A Meandering Path to a Billion Inf

[arcane]

Will probably be at about 600mil when I log in this afternoon. May withdraw some as I have a new toon I want to slot up with it.

 

Anyway it’s obvious to me this is super efficient, but it still frustrates me. For two reasons:

 

1) It feels so much less like playing the game than farming. Therefore it requires more discipline because no component of it is gratifying in an immediate sense.

 

2) To call it the most efficient way of making money depends on how you define your terms. Is it more efficient per unit of game time played on the marketeer character? Absolutely yes. Is it more efficient per unit of real life time?  Not necessarily. I made 600 mil in a week with little game time, yes, but, if all I care about is getting new characters slotted up quicker, I could make 600 mil in less real life time by farming, albeit that would involve a lot more of my game time.

EDIT: and it’s not like I want to give up on farming completely. It gives you many other things. Like fast veteran levels. Anyway, all this is to say, I will probably try to keep this thing going for awhile. But I don’t have to be 110% happy about it 😉

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by arcane

[Yomo Kimyata]

17 minutes ago, arcane said:

 

 

2) To call it the most efficient way of making money depends on how you define your terms. Is it more efficient per unit of game time played on the marketeer character? Absolutely yes. Is it more efficient per unit of real life time?  Not necessarily. I made 600 mil in a week with little game time, yes, but, if all I care about is getting new characters slotted up quicker, I could make 600 mil in less real life time by farming, albeit that would involve a lot more of my game time.

 

 

 

This is a very valid point.  You can spend ten minutes a day marketing for six days and make a *lot* more than farming for 60 minutes straight.  But can you make more farming for 10 hours straight than you can for marketing 10 hours straight?  Personally, I'd still be on the side of marketing, but there certainly is a component where you have to wait for "someone else" to supply you with component pieces and to buy your end product.  I think I addressed this in my 24-hour challenge thread a while back.

[arcane]

Yep, best thing for me seems to be a mix. The only way I worked up the patience for this current run is basically.. I got two characters to 50 and said I would pay for one with farming and one with marketing. Farming for the first one bought me enough time that I wasn’t dying to spend what I’d earned on the market, and now I’ve actually made enough on the market for a full purply build. But I’m a farmer at heart so these are the tricks I have to play on myself to get myself to do something efficient and responsible but not immediately gratifying.

[Yoru-hime]

I've enjoyed this thread. It inspired me to start my own journey through the market.

 

My rules were: No fighting, no drops, no P2W, no XP, just what I can earn off the Auction House starting with ONE Influence. I started up a new character, emailed her exactly 1 Influence and set her loose to see if she could earn a billion.

 

I did make her a PB for the Level 1 Flight. She might be too lazy to fight crime, but she's all for doing things the easy way.

 

She's up to 112 million as of this morning (not counting inventory on hand), and still sitting on zero XP. I have to be careful to avoid that explore badge outside the university so I don't accidentally earn a few points and ruin the whole thing. 🙂

 

I might bend the rules a little and allow myself the Field Crafter P2W purchase just so I can find someplace less crowded to work. Haven't decided yet.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[Yomo Kimyata]

The only issue with doing it at so low a level is that you are going to be crimped by the lack of slots you get at level 1.  AH slots, salvage slots, recipe slots.  But have at it and good luck!

[Yoru-hime]

23 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

The only issue with doing it at so low a level is that you are going to be crimped by the lack of slots you get at level 1.  AH slots, salvage slots, recipe slots.  But have at it and good luck!

Thanks! I definitely wish for more slots, but I'm in no grand hurry. I suppose could go ahead and level up to get more, but that would mean leveling a Peacebringer. 😰 Err, I mean breaking the challenge. 😉

[Ukase]

On 5/9/2021 at 7:46 PM, Andreah said:

I never plan to have to be lucky to get a profit.

 

I work out the averages, and then I count on the law of large numbers for doing what looks right on average in great volume. 

 

I'm going to make a profit doing X ten thousand times over or I'm not going to do X at all.

 

When ever you do a conversion, there are only so many things an IO can convert into. Some of those take you closer to what you want to end with, and some don't. For making, say, LoTG's from a certain start, count the number of equally likely outcomes at each step and then ratio the number that yield a success vs a failure. (Or you can have done it enough times and recorded your data well enough to be confident you have a good estimate of the expected number of trials before success) This probability of success is your Bernoulli sequence rate parameter, and you can use that to determine the average number of conversion attempts needed to achieve success .. 1/p, where p is the probability of success. (In the stat literature, Bernoulli sequences are often termed as runs of successes before a failure, so we're backwards of that -- number of failures before a success. )

 

From this you can estimate your average production cost, and then from that, the cost of the starting input, the cost of the converters, and the market fee you'll need to pay, work out the minimum listing price you can list at for a profit, and compare that to the typical selling prices on the market. Your strategy to choose a price to list at to sell fast may not be at the minimum profitable price, of course, especially in a high volume and competitive market like LotG's, and that's another topic entirely. 🙂

Clearly you're smarter than I am. But if you're doing all that math before you do a conversion...I'd say you're overthinking it. 
Converters are essentially free. Yes, they have an opportunity cost, but they are free. Burn 'em at will. 

I don't have to tell you how they're free do I? (alt account, recycling brute farmers that convert emps into merits into converters) 

If you stick with IOs you're familiar with - solid sellers - oblits, lotg's, perf shifters, Aegis, Unbreakables, certain procs...you already know the opportunity cost. You literally only are laying out influence for the AH listing fee. The rest is gravy. You can sell at a loss, or a profit. Depends on your goals. Why some folks sell an item for 2m when it's clear people are willing to pay 3m...I'll never understand those people who give up 1 million just because...they can, or they don't have the inf to list it higher, or they just want to torture everyone else that knows what the item is worth to most of the other players. 

I remember ...maybe a year ago, a couple of days after the 2xinf/no xp rule came out. Prices of LotG 7.5% dropped from 7M on average to 5M. I still don't understand it. It was only for about a day, a 24 hour cycle. People were willing to pay 7m before. They still are. But now people list them for less than 6m. Why? Because they want them to sell quickly. Why? Because they're too lazy to use multiple characters/accounts to do transactions. Sell 10k of them if you have them. But you can be patient and just wait to rake in the inf by charging the going price. You might get undercut from some folks, but generally, those are the folks that got a lucky few conversions and just want to cash in. The cheaper ones will sell - to a marketer most likely - and get relisted for a better price. But it rarely makes sense to sell something at a cheaper price than you can get. You might as well hand out free inf in Mercy. 

The rest of your post - which I didn't quote - was absolutely spot on. 

[Bionic_Flea]

I sometimes list below "market value" either because I want the quick sale, or I'm too lazy to change the number from the last thing I sold.  When you are crafting and converting, saved clicks are a blessing, not a curse.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I think the fact that different people (who all know their way around the AH, let me tell you) have different pricing philosophies is a good thing.

 

I'd pontificate that how you price an item depends on many factors, but that's pretty obvious to most, I would think.  Some of those factors include your rate of production, the rate of consumption (end demand), how often you want to check in, etc., etc.

 

For the most part, I price to sell towards the low end for anything that I have an assembly line for, even if prices slump on a day to day basis.  If I'm used to producing and selling 50 units a day and prices are low for 4 days, that now means I have 200 units to go.  Maybe that demand will ramp up on high price days, but I'm not going to keep finished inventory on hand.  Work-in-progress inventory, sure, but finished inventory is for someone other than me to spend their market slots and base storage on.

 

But if it's a small market and I have a short- or long-term grip on supply?  SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!

[Aeroprism]

13 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I think the fact that different people (who all know their way around the AH, let me tell you) have different pricing philosophies is a good thing.

 

I'd pontificate that how you price an item depends on many factors, but that's pretty obvious to most, I would think.  Some of those factors include your rate of production, the rate of consumption (end demand), how often you want to check in, etc., etc.

 

For the most part, I price to sell towards the low end for anything that I have an assembly line for, even if prices slump on a day to day basis.  If I'm used to producing and selling 50 units a day and prices are low for 4 days, that now means I have 200 units to go.  Maybe that demand will ramp up on high price days, but I'm not going to keep finished inventory on hand.  Work-in-progress inventory, sure, but finished inventory is for someone other than me to spend their market slots and base storage on.

 

But if it's a small market and I have a short- or long-term grip on supply?  SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!

 

The verb To Squeeze immediately triggers this response in my brain.

Warning: This video contains slightly disgusting behavior.  And redheads.

 

 

[nihilii]

On 5/25/2021 at 5:52 PM, Yoru-hime said:

She's up to 112 million as of this morning (not counting inventory on hand), and still sitting on zero XP. I have to be careful to avoid that explore badge outside the university so I don't accidentally earn a few points and ruin the whole thing

I believe exploration badges give you no XP as long as you have never earned any XP.

[Ukase]

On 5/15/2021 at 12:51 PM, arcane said:

Yep, best thing for me seems to be a mix. 

Absolutely. Marketing by itself - super fast as far as real life time. Super easy. 

Farming is fast, and consistent. I see absolutely no reason why someone wouldn't farm routinely afk with one account, market with the other - and then, after the bids are placed and the items listed for auction, you don't either play a character "normally" if that suits you, or actively farm if that suits you. 

This is what I do. @yomo and I have spoken in DMs about our differing strategies, but we're both quite happy with our ways of doing things, and arguably, the net result is the same, or very close to it. I think we're both at about 300Billion, give or take 5. And I'm fairly certain there are some that have quite a bit more than that - just have no idea who they are. 

I might have more if I didn't badge. Badging requires some afk-farming of an altogether different kind. Sitting in fires, having malta sappers drain you of end until you're stunned, spamming soul drain or judgement, depending on the AT/powersets, all kinds of "busy" work that keep the account busy so unable to farm/market during those times.  And I have 10 badge characters at present. 4 are complete, 6 more are in progress. But that's a different topic altogether. 

[Bionic_Flea]

Ukase is as crazy as I am . . . then he hits turbo!  TO THE MAX!

[lemming]

On 6/3/2021 at 7:49 AM, nihilii said:

I believe exploration badges give you no XP as long as you have never earned any XP.

Yes, at level 1, exploration badges give no XP

[Yomo Kimyata]

One year later, I think it is safe to say that this guide is still accurate.  There appear to be far fewer suppliers in the /AH, and bid/offer spreads are wide.  The best current opportunities appear to be in the PvP and the purple markets -- buy recipes, craft, (maybe convert), and sell.  I haven't had the need or the time, but it pains me to see such fat profits go unchallenged.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 2/18/2023 at 1:05 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

I haven't had the need or the time, but it pains me to see such fat profits go unchallenged.

I wouldn’t want to see you suffer unduly Yomo, so go ahead and just send a few billion on over and I’ll fix that problem for you. 😉 🤣

[ThaliaTitus]

On 2/18/2023 at 2:05 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

One year later, I think it is safe to say that this guide is still accurate.  There appear to be far fewer suppliers in the /AH, and bid/offer spreads are wide.  The best current opportunities appear to be in the PvP and the purple markets -- buy recipes, craft, (maybe convert), and sell.  I haven't had the need or the time, but it pains me to see such fat profits go unchallenged.

"I don't believe you."

 

That was my first thought but not sure why as you have such an honest face (for a Marketeer).  I have been bored with my alts and doing the Pocket D AE Farm thing to PL toons at a certain point and have been playing with some alts with no XP Boosting and doing alot of nostalgic content on both the Blueside and Redside and thought, what the hell, let's give this a try verbatim.  Holy Shit!!! It actually works.

 

I have never had so much fun just buying and selling Ancient Aritfacts.  It is quite humerous with all the AH inventory available and seeing a Toon at level 2 or lower with a quick Million or two and with such little time investment.  Some folks, myself included, are pleased and amazed when some random player trades/gifts you a quick Million while you first visit Ms. Liberty.  This is even better / easier / more profitable.

 

on another note....  "You are and ebil Marketeer" but I like your colors....

 

 

[Black_Assassin]

On 5/11/2023 at 5:27 PM, ThaliaTitus said:

"I don't believe you."

 

That was my first thought but not sure why as you have such an honest face (for a Marketeer).  I have been bored with my alts and doing the Pocket D AE Farm thing to PL toons at a certain point and have been playing with some alts with no XP Boosting and doing alot of nostalgic content on both the Blueside and Redside and thought, what the hell, let's give this a try verbatim.  Holy Shit!!! It actually works.

 

I have never had so much fun just buying and selling Ancient Aritfacts.  It is quite humerous with all the AH inventory available and seeing a Toon at level 2 or lower with a quick Million or two and with such little time investment.  Some folks, myself included, are pleased and amazed when some random player trades/gifts you a quick Million while you first visit Ms. Liberty.  This is even better / easier / more profitable.

 

on another note....  "You are and ebil Marketeer" but I like your colors....

 

 

 

 

Its always been this easy XD

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:27 PM, ThaliaTitus said:

I have never had so much fun just buying and selling Ancient Aritfacts.  It is quite humerous with all the AH inventory available and seeing a Toon at level 2 or lower with a quick Million or two and with such little time investment.

 

I'm not going to claim that the salvage section is the best part of the guide, but if you can buy and sell salvage at a profit, you can probably do it for everything else listed on the /AH!

 

So, you are saying it tickles your funny bone?  

[ThaliaTitus]

On 5/12/2023 at 10:36 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

I'm not going to claim that the salvage section is the best part of the guide, but if you can buy and sell salvage at a profit, you can probably do it for everything else listed on the /AH!

 

So, you are saying it tickles your funny bone?  

Yes indeed, it does and then some.  Now, part of my new Alt Build Methodology, I am going to corner the AH for Ancient Artifacts and gain an easy $1M to $3M influence right off the bat.  Mwahahaha......

[Bananiac]

On 2/18/2023 at 8:05 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

...

The best current opportunities appear to be in the PvP and the purple markets -- buy recipes, craft, (maybe convert), and sell.  

...

 

I noticed that PVP recipies are continuously selling at very high prices compared to the level I was accustomed to a few months ago... Like in the upwards of 2...3Mil range.

Also, supply seems to be a bit scarce recently. Which is a shame really, for obvious reasons...

 

Anybody meddling with this? Is this a knock-on effect of the farming changes? Or what is going on here?

 

If you need to buy a "cheap" PVP at 3Mil, spend another 1Mil or so on salvage and a few converters, and deduct the AH fees for listing at break even price, then you are down to <40...45% margin for the usual sell-wells. At this point the uncommon-to-rare-train becomes much more attractive again, I think...

 

[tidge]

On 5/17/2023 at 5:46 AM, Bananiac said:

 

I noticed that PVP recipies are continuously selling at very high prices compared to the level I was accustomed to a few months ago... Like in the upwards of 2...3Mil range.

Also, supply seems to be a bit scarce recently. Which is a shame really, for obvious reasons...

 

Anybody meddling with this? Is this a knock-on effect of the farming changes? Or what is going on here?

 

My purely speculative guess is that with a new powerset available, folks are buying, and not yet doing anything remotely like "farming" enough to get drops that would otherwise replenish the supply.

 

My rough personal experience running a lot of even-level (or +1) content at x8 is that on average I get either a PVP or Purple recipe drop for 1 hour of solo play. Obviously higher-level content is easier to solo at x8... but it is not common I'll get a PVP recipe on something like a full Synapse TF (although a few weeks back, I ended up with 2!)

[Raikao]

Please explain why you're using "mm" to denote millions?

 

It's either "10mil"

or "10kk" with k standing for a thousand. So 1kk = 1 thousand/thousand

 

The "mm" makes you texts just frustrating to read.

[Yomo Kimyata]

12 hours ago, Raikao said:

Please explain why you're using "mm" to denote millions?

 

It's either "10mil"

or "10kk" with k standing for a thousand. So 1kk = 1 thousand/thousand

 

The "mm" makes you texts just frustrating to read.

 

If that is the most frustrating thing about reading my materials, I'm going to count that as a win!

 

To answer your question, I use that because in my personal and professional background, that is what I have used and continue to use.  I realize that the abbreviation for 1,000,000 does often differ from country to country (and even how that number is written).  Now you also know that there are different conventions in other parts of the world and/or business practices.  Since I know I am the one writing this, and I don't know who is going to be reading it or what their conventions are, I'm going to work with my conventions, especially since they are generally pretty easily understood by my audience.

[Troo]