Most Unstoppable Tank

[The_Warpact]

7 minutes ago, Dark Dove said:

Don't forget Dark Obliteration if you can fit it in, it's a great AoE.

 

 

Yeah, I actually use GW pool on my fire broots instead of the usual Mu mastery that everyone goes with.

So I have Dark Oblit in their builds as well as Gloom for the occasional runner. Fantastic power btw.

[Infinitum]

7 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

If it is something tankers do not need then by definition giving it up should not get you anything as you have not really given up anything.

 

The real problem with altering Energy Cloak to do something else more in line with tanking is that Energy Aura is, when you look at all it already has, a really good power set. It has healing, endurance recovery, and recharge boost. Shield, awesome as it is, does not heal you or keep you in a fight if you run out of endurance. Super Reflexes has neither healing nor endurance recovery and while it has inherent Recharge boosting, it cannot hit the highs Energy Aura does.

 

Arguably for all that Energy Aura brings to the table, getting the minor defense boost that Energy Cloak brings along with the situational usage of stealth is its balance. If you replace Energy Cloak it needs to be with something that brings nothing more to the table.

What would be more in line with tanking would be a HP boost - that was suggested.

[Erratic1]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

What would be more in line with tanking would be a HP boost - that was suggested.

So Energy Aura would have healing, endurance recovery, recharge boost AND extra health?

 

If the developer is already leary of porting Energy Aura to Tankers I am not sure how giving it more health than other sets is going to be a selling point.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, The_Warpact said:

No worries....while I hate to do this but curiosity is getting the better of me and not to start another.....lengthy conversation, Energy cloak if ported over wouldn't equate to a Cloak of Darkness type toggle? (Honestly, I "skimmed" over your guys posts, sorry too much for my old eyes to keep up with, so I might be missing ALOT)

 

I dont have access to Mids so I can look at the numbers, but, a port over should be relatively easy with some adjustments. 

Although as a tanker which to me is the center of attention having a stealth seems...odd.

BUT, I think of Martian Manhunter and it makes sense to me at least. 

 

Back to the subject at hand, I went with a Dk/Dk tanker. Numbers look good, and seems with all the -to hit, heals, regen, recovery, its going to seem unstoppable. 

I'll probably go with GW pool for gloom and darkest night.

The only thing you may run into is endurance issues - I mitigate that by putting a panacea in health, perf shifter in stamina, and get physical perfection and put a per shifter there also.  I can't remember which incarnate I go with - it's either cardiac or agility - but All that combined eliminates end issues.

 

Mine ends up with all resistances capped at 90 except energy and that's at 80 and toxic at 73 - with around 53% melee defense.

 

Its nigh unkillable.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Infinitum

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

So Energy Aura would have healing, endurance recovery, recharge boost AND extra health?

 

If the developer is already leary of porting Energy Aura to Tankers I am not sure how giving it more health than other sets is going to be a selling point.

There is talk CPH was leary of the defense being so high, so yeah remove energy cloak would also remove the defense it provides with the addition of a power that yields an HP boost would put it more in line with what tankers do any way - and there is precedent already for removing energy cloak in sentinels - and finally go back and read my comparison with invul - -def and +HP would make it in line with invul which would work well I think without OP ing it's crossover to tankers. 

 

Invul is about as OP as tankers should be and a direct EA port as is would give it invincibility on demand with a +end click, ddr, good resistances and a 30 sec heal/regen power.

 

Thats why losing a little def while gaining HP maybe an absorb instead(Def is > HP) would bring it in line with the tanker metric IMO.

 

It would be like a clicky version of invul.

 

Thats the last I'm going to post on it here.  Ive hijacked this thread enough - post a threat on sugg and feedback and I'll gladly respond there.

[Arisara]

On 1/2/2021 at 3:44 AM, Dark Dove said:

Thanks!  I will have a good night and I do enjoy my stalkers.  I love my tanker though, who also happens to have stealth built in, and will continue to have stealth built in.  It's a nice bonus, really makes Dark Armor more attractive to play.

I've read this back and forth for a while now. Enjoying your build is most important. However if I'm on a team with a tanker having stealth activated I'll be leaving that team as soon as I notice. A tanker under stealth is only gonna get me killed for not TANKING mobs away from me.

[Erratic1]

Invulnerability, as good as it is, does not heal, give endurance or recharge. But how about this instead...

 

Energy Cloak 

PBAOE, (Team but not self) +DEF (Smash/Lethal/Energy), +RES (Endurance Drain)

 

You are able to extend your energy shield to nearby allies who gain a bonus to their defense

and resistance to endurance drain. 

 

Make it a toggle power affecting allies within a radius. I am tempted to add in having it redirect a portion of the damage dealt to allies to the tanker. Either way, now there is a power which has no use solo, does not give defense--weakening its defensive value compared to what Energy Cloak originally did, and does not provide stealth--and has only a limited situational benefit. That might make a port sellable.

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Erratic1

[Myrmidon]

8 minutes ago, Arisara said:

I've read this back and forth for a while now. Enjoying your build is most important. However if I'm on a team with a tanker having stealth activated I'll be leaving that team as soon as I notice. A tanker under stealth is only gonna get me killed for not TANKING mobs away from me.

The stealth suppresses once you engage the enemy, so I wouldn’t worry about that.

[The_Warpact]

32 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

The only thing you may run into is endurance issues - I mitigate that by putting a panacea in health, perf shifter in stamina, and get physical perfection and put a per shifter there also.  I can't remember which incarnate I go with - it's either cardiac or agility - but All that combined eliminates end issues.

 

Mine ends up with all resistances capped at 90 except energy and that's at 80 and toxic at 73 - with around 53% melee defense.

 

Its nigh unkillable.

This is what I've got on the build right now.

[Arisara]

21 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

On a side note, I'm going to look at a "fear tank" you piqued my curiosity on this. 

On my build I didn't take taunt. I took provoke in it's place 'cause I planned for having the fear powers from that pool anyway. I tried increasing resistances and defenses first but that fell short on recharge rate needed for maintaining permanent fear effects. Then I realized resistance and defense wasn't so important.. the dang mobs are feared and not attacking much. Doh! Permanent Hasten had to be part of the build. I squeezed mine in at level 28. I try to get key concepts in at level 30 or before for considering what powers I would keep were I to exemplar to the first PvP area, Bloody Bay. Thinking back on the reading I did yesterday I recall the banter between you and the fella thinking stealth on a Tanker was a good idea (for solo sure; for a team.. not if I'm the one getting pummeled instead of the unnoticed Tank) and remembered he mentioned his Stalker. Unrelated to the Tanker topic here I think of my Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu build. With Concealment Misdirection and Presence Pacify the thing has 4 placates; 2 28 second recharge single targets and 2 AOE placates (56 second and 112 second recharges, no hasten) crammed in at level 30 or before. Who in PvP would be prepared to be hit with 4 placates? Mwahahaha!

[Gobbledigook]

Couldn't they just remove the +defence from energy drain and port everything else over to tankers?

 

I don't see why adding another unkillable power set to an AT that already has a number of unkillable sets is a problem anyway lol.

 

If we can't have EA then they can't have SS haha.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Gobbledegook

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Gobbledegook said:

I don't see why adding another unkillable power set to an AT that already has a number of unkillable sets is a problem anyway lol.

That... Is very true - but the +defense in energy drain is basically to the set what invincibility is to invul - just a click version.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Infinitum

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Invulnerability, as good as it is, does not heal,

Dull pain says hello

 

Your suggestions arent bad - but again needs to be reopened on suggestions and feedback so as to not further hijack warpacts thread.

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

This is what I've got on the build right now.

This is how mine looks - you don't jave to hit those numbers but you are going to want to be higher than where you are to be effective - especially in Smashing Lethal.

 

 

Look up omega infinitum here for ideas on how to slot to mix with your goals for your character.

 

 

[Erratic1]

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Dull pain says hello

D'oh!

 

Got used to thinking of my healing coming from Siphon Life on my DM/Inv Scrapper. 

 

And yeah, dropping the matter here.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Erratic1

[Dark Dove]

10 hours ago, Arisara said:

I've read this back and forth for a while now. Enjoying your build is most important. However if I'm on a team with a tanker having stealth activated I'll be leaving that team as soon as I notice. A tanker under stealth is only gonna get me killed for not TANKING mobs away from me.

Every dark armor tanker runs Cloak of Darkness, or at least most do for the other benefits it provides (Immob and very good defense, and of course stealth).  So you can generally, if you prefer, comfortably leave any team where there is a dark armor tanker running all of their toggles.  You'll even want to leave @Infinitum teams when they are running a dark tank, because they run stealth too, even though they don't utilize the stealth as a tanker ability.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Dark Dove

[Infinitum]

16 minutes ago, Dark Dove said:

Every dark armor tanker runs Cloak of Darkness, or at least most do for the other benefits it provides (Immob and very good defense, and of course stealth).  So you can generally, if you prefer, comfortably leave any team where there is a dark armor tanker running all of their toggles.  You'll even want to leave @Infinitum teams when they are running a dark tank, because they run stealth too, even though they are against it as a tanker ability.

No they wouldn't, ;-)

 

my stealth is always suppressed because I'm running my agro and damage auras to maximize agro control.

 

Again with the word "against" also.

 

Not utilizing a feature because it doesnt contribute to how tankers are played to maximize what a tanker is supposed to do, and not really needing it, is not the same thing as being against it.

 

I'm not against stealth in dark armor - for the record - I just don't need or utilize its benefit.

 

Because I'm usually in the center of an agro capped ruckus lighting bad guys on fire left and right with dark energy and laughing at them as their attacks tickle fight me.

[Dark Dove]

Just now, Infinitum said:

No they wouldn't, 😉

 

my stealth is always suppressed because I'm running my agro and damage auras to maximize agro control.

 

Again with the word "against" also.

 

Not utilizing a feature because it doesnt contribute to how tankers are played to maximize what a tanker is supposed to do, and not really needing it, is not the same thing as being against it.

 

I'm not against stealth in dark armor - for the record - I just don't need or utilize its benefit.

 

Because I'm usually in the center of an agro capped ruckus lighting bad guys on fire left and right with dark energy and laughing at them as their attacks tickle fight me.

Sorry, what word is the right word, I'll use it instead of against and edit it out right now, not trying to put any words in your mouth.

 

Do you recommend leaving teams where Tankers are running cloak of darkness?

[Infinitum]

3 minutes ago, Dark Dove said:

Sorry, what word is the right word, I'll use it instead of against and edit it out right now, not trying to put any words in your mouth.

 

Do you recommend leaving teams where Tankers are running cloak of darkness?

You dont have to use any word - I'm not against it or for it.  Its just there.  I am neutral towards is use and existence.

 

I wont utilize it but its ok if someone else wants to.

 

And no I wouldnt suggest leaving a team unless the tanker was just bad - amd thats likely due to more than just abusing cloak of darkness.

[Haijinx]

13 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

This is what I've got on the build right now.

No tough? 

[The_Warpact]

8 hours ago, Haijinx said:

No tough? 

Using it as a mule, but, didn't have it on...nor do I have an incarnate in use.

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, The_Warpact said:

Using it as a mule, but, didn't have it on...nor do I have an incarnate in use.

With Tanker Numbers especially Tough is pretty large bang for your buck, its basically like adding a Temp Invulnerability lite to your build.   It would really improve your S/L resist from those 56% you have listed. 

[Infinitum]

18 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

With Tanker Numbers especially Tough is pretty large bang for your buck, its basically like adding a Temp Invulnerability lite to your build.   It would really improve your S/L resist from those 56% you have listed. 

Yeah, agreed you need at least in the 80s On a resist based build to be effective.

 

Toggle it on then post where you are at.

[Arisara]

On 1/3/2021 at 10:25 AM, Myrmidon said:

The stealth suppresses once you engage the enemy, so I wouldn’t worry about that.

I've responded once to the stealth tanker fella. Anything further is wasting time trying to bring light to someone who can never be wrong. I'll respond once here as well. You're not wrong. Ya just haven't thought as far as who gets the aggro from line of sight before engagement. That cannot be my fire blaster; a glass cannon. .. And I mean "glass". What very little resistance and defense it has is accidental. I set the blaster for damage buff, recharge and recovery. I don't want behind a Tanker that gets stealth suppressed ONCE he engages the enemy; the darn mobs are gonna SEE me first. One round of attacks from a mob will kill this particular cannon. It's a team blaster. Sure the Tank may get aggro after a first volley from a mob not prepared for is launched. The cannon will be just as dead. I need my shield teammate to be seen first. After aggro is assuredly not addressed toward me then I let loose. Less than full volley is gonna burn everything. .. Almost everything. The AV is gonna take 4 shots.  For anyone disappointed with Rain of Fire.. grab the villain patron Electrifying Fences; AOE immobilize. Mobs will take full ticks. It's a fun combo but related to survival I don't use it much for HAVING to destroy all enemies fast.

[nihilii]

I feel compelled to post just to say @Dark Dove has been 100% right in this thread. If you skip CoD, you're losing out on 8% defense. There is functionally no difference between a Dark Tanker and any other Tanker when it comes to aggro management, except by choice.

 

That is, a player who sits around twiddling their thumbs for 10 seconds between each group may find their stealth is recharged; and if they stroll at a snail's pace to the next group, expecting enemies to notice them without input of their own, then yes: it is possible another faster player might get the mobs' attention first.

But, if you play normally, which in my book for a tanker would be jumping from group to group as soon as everyone is inside the mission and ready, always be the vanguard, and open every fight with a large PBAoE (and all Dark Tankers have one large radius fast recharge PBAoE if nothing else: Dark Regen), then your stealth is perma suppressed and you never ever lose aggro.

It's also worth noting that the anemic Tanker playstyle WILL make you leak aggro, no matter what Tanker primary you play. You can't passively rely on mobs hitting you first based on line of sight. One has to actively generate threat with attacks or at least auras (which are very limited in range).

Edited January 4, 2021 by nihilii