jubakumbi Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 LET ME BE CLEAR There are a lot of people in this conversation who didn't read or care what I opened with and are trying to spin this into some kind of drama. Maybe they just don't understand my motivations and think I'm trying to stir trouble so let me explain. I have reservations about the HC community and leadership. I have questions because I'm open to seeing if I'm wrong and so far I've learned some reassuring things while hearing some that aren't so reassuring. In particular, I'm no longer part of the HC server community, but people have suggested that there are problems with the leadership team of other offerings. That is critically important information if I'm going to continue to be a part of that community -- not drama -- trust. Can I trust the people in charge of the platform I've chosen to be a part of? If you're telling me that's the case, I would like to see some evidence of such because I'm frankly not just going to take your word for it just like you wouldn't take mine in reverse. Is that really so unreasonable? Yes, it is. You are jusy trying to stir up drama where there is none, IMO. You are asking volunteer players that just want to play the game in peace to act like MeToo CEOs and tell you how virtuous they are before you spend your time playing with thier toys. IMO, it's pointless drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloRaptor Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 My question is about community leadership and some of my questions have been answered. My new question is based on the responses I've gotten so far which suggest there are problems with the leaders of the CoH discord community or other projects. Is that true and if it is, [citation needed] I think somebody, I can't remember exactly who but it'll come to me, already responded to this: That's pointless drama IMO and not worth my time (or yours I'd guess). Words of wisdom. If only people would live by them. ...sigh. Okay, so: Is that really so unreasonable? Yes. Yes it is. Period. Because what you're asking is nonsense. These games, these servers and their discords, are an entirely ephemeral exercise in trust. Nobody is going to be able to provide that for you, everyone is going to see things different ways. Some will see comments by mods as totally reasonable, even professional, others will see them as thinly (or not at all) veiled digs at one group or another. Some have even been exactly that, but at the end of the day it just doesn't matter. Play the games or sit on the discords and watch, come to your own conclusions. Coming on here to basically vaguebook about how there are 'trust issues' and how you'd like to know more is, whether you intend it to be or not, literally just stirring shit that has finally started to settle down. critically important information No, it isn't. It is not critical at all. It is, in fact, almost 100% meaningless as far as playing city of heroes is concerned. Pretending otherwise means you are prepared to invest far too much in a bunch of volunteers contributing to a technically illicit hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fifth Horseman Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 What examples? Have you seen any mods of CoH discord bashing HC?Before the "no drama" rule was implemented, I have seen them turn a blind eye to COXG's attempts to smear Homecoming on several occasions, if not outright support those. What do you mean you aren't seeing professionalism and results from other teams? Do you have examples of them being a problem because I haven't seen anything I can recall being like that. What I've seen were multiple petty attempts at rabble-rousing and weaponising their userbase. There was one occasion when - on COH discord, no less - one of COXG's representatives there tried to use the default SMF forum EULA as basis for a claim that Homecoming was selling user data to NCSoft. Then there was COXG's statement on reddit, built with several deliberately misrepresented (if not outright false) claims, basically trying to weaponize the subreddit's population against Homecoming. Then there was the COH subreddit and their discord taking COXG's claims on face value and supporting it with their own "statement" on the matter that just parroted COXG's. To be fair, once the COH subreddit's discord admins realized what their announcement was leading towards (as in: their users conspiring to attack Homecoming servers/team in various fashions), they removed it and made another trying to dissuade their users from taking action against Homecoming. My new question is based on the responses I've gotten so far which suggest there are problems with the leaders of the CoH discord community or other projects. Is that true and if it is, [citation needed]COXG made public statements that constituted a smear campaign against Homecoming. COH discord was complicit in the above, by not clamping down on that crap until Homecoming disassociated themselves from them (Given that the discord claimed neutrality but in practice acted as a hostile party, I was only surprised it took Homecoming that long to make that decision). The COH subreddit is under control of political activists. Their discord server was founded over the COH discord rejecting a mod application made by a transgender political activist, who has subsequently been granted moderator rights on the subreddit and their discord (with the overall impression given being that no interview took place). Their admins have on at least one occasion stated that they consider the notion that their users have basic online rights - privacy, anonymity, control of their personal information, building an online identity of choice / preference - to be transphobic and that, quote, "it negates the point of pride". You are welcome to decide whether that constitutes problems or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhawke Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 This feels to me like someone going into a restaurant, ordering an appetizer and then leaving. Weeks later, they come back, have a seat and begin to grill the staff and restaurant patrons about rumors they’ve heard about this restaurant talking smack about the one down the street. The person doesn’t order, just asks questions while people are trying to enjoy their night out and claims to not be there to cause trouble. My question is why can’t TC let everyone else enjoy their meal? If you dislike the restaurant so much, eat somewhere else. Right? Sky-Hawke: Rad/WP Brute Alts galore. So...soooo many alts. Originally Pinnacle Server, then Indomitable and now Excelsior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healix Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Forever grateful to be back in my city! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloRaptor Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 But Skyhawke, you missed the part about how he heard one of the waiters mutter about how other places were maybe possibly less than perfect and he also needs to know quoted examples with research citations of their wrongdoings so that he can decide if he should eat there, either. Because it's all about trust, and how better to decide if you should trust something than asking a bunch of randos on the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auroxis Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Trust would be less of an issue if the community was more involved in the development cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvernia Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 The COH subreddit is under control of political activists. Their discord server was founded over the COH discord rejecting a mod application made by a transgender political activist, who has subsequently been granted moderator rights on the subreddit and their discord (with the overall impression given being that no interview took place). Their admins have on at least one occasion stated that they consider the notion that their users have basic online rights - privacy, anonymity, control of their personal information, building an online identity of choice / preference - to be transphobic and that, quote, "it negates the point of pride". You are welcome to decide whether that constitutes problems or not. yeah they threw me out of the r/cityofheroes discord for taking every self-assignable role on the server (which i do in every server that has self-assignable roles because it's funny) because some of them were pronoun roles and taking all of the pronoun roles counts as "harassing LGBT people" i guess they want to be a LGBT server first and a CoH server second which is fine but not if they don't believe that genderfluid people exist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korbian Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Seriously, most of the people who are playing here weren't even privy to the drama that happened to get us where we are now. If it weren't for posts like this they wouldn't even have reason to doubt their newfound re-found happiness, because they never even knew about it. What's the worst thing that could happen? They shut the server down and we have to go find a different one to play on? I trust them at least enough not to do that without some warning. But y'all need to let the people work. Stop asking for everyone to justify themselves until they are forcing you to give them your money. Oh, wait, they can't actually do that. ::) That being said, thanks to LEO and SCORE and the HOMECOMING TEAM and anyone else who had a hand in making this happen. I don't care if you are all secretly teamed up with Nemesis and Praetor Cole and the devil itself, NCSoft. I can play my favorite game again and that is all that should matter to ANY of us. <3 <3 <3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fifth Horseman Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Trust would be less of an issue if the community was more involved in the development cycle.And yet the same community would have no issues going to a steakhouse without being more involved in the cattle-raising-and-slaughter cycle... :P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubakumbi Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Trust would be less of an issue if the community was more involved in the development cycle.And yet the same community would have no issues going to a steakhouse without being more involved in the cattle-raising-and-slaughter cycle... :P Yup. Just because _some_ organizations/people are big on constant posts on the Internet about every detail, does not mean everyone is, nor should they be required to do so. Just because an individual or group would like more information, does not mean they are entitled to force that information, yet the Internet runs on peer pressure... I applaud the effort to make sure ones time and resources are allocated in a way that makes sense with ones view of the world. That does not equate to being able to demand everyone give you the whole production lines social resumes. Over a ressurected video game, no less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicebeliever Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 What's there to trust? They aren't collecting any information from apart from my email. They have no payment info, personal information, or anything valuable from me except my time. Seems like the latest patch responded to requests I've seen right here in the forums (whether you agree with them or not, they were still voiced here). So it seem's like they are involving the community. But even if they didn't - if you like the game, play it, and if you don't, don't. They aren't doing this for profit. Everything is transitory - NCSoft shutdown after 8 years, this could shut down after 8 weeks...Regardless, it won't last forever, nothing does... There is no risk in trusting in them, so what do you have to lose? "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmtyrance Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Ok, so up until a couple weeks ago, I had no idea this even existed. I still don't know what SCORE is, honsetly. So, my question (like yours an honest question, not meant to engender drama) is: why does it matter? I'm genuinely curious why someone can't enjoy something at face value. Am I missing something? Why does it matter? Just asking is being sneaky to me also. Can't you just enjoy the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misguidance Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 The OP's posts sound like an odd combination of concern trolling and somebody fishing for information for an article or something. Whatever's going on here, it smells funny to me. OP's first question was answered and I think we aught to leave it at that. Pink Champagne (Emp/Rad) Guide of Misguidance (Dark/Regen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhinoxx Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 The OP's posts sound like an odd combination of concern trolling and somebody fishing for information for an article or something. I had the same thought - it looks like fishing for info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Replacement Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 I could be wrong. Do you have examples? Here's one of the HC mods bashing the others: Based on reading the COH discord I'm not convinced that giving more detail won't still be twisted to fit whatever narrative https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,2875.60.html I'm sorry, no one's commenting on the irony of this? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blayzemaster Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 If anyone wants an example of people passive aggressively bitching about HC, look at the latest post from COXG on the Discord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frakk Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Not interested. Let them have and keep their drama over there. Drama Llama go away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gemini Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Trust would be less of an issue if the community was more involved in the development cycle. Given that the issue is currently about the size of a subatomic particle, becoming less of an issue is really not relevant. The rest of this is not addressed to the person I quoted, its just a general confusion. I think what gets to me most is how people can go on about trust AFTER they have downloaded and installed software from this team. If you don't trust them then why on Earth would you do something so monumentally stupid??!! And to the OP, yes, you are here to stir up drama and trouble. I'm always amazed that people think they are so sneaky that no one could possibly figure out what they're really up to when they are so damn obvious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Zot Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 It boggles my mind when people start agitating for "more community input" on software development of any kind. Since when has multiplying the number of cooks in the kitchen ever improved the food? (Hint: NEVER.) Crowdsourcing software simply does not work. The vast majority of people, even among those who are good at spotting actual flaws and bugs, know diddlysquat about actual programming. Yes, these people occasionally come up with a good suggestion that's actually practical to implement, but it's far more likely that a suggested change will outright break something. Unless you want CoH to look like Dilbert's company made it, back off and let the development team work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Basically, it's not a good sign if Homecoming mods make it a habit of knocking other teams who aren't doing anything wrong. I haven't seen any of that, in fact I've seen exactly the reverse, Rebirth/Reborn//coxg players bashing HC and claiming that it's "just the old SCoRE boys club but on a grander scale" and therefore theirs are better. Honestly this is all I’ve really seen as well. A bunch of “i25 is a dead end” or “homecoming is connected to score and thus evil” mumbo jumbo. All the mud slinging seems to be coming from the other servers against homecoming honestly. I think they are just jealous that homecoming has the largest population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 But Skyhawke, you missed the part about how he heard one of the waiters mutter about how other places were maybe possibly less than perfect and he also needs to know quoted examples with research citations of their wrongdoings so that he can decide if he should eat there, either. Because it's all about trust, and how better to decide if you should trust something than asking a bunch of randos on the internet? Don’t forget citations must be in APA format or no credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarseedWarrior Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 The way I see it is all is that it was their server, how is it wrong to not want to split the community and share your work with others trying to run a private server? Not to mention they did not want the heat, I recall something specifically about sharing the code and would of been really bad if they did. Whats happening here is people are twisting the original statement they made. And just because one person may have said this or that does not mean the entire team is at fault, people need to stop feeling entitled here in the first place, you know very well how people take things way out of contexts these days. Honestly who cares about the drama if patch notes arent enough proof for you well cya and do not let the door hit you on the way out, because they clearly care about the game and the community and thats enough for me and it should be enough for you. We are all here for free remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarseedWarrior Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 LET ME BE CLEAR There are a lot of people in this conversation who didn't read or care what I opened with and are trying to spin this into some kind of drama. Maybe they just don't understand my motivations and think I'm trying to stir trouble so let me explain. I have reservations about the HC community and leadership. I have questions because I'm open to seeing if I'm wrong and so far I've learned some reassuring things while hearing some that aren't so reassuring. In particular, I'm no longer part of the HC server community, but people have suggested that there are problems with the leadership team of other offerings. That is critically important information if I'm going to continue to be a part of that community -- not drama -- trust. Can I trust the people in charge of the platform I've chosen to be a part of? If you're telling me that's the case, I would like to see some evidence of such because I'm frankly not just going to take your word for it just like you wouldn't take mine in reverse. Is that really so unreasonable? Hey bro you have to understand these other servers could possibly been some of the people spreading rumors, im fairly certain ive seen a few reddit posters do this and have post history saying more things about hc before but I could be wrong, most of us who play on hc are level headed and are just kind of tired of all the drama surrounding hc. For all we know you could be doing the same thing. But you seem like a reasonable guy even if it is just for pretend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrmidon Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Everything that has transpired has brought us to this moment when our City has been reborn. That is the only thing that matters now. Playing CoX is it’s own reward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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