Set Me Straight in Energy Melee

[00Troy00]

I remember that, back on Live, Energy Melee was AWESOME...until they neutered the hell out of it with ridiculously slow animations. I see a lot of talk about it lately though, so I'm wondering if that issue's been fixed?

[Bopper]

It got a revamp in i27p1. Overall, it got fixed. Might even be better than ever now that TF and BS got animation shavings, EP and WH got a damage buff, Stun turned into an AoE attack, and Energy Transfer had its -HP softened, its cooldown cut in half, now costs no endurance, gained a partial crit, and mostly does its old fast animation. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 hours ago, Bopper said:

and mostly does its old fast animation. 

 

Mostly being the operative word. Still sucks a butt when your chain has both the long and slow animations.

 

Edit: Style and flow-wise... damage output is quite nice.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[nihilii]

I'll second both posters.

 

EM is better now than ever, and arguably, IMHO, the very best melee powerset.

 

- Single Target damage is HIGH, energy, frontloaded.

- AoE damage is acceptable, with a buffed Whirling Hands. The new cone (Power Crash) is also nice if you lean that way, personally I find myself plenty busy with TF and ET.

- Damage per endurance is through the roof with ET costing nothing. EM is by far the easiest powerset on your endurance bar now.

- ET's self damage is now manipulable into a *heal* thanks to the Scrapper Critical Strikes ATO (if you put it in Total Focus, for example.

 

All of this makes EM very easy to play at low level, at high level, with SOs, with IOs... It starts strong and finishes strong.

 

But... top performance relies on playing a certain way. EM now has a "combo system" of sorts. Loose as it can be, it's still a difference from the pure free flowing style that came before.

That being said, new EM probably still compares favorably to pre-nerf oldschool EM even if you mash keys randomly. And new EM is definitely better than the previous nerfed EM, no matter what. The ONE thing you lose is the guaranteed boss-level stun with Total Focus. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by nihilii

[Marshal_General]

I think of it as more of a priority system when TF needs to come before ET.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Marshal_General said:

I think of it as more of a priority system when TF needs to come before ET.

 

^This.  Less combo and more, "You'll want to use Total Focus before Energy Transfer"

 

Which isn't a big deal really.  First, you get TF before ET.  Next, it's not like the recharge isn't there.  Bone Smasher > Total Focus > Energy Transfer > Whatever.

 

Could even put in Energy Punch before BS.  Throw in a slow, or possibly second fast, ET (if crit happened before).

 

And it's not often I see people not going 1 2 3 4 or some sort of pattern with their attacks and TF and ET are the DPS attacks, so it's not like one wouldn't just go TF into ET before really.  😛

[Elia87]

What secondary would you pair it with for high dmg?

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, Elia87 said:

What secondary would you pair it with for high dmg?

If high damage is the only criteria, I suppose Fiery Aura would suit you well. You get added AoE which EM lacks and you get Fiery Embrace which makes your ET and TF (etc) do 45% more damage.

[Elia87]

3 minutes ago, Bopper said:

If high damage is the only criteria, I suppose Fiery Aura would suit you well. You get added AoE which EM lacks and you get Fiery Embrace which makes your ET and TF (etc) do 45% more damage.

Basically yea i want to wreck stuff, what about /bio?

[Bopper]

Just now, Elia87 said:

Basically yea i want to wreck stuff, what about /bio?

Absolutely Bio. That would be a great pairing that can also provide you great survivability 

[Elia87]

Awesome! I have a Energy/SR stalker, is the dmg different from the scrapper?

[Bopper]

Just now, Elia87 said:

Awesome! I have a Energy/SR stalker, is the dmg different from the scrapper?

The AT modifier is different. And Power Crash's damage scale is weaker on a scrapper than it is on a stalker. Plus you lose AS for whirling hands. So all in all, I prefer EM on a stalker. But you will be happy either way

[Elia87]

I am not sure i like SR as secondary..i should have gone with a different one for the stalker..SR gives me the vibe of weak dmg..

[Safehouse]

As far as secondaries go, I really highly recommend Energy Aura. Safehouse, my Energy/Energy scrapper, is hella fun to play. Plus I like the overall look of EA. I designed the character based on a theme, but the actual powersets feel like they play very nice together.

 

Mind you, I'm still very early in leveling Safehouse and that could change. But with my experience with EA on my Kinetic/EA scrapper, combined with my experience so far on Energy/EA, I think the results are very promising.

[Bopper]

Also, Energy Aura on a stalker is great. I have a Energy/Energy/Mu stalker and it is a beast

[Safehouse]

19 hours ago, Bopper said:

Also, Energy Aura on a stalker is great. I have a Energy/Energy/Mu stalker and it is a beast

I'll admit, part of why I've struggled to get "on board" with stalker is that I didn't like how all defensive sets sacrifice a skill for "hide." BUT, in the case of energy aura, "hide" is actually in the set in some form or another regardless of AT (energy cloak), so I feel like I'm not sacrificing a skill to play a set on stalker. That's just my personal preferences speaking. I guess my thing is - for me to choose stalker, I have to have a character whose thematic purpose really matches the AT?

 

I'm rambling. BUT I'm inclined to believe you on it being a beast, just based on what I know of the archetype and powerset combo.

[Haijinx]

On 6/10/2021 at 3:26 PM, Bopper said:

Also, Energy Aura on a stalker is great. 

 

 

And if anything, under-rated on Stalkers.   It is extremely survivable.  Great when exemplaring.  And the "loss" for the stalker version is simply replacing the buff/debuff Recharge speed aura with a nice set 20% recharge boost, and a Stun aura.  

 

And as a bonus if you pick the Energy Glow effect for the powerset, it will nicely silhouette your character when you are "Hidden" reducing eye strain when trying to see your invisible character. 

[PainX]

has alot of burst not sure if it is the highest ST dps atm but it is up there not very amazing with out IO's though imo abit of a weird set to play with the very low crit dmg which people tend to try and crit TF or ET i personaly favor critting TF but heard others do the ET thing is i just find the heal does not matter to me nor the hp damage from ET

 

that being all said and done i imagine mostly it does not matter what primary you pick there are a few weak one's kinetic, fire and STJ from my experience my personal preference would be claws hands down just does it all AoE ST and feels super smooth something that matters more at 50 imo still have them all yet i go play my claws scrapper at 50 the EM i just leveled taste > raw power

Edited June 12, 2021 by PainX

[JayboH]

On 6/10/2021 at 1:54 AM, nihilii said:

EM is by far the easiest powerset on your endurance bar now.

 

Ehh....  Staff would be, no?  Savage is light too

[nihilii]

51 minutes ago, JayboH said:

Ehh....  Staff would be, no?  Savage is light too

It's very hard to overstate just how much of an end discount is attained by having your best attack be completely end free.

 

A procced out EM chain with fast ET and no slow ET eats about ~2.5 EPS.

 

A procced out Staff chain is about ~3 EPS.

 

If you run fast ET + slow ET in a chain, as some are fond to do, EM's EPS goes down even further.

 

That's attack chains, theorycraft by excellence. Real play has you using TF + 0 end ET 100% of the time, while Bone Smasher and Energy Punch may or may not activated. Pushing the EPS further down.

 

And that is just EPS, mostly the psychological version of being end light (we want to attack as fast as we can, regardless of powerset).

 

When it comes to Damage-Per-Endurance, EM is fantastic. Once again because of ET.

 

Essentially, you consume less end than other powersets attacking at full speed. *and* you deal more damage, attacking at full speed. So your endurance efficiency is greater than a simple look at EPS might suggest, because you defeat enemies faster.

 

But really, I am typing up rationalisations after the fact. My simple experience that leads me to this enthusiastic opinion has been that the way I build meleers (procs procs procs), they ALL need Ageless to sustain themselves.

 

Except EM. I can run procced out EM with just Cardiac - and pick up Barrier as a result.

 

Sometimes I still run Ageless and Musculature regardless, but either way. The existence of that choice, unique to EM for my own builds, easily illustrates just how end light EM is.

 

It's also great fun to have a 0 end attack to fall back to, in extreme situations. Say you mess up your end management, mobs enddrained you, you've got a few points of end left and you desperately want to keep your toggles up, until some helpful end management click recharges... Slow ET, wait, slow ET, wait, slow ET keeps you in the fight until you can pick the pace up again.

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by nihilii

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

It's very hard to overstate just how much of an end discount is attained by having your best attack be completely end free.

 

A procced out EM chain with fast ET and no slow ET eats about ~2.5 EPS.

 

A procced out Staff chain is about ~3 EPS.

 

If you run fast ET + slow ET in a chain, as some are fond to do, EM's EPS goes down even further.

 

That's attack chains, theorycraft by excellence. Real play has you using TF + 0 end ET 100% of the time, while Bone Smasher and Energy Punch may or may not activated. Pushing the EPS further down.

 

And that is just EPS, mostly the psychological version of being end light (we want to attack as fast as we can, regardless of powerset).

 

When it comes to Damage-Per-Endurance, EM is fantastic. Once again because of ET.

 

Essentially, you consume less end than other powersets attacking at full speed. *and* you deal more damage, attacking at full speed. So your endurance efficiency is greater than a simple look at EPS might suggest, because you defeat enemies faster.

 

But really, I am typing up rationalisations after the fact. My simple experience that leads me to this enthusiastic opinion has been that the way I build meleers (procs procs procs), they ALL need Ageless to sustain themselves.

 

Except EM. I can run procced out EM with just Cardiac - and pick up Barrier as a result.

 

Sometimes I still run Ageless and Musculature regardless, but either way. The existence of that choice, unique to EM for my own builds, easily illustrates just how end light EM is.

 

It's also great fun to have a 0 end attack to fall back to, in extreme situations. Say you mess up your end management, mobs enddrained you, you've got a few points of end left and you desperately want to keep your toggles up, until some helpful end management click recharges... Slow ET, wait, slow ET, wait, slow ET keeps you in the fight until you can pick the pace up again.

 

 

 

 

Once you get ET anyway.

 

EM is a little bit of a late bloomer. 

[brasilgringo]

I like EM and I wanted to make up for the lack of AOE, so I tried an EM/Rad with proc'd out Rad Therapy and Ground Zero.  Then I added Fire epic for Fireball, so I can get the crit on it from the ATO (I keep the ATO in TF and my chain usually goes TF to trigger crit, then Fireball, then BS or FB, then ET under fast version).  I really enjoy playing him, though I don't think he has the most optimized single-target chain (though it still feels pretty strong).

 

I guess my biggest "caveat emptors" are that (1) ET's extra damage under crit seems to be capped, and (2) sadly I learned that Scrapper crits don't seem to apply to Ground Zero or Rad Therapy.  Still, at the moment he's my favorite scrapper and among my fav toons.  I heard EM is even better for Stalkers, but I went Scrapp because I wanted the extra crits and I like the 45% +dmg on Meltdown (one reason I slotted it for recharge).

 

Spoiler

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Radiant Soul: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Energy Melee
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Energy Punch -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(7)
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- Ags-ResDam(A), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(7), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(9), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Ags-Psi/Status(11)
Level 2: Bone Smasher -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mk'Bit-Dam%(15), TchofDth-Dam%(17)
Level 4: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ImpArm-ResPsi(21)
Level 6: Super Speed -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(A), WntGif-ResSlow(21)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 10: Fallout Shelter -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), ImpArm-ResPsi(27)
Level 12: Gamma Boost -- PrfShf-End%(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(27)
Level 14: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 16: Radiation Therapy -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(29), ScrDrv-Dam%(29), TchoftheN-%Dam(31), Obl-%Dam(31), Erd-%Dam(31)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33), Rct-ResDam%(33)
Level 20: Beta Decay -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-ResDam(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(34), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(34)
Level 26: Total Focus -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(37)
Level 28: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(37), Prv-Absorb%(37)
Level 30: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), ShlWal-Def(39), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39)
Level 32: Energy Transfer -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Hct-Dam%(40), GldStr-%Dam(42), TchofDth-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Ground Zero -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Dam%(43), TchofLadG-%Dam(43), Obl-%Dam(43), Erd-%Dam(45)
Level 38: Meltdown -- UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(46)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- HO:Endo(A)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(46), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Apc-Acc/Rchg(48), Apc-Dam%(48)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(50), Ann-ResDeb%(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Energy Focus 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Pyronic Total Core Judgement 
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Rikti Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
------------

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Edited June 13, 2021 by brasilgringo

[JayboH]

Yeah I've brought that up recently; it seems unfair that scrappers get the least out of damage auras or basically secondaries when it comes to the main melee ATs.  Brutes get higher damage from fury, tankers get larger AOE.  Scrappers get no crits apparently, which seems contrary to their gimmick and thus get the least out of those types of secondary powers.  Seems wrong.

[BrandX]

13 minutes ago, JayboH said:

Yeah I've brought that up recently; it seems unfair that scrappers get the least out of damage auras or basically secondaries when it comes to the main melee ATs.  Brutes get higher damage from fury, tankers get larger AOE.  Scrappers get no crits apparently, which seems contrary to their gimmick and thus get the least out of those types of secondary powers.  Seems wrong.

 

I believe Spines Damage Aura crits, but yeah, I felt all powers should crit for Scrappers.

[JayboH]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

 

I believe Spines Damage Aura crits, but yeah, I felt all powers should crit for Scrappers.

Primary auras, true, you are right.  There's two I think.  Spines and Radiation Melee