Twilight Grasp can Self Rez the caster

[Wavicle]

Duplicating this might be very difficult, because you have to time it just right.

 

If you successfully cast Twilight Grasp and then DIE before the animation finishes it can REZ YOU.

[Ura Hero]

Been this way forever.  Most cast powers have this effect.  For example, transfusion can heal even though you die as you are casting.  Not sure there is much that can be done as it is a result of Server/Client timing which is somewhat asynchronous.  Ethernet packets are "in the mail" as other packets are sent and there is some overlap between when they arrive at the destinations, be pretty tough to do this game synchronously and make it playable.

[macskull]

Please don’t ever fix this. 😁

[Galaxy Brain]

[Darmian]

8 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Duplicating this might be very difficult, because you have to time it just right.

 

If you successfully cast Twilight Grasp and then DIE before the animation finishes it can REZ YOU.

Hmm, that's mad.  I've also seen that if you play a Necro MM and have a Soul Extraction Lich, if you die then they, being a different sort of pet, don't dissipate, and they can use Howling Twilight to rez you.  I wouldn't attempt to rely on it but it can happen!

[Monos King]

23 hours ago, Darmian said:

Hmm, that's mad.  I've also seen that if you play a Necro MM and have a Soul Extraction Lich, if you die then they, being a different sort of pet, don't dissipate, and they can use Howling Twilight to rez you.  I wouldn't attempt to rely on it but it can happen!

Side note but you may be remembering something different. Soul Extraction pets don't dissipate after their owners death, but they also don't have Howling Twilight.

[Darmian]

2 minutes ago, Monos King said:

Side note but you may be remembering something different. Soul Extraction pets don't dissipate after their owners death, but they also don't have Howling Twilight.

Possibly I am misremembering it then.  However, since this happened on a solo run there was no one else to rez the old necro MM, they were dead but the Soul Extracted Lich was hanging about.  Cue rezzing. So on a probable misremembering you're positing I may have rezzed myself, as mentioned above, casting the power and dying at the same time?  That seems a reasonable deduction actually if the Soul Extractions can't do it.

[SeraphimKensai]

My Dark/Elec defender said this is working as intended.

[Nayeh]

It's a projectile. You have to wait for it to both hit the target and then return to the caster. I really don't perceive this as a bug but more so a quirky feature of how delayed effects can be tacticool.

[Monos King]

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

Possibly I am misremembering it then.  However, since this happened on a solo run there was no one else to rez the old necro MM, they were dead but the Soul Extracted Lich was hanging about.  Cue rezzing. So on a probable misremembering you're positing I may have rezzed myself, as mentioned above, casting the power and dying at the same time?  That seems a reasonable deduction actually if the Soul Extractions can't do it.

Yeah you probably just rezzed yourself hahaha. How fun.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, Nayeh said:

It's a projectile. You have to wait for it to both hit the target and then return to the caster. I really don't perceive this as a bug but more so a quirky feature of how delayed effects can be tacticool.

Twilight grasp, not howling twilight. It’s not supposed to Rez people at all.

[Darkneblade]

This happens to Dark Servant as well. If it will use Twilight Grasp then die in middle of animation (or expire) Dark Servant rez itself. Then you can summon another dark servant while this one active. It happened more than once.

[Nayeh]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Twilight grasp, not howling twilight. It’s not supposed to Rez people at all.

You seem to be under the impression that Resurrection and a Heal are two completely different things within the game's world. They are both heals, one of which has a defeated ally condition to it. Where do you get your facts from saying it shouldn't resurrect? Where is your proof? Hazy memories?

 

Why you are advocating for a change? You'd rather use strategic Awaken inspirations?

Edited March 16, 2021 by Nayeh

[Wavicle]

I’m not advocating for a change...I thought it was a bug.

[Nayeh]

Then back up your statement with evidence that suggest this is unintended behavior. Otherwise, feel free to flood the Bug forums with bogus reports.

[Wavicle]

Maybe you should chill out. I thought it was clearly unintended behavior, but if not then fine, relax.

[Grindingsucks]

54 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Maybe you should chill out. I thought it was clearly unintended behavior, but if not then fine, relax.

Yeah.  Why him so cranky? 

 

@NayehGo.  Kill Skulz.  Be happy. 😛

[TygerDarkstorm]

I wonder if this was what was happening when I was in an ITF on my fire/dark troller. There would be moments where I would die then immediately come back to life, even my other teammates didn't understand why it was happening, and they couldn't get a rez off before I came back. Never had it on another of my characters, just this one. Turned into running jokes about me being Jesus or something, lol. I can't remember if I was using Twilight Grasp at those moments though, been a while.

[UberGuy]

This isn't happening with Twilight Grasp, but with Howling Twilight.

 

Fundamentally, this is possible because the power summons a pet, and it's the pet that casts the heal that serves as a rez by granting defeated allies 100% of their health. This pet mechanism is used because it's the way in this game to make a different PBAoE happen at the caster's location for an otherwise ranged effect that targets distant foes.

 

Because of how this works, there is a small delay between the casting and when the rez heal takes effect. The power is cast, the pet appears, and the pet fires off the rez. (Like mos pesudopet powers, the rez is actually an auto power, but the pet only lives long enough for it to "tick" once.)

 

Notably, the pet summon, which lasts for 1s, is flagged to persist past the casters' defeat. This is also common with such "ranged power with effect at caster" powers, to keep the effect from failing because the caster died, even though they successfully cast the root power. (Normally, even if you die after casting something, it still affects the targets, but the delay in effect here could prevent that if the pet was dismissed on caster death.) In this case, though, that means the effect rezzes the caster too,

 

Personally, I think it's likely that this behavior wasn't intended simply the power's somewhat unusually detailed effect description doesn't say that it can rez you too. Most likely, I think no one thought about it when designing the power. And if rezzing yourself really was intended to be more than an accidental feature of HT, I think it would be easier to make it happen on purpose. The timing window for pulling this off is extremely small - It's extremely hard to do this on purpose.

 

It's for this reason that I also think no one would ever think to "fix" this. It's basically impossible to abuse, and the only way to "fix" it would be to make it so HT could fail to rez anyone if the caster dies right after popping it off.

 

I have many thousands of hours played on six Dark Miasma characters. I've maybe had this happen once or twice. It's cool when it happens. I'm not advocating for any change to this.

[Wavicle]

It was not HT, it was definitely TG, but everything else you said, Uber, is undoubtedly true nevertheless.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I had it happen to me constantly throughout an ITF because I was playing more aggressively than my slotting allowed for. And I am not a heavy user of Howling Twilight outside of needing to rez people/bosses, EB's, etc.

[UberGuy]

4 hours ago, Wavicle said:

It was not HT, it was definitely TG, but everything else you said, Uber, is undoubtedly true nevertheless.

 

Did know if you rezzed at anything other than full health?

 

The heal for TG, like HT, is also cast by a pet summoned at the caster's location. The heal it emits is not for 100% health. So it should be easy to see if it rezzed you by healing you for its normal amount. If you were at full health, it wasn't TG that did it. (Fully slotted Defender TG should heal for around 470HP, not accounting for set bonuses or other global heal boosts.)

 

I would not expect this to be possible, since the targets for the power used by the pet are

• Self
• Ally (Alive)

In this context,  I would expect "Self" to mean the pet, not the caster of TG (which would not do anything). However, if that's somehow not the case, that would potentially explain how TG could rez you.

 

There is 1000000% no way in hell it's intended that TG should rez the dead.

Edited March 17, 2021 by UberGuy

[Wavicle]

Just now, UberGuy said:

 

Did know if you rezzed at anything other than full health?

 

The heal for TG, like HT, is also cast by a pet summoned at the caster's location. The heal it emits is not for 100% health. So it should be easy to see if it rezzed you by healing you for its normal amount. If you were at full health, it wasn't TG that did it. (Fully slotted Defender TG should heal for around 470HP, not accounting for set bonuses or other global heal boosts.)

 

I would not expect this to be possible, since the targets for the power used by the pet are

• Self
• Ally (Alive)

In this context,  I would expect "Self" to mean the pet, not the caster of TG. However, if that's some not the case, that would potentially explain how TG could rez you.

 

There is 1000000% no way in hell it's intended that TG should rez the dead.

Not at full health.

 

I didn’t get a prompt to Accept a rez, I just started standing up completely to my surprise. It’s not the first time it’s happened.

[UberGuy]

I may see the issue. TG has been changed to use the relatively new Pseudopet rules, where the pet is defined only by a redirection to another power. It seems possible to me that this pseudopet, which inherits its characteristics from the caster, treats "Self" as the original caster.

 

That target should probably be removed. It made no sense for a pseudopet that can't be affected, and it's probably doing something unintended with the new pseudopet mechanism.

 

Edit: After morning coffee it dawns on me that removing the self target might make TG no longer heal the caster, if the "thin" pseudopet is behaving the way we think it might be. Instead, fixing this might require a target condition on the heal effect. Something like "if target>kHitPoints > 0".

Edited March 17, 2021 by UberGuy

[UberGuy]

So I realized I misread TG. It not longer summons a pet. There's a different way to do this that avoids pets, and TG uses it. It's a special attribute called "kExecutePower" and it does basically what it says. You execute a power, immediately, whether or not its a power you "own".

 

And we're told that this is a code level bug with kExecutePower. It simply does not check if the caster is alive or not  (and whether or not that should matter for the power) when it triggers the execution.