Frankly, we've allowed too much of it. If you want to talk about the topic, go ahead. If you want to argue about the conduct of your arguments over the past month, go somewhere else.

[Flask]

On 11/25/2020 at 1:42 AM, Carnifax said:

Good : Lots of stuff. Enjoying most of the new arcs. Love the Trick Arrow changes

Bad : Whirling Hands change for Domi. It no longer spams the screen with NRG Release so the impact feels much less now. But I've flogged that dead horse multiple times so now I'm just abusing PROCs with it instead.

Fugly : Base TP changes, although I totally understand them it did end up with a lot of travel. Tying into that, the middle of the hero arc which lead me on a multi-zone dance (Skyway -> Hollows talkie-> Skyway Hunt -> Skyway "run to these 4 points". Urrgh. Destroyed the flow of the arc and half my PuG team quit as I was doing it. Not out of badness, just the interruption let them realise what time it was so they called it a night). 

Yes.. Lots of good stuff.

 

Hoping the long range teleport gets better with use.

[Ukase]

On 11/24/2020 at 11:21 AM, Taboo said:

Long Range Teleporter, Base Transporter P2W (10min?! so lame)

Sure, the lrtp recharge could be shorter, but here's what I think you may not be taking into account: 

Before: click sg base macro - load in (5-10 seconds, depending on your system) run to the portal for where you're going (5-10 seconds, depending on base set up) go to desired zone, page load for another 5-10 seconds

After: LRTP - go direct to zone - 5-10 seconds. 

So, we do save 15-30 seconds depending on variables with the lrtp. Again, yeah, I get the point on a 10 Min recharge. Don't really see why it wasn't instant. BUT  - if you have day job for monitor duty, and you get the base porter from p2w, as well as the sg portal temp, you're going to be able to move around just about as quickly as before, if not faster - once you get used to it. Maybe not in all cases, but in more than a few. And yeah, I get that it can be annoying to get all the explores for a zone and one badge in each zone you'd want to go to. Fortunately for me, I love the merits and do that with all my characters anyway. 26 zones, 5 reward merits each..that's not chump change if you sold 390 converters from those merits. (or used them to convert trash into gold like I do) 

I have to continually remind myself that the base macro was something we were told we weren't supposed to have. I heard rumors about how it got out - and see a tip in mission loading screens telling us about it...so while that's confusing and maybe contradictory, (in my head),  I'm grateful I got to use it as long as I did, and I can still use it within the new parameters. 

It really isn't that bad, I promise! 

[Blackbird71]

4 hours ago, Ukase said:

Sure, the lrtp recharge could be shorter, but here's what I think you may not be taking into account: 

Before: click sg base macro - load in (5-10 seconds, depending on your system) run to the portal for where you're going (5-10 seconds, depending on base set up) go to desired zone, page load for another 5-10 seconds

After: LRTP - go direct to zone - 5-10 seconds. 

So, we do save 15-30 seconds depending on variables with the lrtp. Again, yeah, I get the point on a 10 Min recharge. Don't really see why it wasn't instant. BUT  - if you have day job for monitor duty, and you get the base porter from p2w, as well as the sg portal temp, you're going to be able to move around just about as quickly as before, if not faster - once you get used to it. Maybe not in all cases, but in more than a few. And yeah, I get that it can be annoying to get all the explores for a zone and one badge in each zone you'd want to go to. Fortunately for me, I love the merits and do that with all my characters anyway. 26 zones, 5 reward merits each..that's not chump change if you sold 390 converters from those merits. (or used them to convert trash into gold like I do) 

I have to continually remind myself that the base macro was something we were told we weren't supposed to have. I heard rumors about how it got out - and see a tip in mission loading screens telling us about it...so while that's confusing and maybe contradictory, (in my head),  I'm grateful I got to use it as long as I did, and I can still use it within the new parameters. 

It really isn't that bad, I promise! 

This is great for those looking to get from zone to zone. 

Less so for those looking for quick and frequent access to bases.  For those, the cooldown on the Base Teleporter (and charge requirements on Day Job versions) is a significant obstacle and an unnecessary pain.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Blackbird71

[PorkTips]

I appreciate all the work that went into the patch. I like the changes overall.

 

My favorite change is Energy melee for scrappers. Super fun!

 

The only change I dont like is the reduction in hold time on EMP Arrow from the Trick Arrow set. I actually used it for the hold, so it seems quite weak now (for what I want to use it for). My Earth/TA controller won't miss the 12 to 13 seconds of AoE hold duration, because Earth/anything is a control beast. But I may respec out of it on a few of my /TA masterminds and take something else.

 

All the other changes are either good, or good on paper, to the degree that I understand them.

 

Overall, its an A+ patch for me.

 

[Troo]

A couple items that were lost to the new release.

 

TP Foe could formerly be used on a teammate's target. No more.

Regular Temp Power use in Siren's Call. (Yes there is an option to use the vendor for arena powers IF the zone has been won) At best, this won't be clear to players.

 

Granted it is difficult to consider all situations, results & repercussions when making sweeping changes. This list will grow, it is okay. Hopefully these are things that can get addressed.

[Hedgefund]

So far, and I haven't examined all that i27 has to offer by any means, one item in "the good" perhaps even "the great" is lowbie SOs.  

 

I'm a lowbie grinder, not even DFBs for me, and having SOs before 22 is incredible.  It's even got me rethinking my normal slotting strategy, which is to make a beeline to the recharge bonus in a set's ATOs and perhaps 5 slot Panacea if I had a lowbie heal, but I'm finding 1 Acc 2 Dmg SOs gives legit performance that may even surpass having a head start on global recharge.  The enhancement values of the ATOs still gets reduced to nigh nothing and for strict enhancement values, the SOs are way better.  Time for some figgerin'...

[macskull]

On 11/25/2020 at 1:49 PM, ZacKing said:

people who expressed disappointment in the changes were shouted down, attacked and cancelled for having a different idea

Can you point to any instances of this happening? I am digging through the open beta feedback threads and what I'm seeing is:

• Constructive criticism in the form of thought-out and well-reasoned posts being listened to and sometimes even getting changes made
• A few "I don't like this"-type posts, which aren't really constructive but are less disruptive than the category below
• A handful of posters making the same complaints, who when presented with solutions to their complaints just complained louder and clogged up feedback threads with pointless arguments

You've brought this argument up in other places but it's simply not the reality of the situation. It's that third category of people who have ensured if something like /enterbasefrompasscode (i.e. a GM/dev-level command which players accidentally get access to) is discovered again it'll simply be shut down right away instead of being allowed to remain in place while a replacement is developed.

 

Yes, the replacement system for /enterbasefrompasscode is not as convenient as having anytime/anywhere access to the command. It isn't supposed to be because the command was never supposed to be used like it was. Nevertheless, the replacement system is reasonably well-thought-out and accessible and requires at least a little bit of investment in exchange for essentially being able to skip most travel. It was continuously improved throughout the closed beta and open beta periods in response to player feedback and new tech was developed to make it work better. Now that it's live it's still being improved as evidenced by the most recent set of patch notes on the beta/staging servers.

 

EDIT: For what it's worth, I was not happy about the change in its first few iterations but after a bit of playing around ingame it wasn't actually too bad and the improvements made to recharge/activation times and unlock requirements made it way better. Even on a brand-new level 1 character I can get LRT unlocked in less than five minutes. As of right now the only real complaint I have is I have to get used to a different way of doing things, which at the end of the day isn't all that big a deal.

Edited December 1, 2020 by macskull

[nihilii]

One week in, I can say I've been slowed down exactly two times by the removal of the command. And I am one of these people who has everything in their base and makes frequent trips to it. How frequent do you need frequent to be, is the question. Between base TP and supergroup portal, there's enough ways. Basically the situation it gets slightly annoying compared to the convenience of before is when you're doing something in your base, you get out, and then you realise "oh wait I forgot to grab this IO in my chest", and once this happens twice in a row, on the third go you have to wait or run to the base portal. But even then, because exiting the base plops you out at a portal now, it also requires for you to have been moving to somewhere else before you realise your previous mistake and for it to become a problem. Twice!

 

That's how it goes for me at least. Perhaps I'm oblivious to other situations. I make it a point to use mission TP / team TP first if I'm traveling to a mission, rather than base -> teleporter. And I will on occasion use the good old Ouroboros portal in situations where I used /enterbasefrompasscode from laziness/convenience; i.e., going to the P2W guy in Atlas. Having the fast travel menu open Ouroboros without having to aim reticle basically makes it as easy as base teleporters for any zone listed in Ouro anyway.

[Mezmera]

The Good: 

- EM.  The revision of this powerset had me remake my very first tank which was Invuln/EM but this time around in a nastier stalker version.  I'm having a blast with it and it feels good, maybe even a little too good, I'm leery about any future rebalancing seeing how I was having tons of fun on my doms Whirling Hands before this issue.  

- Asymmetrical shoulders.  I'd like to see a few more already in game costume options available (I'm looking at you seer robes) but the new shoulders option is a nice touch.  

- Athletic Sprint.  Is this new or did I just not see until now?  Either way I don't see myself crouching as I'm running it's awful on the back so this is a nice addition for all of my characters without Super Speed, which is all of them.  

 

The Bad: 

- Speaking of dominator's Whirling Hands, it's now relegated to mediocre status again.  I appreciate the no lockout feature and see how tinkering would be necessary to avoid doms running around dropping double damage Whirling Hands like they're hot all day long but I think this was the worst avenue to take.  On the discussion board not one Energy dom player it feels like was given consideration when asking for another avenue to be taken with the tinker even though all seem to have valid concerns and gave objective critiques.  I can live with it but I'm saving my chip for that ominous Powerboost nerf being pontificated.  

- I'm all for new content but sub 45 content is in abundance and  would have liked to have seen some later content

- More blaster winning.  Since the days of live it has been transformative for this AT.  Why play anything else?  Could we stop nerfing stuff and if that's not a path we can tread then I advocate for toning down crashless nukes if we need parity so badly.  

 

The Fugly: 

- The new teleport accolade.  I have a neutral stance on this one.  For some reason copy pasting that teleport command never worked for me nor a lot of other "cheats" and I swears I'm doing it right they just don't work.  Back in my day getting around with this new fangled Oro portal felt like you were taking a rocket ship so this new accolade button I can press will be neat but just based on habit I don't know how mindful I'll be to use it.  But I do empathize with everyone that don't like their keys being taken away from them in the form that it was.  

Edit: I will defer to @macskull on this power as I've attested to having little experience with the exploit and if it pretty much behaves the same way but now with a button and some adjustment then well so be it.  

Edited December 1, 2020 by Mezmera

[Troo]

10 hours ago, macskull said:

Can you point to any instances of this happening? I am digging through the open beta feedback threads

No we can't, they were removed. You know this.

 

What I'm reading into your post is that you got to try changes before open beta.

 

I do find it interesting that you didn't like what you saw at first,

but as feedback was provided and your being part of that feedback lead you to a place where you were okay with the changes after evolving iterations.

 

Makes one wonder how many of the folks liking your post were also testing changes and providing feedback before the open beta.

 

9 hours ago, nihilii said:

One week in, I can say I've been slowed down exactly two times by the removal of the command.

The change is not as bad as it feels at first. Maybe it was a bit confusing the way it is explained.

My situation of concern was wanting to change alignments and then catch up with a forming task force. Turns out it is pretty easy, just a different route.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Troo