Struggle free of mez effects

[Parabola]

With the discussions around the Rune of Protection changes on beta there has been a bit of focus on the mez mechanics in CoH and people's frustrations with them. Of course not everyone will agree but I do find the mez mechanics a little clunky; the binary on/off nature of the mez protection system doesn't seem ideal to me. But we are where we are with the fundamental structure of how mez effects work so I've been thinking about how we might make what we have more fun.

 

It strikes me that the biggest frustration with mez when playing a character without protection is that it takes away all your agency. You either have a breakfree (or a power like RoP) you can click, or you are stuck there for the duration, effectively stopped from playing until it wears off. So my idea is to introduce a 'struggle free' mechanic.

 

Give all primary and secondary click powers the ability to be used while mezzed but instead of having their normal effects they just grant the user mez resistance. So when you are mezzed you have a choice, you can wait it out as you do now or you can spend endurance and power cooldown building up mez resistance to shorten the duration of the mez effect. Quick recharge, low endurance powers would only grant a little resistance, slow recharge, high endurance powers would offer more.

 

I think this would be more fun because at least you would be doing something. In practice you might simply spam your attack chain to reduce the mez duration by a bit or you might have a big hitter like a nuke that you could sacrifice for the sake of ending the mez very quickly. If you were in little danger you would make different choices to when you were in mortal danger and choices are good!

 

I have no idea of the technical feasibility of this overall but I can see one potential issue: blasters defiance. Defiance already has the mechanism that allows low level powers to be used while mezzed. Personally I've always found that a horribly clunky mechanic as well so I'd be happy to see it replaced but others may like it. If it were to be replaced as part of the 'struggle free' mechanic, blasters could simply be given higher modifiers on the mez resistance granted by their powers. They get mezzed a lot so are well practiced at struggling free.

 

As a final thought the idea would be really sold if feedback could be given to the player to show they are struggling free of mez. In an ideal world this would be animation based but simply hovering some numbers over the character's head would be better than nothing.

 

So, any thoughts?

[TemporalVileTerror]

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/27233-what-are-the-petty-but-real-annoyances-in-coh/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-339586

Absolutely!

 

Although, I think using your actual Primary/Secondary Powers might be too much of a departure from the original gameplay, even if I like that idea.  It would probably be disruptive and confusing to other players to suddenly have that show up, and players may feel they're "wasting" their Powers by accidentally using them while under the effect of a Hard Status Effect.

 

Instead I propose a Server Tray pops up with a few new buttons to push.  Either my "Simon Says" proposal from that other thread, or your "Endurance Cost" idea here.  Maybe add another opportunity cost in the form of self-applied Recharge Debuffs or short term reduction of Max Endurance.

In either case, I think it's important that such a feature doesn't instantly end a Hard Control effect, but rather just reduces the length of time it applies while also giving the player something to do; some kind of consideration and thought so they're engaging with the game even while their character is locked down.

 

Also, good call on adding a visual indicator.  Something to let players know that "Yes, you -are- working your way free of this" would be helpful if such a gameplay mechanic were added.

[Replacement]

I like the idea of adding player agency and choice to the moment, but I think your specific implementation won't ever happen.

 

Not only would it require updating every single active-use power, it would need entire new functions (think about how attacks need targets and suddenly instead you're changing it to Self), perhaps enough to warrant a redirect (every assassin's strike is actually 3 separate powers. There's a good chance you would be requiring a similar tripling to get to this point).

 

I think it more realistic you would be granted a new Inherent at level 10 that is gray normally and can only activate while mezzed. It would have it's own cooldown (probably 3-4 seconds), cost Endurance, and add any other minor debuff you wanted. A recharge slow could be a way to get a much gentler version of spending your cooldowns to break free.

 

Oh, just saw Vile's post. Yeah a server tray would be a great idea when the Inherent is granted (and a way to put it on your normal trays and disable server version for the people who apparently need that to enjoy the game).

[Greycat]

I don't know about having *every* power do this... but we already do have one "mez doesn't completely affect me" mechanic. Blasters, after all, can still fire their primary T1 and T2, as well as secondary T1, while mezzed. If it were just those on the other ATs? Sure.

[Parabola]

Yeah I take the point about the recoding of powers and the danger of someone lining their nuke up, getting mezzed that instant and blowing the nuke without realising.

 

I like the server tray pop-up idea a lot. As long as there is a cost you can pay to shorten the mez duration and that a higher cost results in a shorter duration. And that you should always have the option of not doing anything and riding it out as you currently do. I'm more inclined to keep it within the game mechanics than a minigame though. One of the things I like most about the idea of struggling free is how thematic it is, what comic book hero hasn't had to force their way out of a trap at some point? A minigame might be in danger of breaking the sense of immersion.

 

Thanks for the comments everyone!

[Haijinx]

Idk if its feasible in this version of the game.

 

But this is a great idea and definitely belongs in the overhaul reboot cox-ish.

 

Even tanks should have to struggle sometimes, but far less ...

[Parabola]

18 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Idk if its feasible in this version of the game.

 

But this is a great idea and definitely belongs in the overhaul reboot cox-ish.

I think (it was a while ago now) that this is roughly the same idea that I suggested to one of the CoH successor projects. They seemed to want much the same mez system as CoH and I thought this would work with the same setup but be an improvement in terms of gameplay. No idea what they thought of it though, CoH came back and I kind of lost interest in what they are doing...

 

22 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Even tanks should have to struggle sometimes, but far less ...

Yes indeed. If I were totally rewriting the mez system I'd want to find a way that everyone would be affected by it to some degree rather than the 'haves and have nots' mez protection system we currently have.

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, parabola said:

Yes indeed. If I were totally rewriting the mez system I'd want to find a way that everyone would be affected by it to some degree rather than the 'haves and have nots' mez protection system we currently have

Amen

[Moka]

Wait, does Rune of Protection no longer offer mez protection?

[Night]

Carry a few of those with you into missions and you're fine

 

[Parabola]

17 minutes ago, Moka said:

Wait, does Rune of Protection no longer offer mez protection?

The patch currently in testing reduces RoP's duration. This has caused something of a kerfuffle in some quarters. I haven't ever used it so don't have skin in that particular fight but it has brought up the whole subject of how mez works.

 

15 minutes ago, Night said:

Carry a few of those with you into missions and you're fine

 

I think this slightly misses the point but thanks for joining in :).

[Moka]

The duration doesn't honestly bother me as I usually forget to click it anyway in missions on my blasters. The key to winning on a blaster is pure DPS. Not sure what I can say this means for defenders and such, though.

[AerialAssault]

I think some Mezzes have no business lasting as long as they do.

 

I'm looking at you Malta Sleep Dart.

 

Realistically I don't think any mez inflicted on a player should last longer than 10 seconds. Now, if you get chain stunned, that's just plain unfortunate, and you're probably going to get defeated anyway.

 

But apart from that I don't see any issue with the current system. The AT's without Mez Protection have powerful support and control abilities that those with Mez Protection don't have, or in the case of Blasters, heavy ranged damage and also the ability to mitigate some of the effects of Mez through their inherent. I think that's a fair trade-off. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by AerialAssault

[EmperorSteele]

One of the few things I liked about DCUO was their break-free system: you get CC'd, and then you have to spam space or shift to free yourself. Some controls were harder to break free from than others.

 

I can see some people being against this sort of thing being implemented here, though. We have an aging playerbase, and the idea of spamming a button really quickly might not appeal to them.

 

Also, no matter what kind of new mez protection system is put into place, ask yourself: would you want NPCs to have similar abilities? As someone who mains a few controllers I know my own answer would be "no".

[Alchemystic]

Honestly, I only ever see this being a problem when soloing.

 

City of Heroes is a team based game after all. Where one archetype falls short, that's where another picks up the slack. I can't say I've really felt as though I need more mez protection with my squishies, because usually there's somebody on the team with some form of mez remove/protect that can help me out. 

 

That's the dynamic of the game after all, no one archetype is good at everything, but they each contribute a vital part of the team composition. If you're struggling with mez, then it's probably wise to bring a defender, corruptor, controller or mastermind. That, or play an archetype that has mez protection readily available.

 

If you're soloing, then you're making the choice to forgo that dynamic, and the only thing you can do is to make a build where you can compensate for what you are missing.

 

So with this in mind, I can't really get behind this idea, because it's only a problem if A) your team isn't great or B) your build isn't great, both of which you have complete control over.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Tyrannical

[Bill Z Bubba]

11 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

City of Heroes is a team based game after all.

 

No, it isn't. It's a game where you CAN team but it has ALWAYS kept soloists in mind with some exceptions.

 

That covered, add another cheap amplifier to the P2W vendor that ONLY provides mez protection and nothing else, please. Aside from that, add mez protection to a single toggle and for the powerset combos that have zero toggles, add it to the inherent.

 

Thanks for your time.

[arcane]

13 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

No, it isn't. It's a game where you CAN team but it has ALWAYS kept soloists in mind with some exceptions.

Sure you CAN solo but as an MMO it will ALWAYS be naturally more team focused than not in terms of balance. This is of course consistent with your own observations that melee builds do better on average at solo content, clear times, etc. Because it’s ok for some roles to be more team oriented because that is the primary concern.

Edited March 23, 2021 by arcane

[Alchemystic]

6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

No, it isn't. It's a game where you CAN team but it has ALWAYS kept soloists in mind with some exceptions.

 

 

 

 

It is entirely a team based game. It's an MMORPG, that's how these kinda games work.

[Night]

14 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

No, it isn't. It's a game where you CAN team but it has ALWAYS kept soloists in mind with some exceptions.

Uhhh, Massively Multiplayer Online game, emphasis on the multiplayer bit. There are solo AT's, which are Scrapper and Brute. Both of them have inbuilt mez resist, so I guess the solution is, if you wanna solo, use those 😕

[Bill Z Bubba]

30 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

It is entirely a team based game. It's an MMORPG, that's how these kinda games work.

 

So you show 3 ATs that mention teaming out of how many?

[Bill Z Bubba]

29 minutes ago, Night said:

Uhhh, Massively Multiplayer Online game, emphasis on the multiplayer bit. There are solo AT's, which are Scrapper and Brute. Both of them have inbuilt mez resist, so I guess the solution is, if you wanna solo, use those 😕

 

Again, multiplayer means one CAN team not that you should or have to or any other variant.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[Parabola]

The soloing vs teaming debate rather misses the point of this. Yes some AT's largely ignore mez and they are generally considered to be better at soloing than AT's that can't ignore mez. And yes this is an MMO and leaning on your teammates is a legitimate design feature.

 

But neither of those points are what this is about. This isn't about trying to do away with mez, it's trying to come up with an idea to make mez a more fun game mechanic. Solo or teamed, on a squishy you will get mezzed every now and again. As it stands you can do nothing apart from eating a breakfree or firing a power like RoP if you have it. The idea here is to create an engaging way to have more options than that. This is simply for the benefit of gameplay not any kind of balance argument.

[Alchemystic]

10 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

So you show 3 ATs that mention teaming out of how many?

 

The other ATs are the teammates those descriptions are referencing 🤣

[Parabola]

1 hour ago, EmperorSteele said:

One of the few things I liked about DCUO was their break-free system: you get CC'd, and then you have to spam space or shift to free yourself. Some controls were harder to break free from than others.

 

I can see some people being against this sort of thing being implemented here, though. We have an aging playerbase, and the idea of spamming a button really quickly might not appeal to them.

 

Also, no matter what kind of new mez protection system is put into place, ask yourself: would you want NPCs to have similar abilities? As someone who mains a few controllers I know my own answer would be "no".

Yeah I'm not so into the idea of a minigame or spamming a button in this game. We don't have things like that currently and I don't think they would fit. But we do have clicking powers, so if you were presented with a 'struggle' power when mezzed that would reduce the duration at the cost of endurance that would fit with the rest of the gameplay. There could be different variations of this power for expending a large amount of end or a small amount. Something to give the mezzed player a decision to make and something to engage with.

 

As for your second point, yeah this mechanic would be player only. The whole point is player engagement so the mobs would have to miss out on this one!

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

The other ATs are the teammates those descriptions are referencing 🤣

 

Oh, c'mon, we know it's more than three archetypes that have to unnecessarily deal with the idiocy of zero mez protection.

 

I do play one of every AT after all. Not like I'm comin into this blind.