Sentinels. Are they underused?

[Galaxy Brain]

1) Just putting it out there but the trapdoor mission makes me so salty as going up against 99.99% Arachnos gives it HEAVY biases, an AE map that perhaps simulates a mission may be a more neutral playing field 😉. The map is also a factor there, yadda yadda. Don't get me wrong, it is a solid test but be very wary that it is not exactly neutral.

 

2) I have some thoughts on the AT here:

 

Though upon a second thought, tackling the Offense vs Defense portion of the equation may have more merit. Having the AT's base form be "not as damaging ... or as tough" as it's peers should be OK, if the idea was that on occasion you could CRANK up the Offense or Defense. The issue to me is more the opportunities are slim both in getting / using them.

 

In short, I feel like they should sorta be like "Bio Armor - the AT" as weird as it sounds lol. Their "Base" form is a balance of Offense/Defense but is not stellar at either. Thanks to their inherent, they should be able to pump up either at a time to excel at offense or defense in a limited capacity. A Sentinel with Offensive Opp should be a real offensive threat in that window, and likewise be incredibly durable with Defensive in the window. It's a matter of making that flow correctly tho.

 

From there, it is not so much "oh, who is absolutely better?" as long as it is on equal-footing / same ballpark and fun to play.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Galaxy Brain

[Bill Z Bubba]

I love the concept. But how can I abuse bouncing between the two modes? Go defensive to take the alpha and offensive to clear the spawn? If the change means bouncing between the two modes as easily as I bounce with bio and staff, then I'm 100% for it.

[DarknessEternal]

9 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

1) Just putting it out there but the trapdoor mission makes me so salty as going up against 99.99% Arachnos gives it HEAVY biases, an AE map that perhaps simulates a mission may be a more neutral playing field 😉. The map is also a factor there, yadda yadda. Don't get me wrong, it is a solid test but be very wary that it is not exactly neutral.

Try the Brutal Mission Simulator.

[Arcadio]

I love sentinels... thematically. But the inherit has got to go. If you're playing with a team, by the time you build up opportunity the mob is mostly dead. Bosses half alive, and you get to choose to amp damage on one of them or not use your T1 or T2 until the next group. It feels beyond terrible to play. And these hypothetical-team-pylon numbers are... short sighted to say the least. (Most developed builds are going to have a source of -res, generally blasters and all melee ATs get much better rotations, etc) It's giving peak forum "statistics." 

 

I personally don't care if sentinel scalars get pushed up, I'm going to keep playing mines regardless. But only having an inherit on one target "50%" of the time just feels dreadful.

[Galaxy Brain]

13 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

Try the Brutal Mission Simulator.

 

[Xeph]

This has been a very active discussion and it does seem like decent solutions have been suggested. I wanted to provide my 2 cents from my own experience leveling and playing a Sentinel at 50.

 

I've got a Dark/Ice/Dark Sentinel that feels great to play. Yeah - Dark is not known for it's damage, and when it comes to burning stuff down it's not the best. The Offensive proc is handy for helping burn down hard targets but ultimately I barely worry about the procs - things just die to fast. I generally ignore the Sentinel's inherent (which I suspect is a red flag to show how little value it provides). Occasionally I will use the defensive proc if I get banged up but that's pretty rare.

 

Now since I've basically burned down the inherent - what do I like about the character then? Why do I enjoy playing it? I think it's the positional flexibility and awareness this provides. Depending on the team make up I can either be Main-Tank or Field Commander. Field Commander meaning I quickly move about the battlefield keeping teammates safe from mobs that are threatening them and keeping the mobs where we want them. My damage output is low but the utility (largely from the Dark power sets) I bring to the battlefield is noticeable and fun - for me at least.

 

For the proposed suggestions throughout the thread the idea of changing the inherent to two different click powers you could use would be awesome. Getting a trigger and being able to crank my damage for a hard target, or having the option to massively bump my defenses would be the perfect solution for my play style.

 

Here's hoping the Homecoming team is at least in agreement that Sentinel's are in a strange place, in balance, right now.

[Underfyre]

4 minutes ago, Xeph said:

This has been a very active discussion and it does seem like decent solutions have been suggested. I wanted to provide my 2 cents from my own experience leveling and playing a Sentinel at 50.

 

I've got a Dark/Ice/Dark Sentinel that feels great to play. Yeah - Dark is not known for it's damage, and when it comes to burning stuff down it's not the best. The Offensive proc is handy for helping burn down hard targets but ultimately I barely worry about the procs - things just die to fast. I generally ignore the Sentinel's inherent (which I suspect is a red flag to show how little value it provides). Occasionally I will use the defensive proc if I get banged up but that's pretty rare.

 

Now since I've basically burned down the inherent - what do I like about the character then? Why do I enjoy playing it? I think it's the positional flexibility and awareness this provides. Depending on the team make up I can either be Main-Tank or Field Commander. Field Commander meaning I quickly move about the battlefield keeping teammates safe from mobs that are threatening them and keeping the mobs where we want them. My damage output is low but the utility (largely from the Dark power sets) I bring to the battlefield is noticeable and fun - for me at least.

 

For the proposed suggestions throughout the thread the idea of changing the inherent to two different click powers you could use would be awesome. Getting a trigger and being able to crank my damage for a hard target, or having the option to massively bump my defenses would be the perfect solution for my play style.

 

Here's hoping the Homecoming team is at least in agreement that Sentinel's are in a strange place, in balance, right now.

That settles that. I'll run up a Dark/Bio Dark/Fire (for variety) Sent on my next validation, my numbers say they do plenty of damage.

Edited May 19, 2021 by underfyre

[Xeph]

1 minute ago, underfyre said:

That settles that. I'll run up a Dark/Bio Sent on my next validation, my numbers say they do plenty of damage.

I could definitely see the Bio Offensive Bonus addressing that issue very well. I'll look forward to seeing the results. If I didn't enjoy Ice Armor so much I'd probably roll one with that setup.

 

One thing I neglect to keep in mind - while my numbers with Dark are low compared to others, it's not a widely resisted damage type. And my basis for calling them low is my level 50 Elec Blaster can 2 shot a minion with meager attacks, where my Sentinel might need to dump a whole attack chain.

 

For what it's worth though I didn't min/max for damage on my Sentinel. I saw that the damage was lacking early on and decided to instead focus on all the utility that Dark can provide and have leaned more into that with my build.

[DarknessEternal]

4 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

You guys want to stop being assholes and just say something useful?

[Underfyre]

Just now, DarknessEternal said:

You guys want to stop being assholes and just say something useful?

Hard pass.

[Galaxy Brain]

Just now, DarknessEternal said:

You guys want to stop being assholes and just say something useful?

 

The Brutal mission sim is very useful, though I do need to edit it some as the feedback has been it is rather RNG-y for some AT's

[Sovera]

3 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said:

You guys want to stop being assholes and just say something useful?

 

You said to the creator of the Brutal Mission sim to try it. And it's not being assholes, this isn't Reddit, calm your tatas. Guys thought it was fun and it was.

[Bopper]

10 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said:

You guys want to stop being assholes and just say something useful?

 

I think you missed the playfulness of Galaxy Brain's joke. 

[Underfyre]

I, on the other hand, am just an asshole that doesn't contribute much lol

[DarknessEternal]

Yeah, I know.  I figured he would be aware of it since he made it.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, underfyre said:

I, on the other hand, am just an asshole that doesn't contribute much lol

 

 Lies. Just watching you banter math with Bopper is worth the entry fee. Not many do that anymore.

[Underfyre]

55 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

 Lies. Just watching you banter math with Bopper is worth the entry fee. Not many do that anymore.

 

Not many numbers nerds it seems. Most people just put up in game results rather than do the math to figure out why they got those results.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, underfyre said:

 

Not many numbers nerds it seems. Most people just put up in game results rather than do the math to figure out why they got those results.

 

That's because we're not mathmagicians like you two. But results even a chimp can test and show.

[Xeph]

29 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

That's because we're not mathmagicians like you two. But results even a chimp can test and show.

That's true in my case as well. I don't know why it works... I just know it does.

 

But there's definitely value in some genuine calculations and crunching to figure out the actual reason it works.

 

Kudos to Bopper and underfyre for their efforts.

 

It would be funny in the end to find out, after crunching all the numbers, Sentinel's aren't as bad as most of us imagine.

[Underfyre]

1 hour ago, Xeph said:

It would be funny in the end to find out, after crunching all the numbers, Sentinel's aren't as bad as most of us imagine.

Oh don't worry about that, they are. At least when looking through the lens of "they're a damage dealing class."  I've posted times from what I would consider the "top end" of Sentinel damage, and was found to be lacking compared to other damage classes.

[Galaxy Brain]

(its funny since as a video game, everything we do is math)

Edited May 20, 2021 by Galaxy Brain

[Seed22]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:43 PM, DarknessEternal said:

Which is hilarious, because Blasters struggle to compete with Scrappers already.

Mine don't. Which one's do?

[Seed22]

On 5/17/2021 at 2:02 PM, siolfir said:

That same argument could be used to invalidate nearly all of the archetypes.

Nah not really. Blasters do great damage, scraps are mini-tanks who deal great damage, Brutes are tanks who deal good damage...and obviously support is always nice. Sents need identity/more damage but like Wave said earlier, they need to be #4 in top damage ATs. Sents right now literally do not do much for a team, they're not a waste of space, but they don't add much to a team.

 

 

As an aside I may sound like I hate the AT, I don't. I want one, but I know right now I'd literally be wasting inf IO'ing one when that same $ can go to a [X] AT and produce way more bang for buck.