Observations upon return to CoH

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, DrZeus said:

I think this is the mentality I'm talking about.  You've played the game... so you play it in a way that hinders new players.  Of course, as long as you're solo, that's fine.  The problem comes when you attempt to group with this attitude.

You may be making an assumption. Nobody I know does this with new players. When we form up, it's with folks we've done this with before, not newer players. And why? Because most of the time, new players can't afford to be kitted out, and half the time they don't know where to go and who's gonna want to escort someone to Night Ward Mansion so they can get to Cimerora? (I personally don't mind doing it - but I do mind the time it takes if we're doing a speed run. Time is money and all that. ) 

I have spent a lot of time with players new and not so new who have asked questions in the help channel. The way I see it, if a player doesn't want to play quickly, they don't have to do so. And nobody is suggesting a newer player accept a recruiting call for a speedy tf if they have no idea what they're doing. 

I do get that newer players may require a slower pace, though. And I do "Crawls" as part of an sg event twice a week for those folks that want a slower pace. It kills me, because it's so slow, but it gives me a chance to explain things like why Mu Guardians don't close in to melee when you taunt them with six-slotted taunt. And I also make them suffer with a horrible joke now and then. 

[biostem]

3 hours ago, DrZeus said:

Seriously... do what you want by yourself, but once you're in a group there are a variety of playstyles.  And a lot of people try to say that there is only one way to play the game.  I've seen people ask others not to use knockback.  And get really upset about it.  Speedrunning in a group is similar.

The solution is quite simple - talk to your teammates before you actually play any content.  However, if you join an existing team, then it is incumbent upon you to ask the questions and/or decide to leave if you don't like how said team chooses to conduct themselves.  OTOH, start your own team, express how you would like to run things, and if you can get others to agree to that play style, then more power to you!  I mean, you *have* to play in some manner, so better to talk to your teammates and come to some sort of agreement...

[DoctorDitko]

13 minutes ago, biostem said:

talk to your teammates

 

By my WAG, 70% of team issues could be solved with this inherent power.

Great advice!

 

 

[roleki]

The great thing about this game (aside from the fact it stil exists) is that I can pop out of AE on my sub-4-hour 50, run past a bunch of people in the atrium begging to door sit, hop into LFG, and after filtering through the numerous DIB/DFB LF1M, join a PI team where every one of us is at capped def/res, armed with nukes and loaded for 4/8 bears, and it won't matter one whit if the rest of the team is made of sloggers or PL'd doorsitters.

 

People tend to forget that at the end of the day, this is all just rock/paper/scissors.  Don't overthink it.

[Dazl]

4 hours ago, DrZeus said:

Perhaps a solution would be to have the P2W vendor have a setting you can get where you just get a million merits all at once.  I mean, if content is to be bypassed anyway, just let people do it directly.  Don't force people to play the game... or even pretend to.  Just let them get their max level uber characters right from the get go, like they do with bases.  Press a button, get the resources, and do what you like.

The people with a lot of resources had to work for them. We all started with nothing when we joined Homecoming.
 

I was there when the game launched and while I have fond memories, I don’t want to go back to that version anymore. There are other private servers out there that will give you more of that experience like “Rebirth” for example.

 

Live is dead, long live Homecoming! 

[DrZeus]

32 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

 

By my WAG, 70% of team issues could be solved with this inherent power.

Great advice!

 

 

This would Definitely be part of what I was looking for when making this thread.  Advice on how to navigate these issues.  Communication is key, which is one of the reasons I had noticed all the unneeded abbreviations. (Seriously, you're not on your phone... There is a keyboard right in front of you... We can type whole words). It hinders Communication, and as your appropriately facetious tone implies, communication is not common.

 

On a similar note of lack of communication... Back on live people used the lfg tool. No one seems to now. It's a good tool. Any idea why no one uses it?

Edited July 10, 2021 by DrZeus

[DoctorDitko]

Oh, folks use it all the time. Solo, it's the quickest way to Cimerora!

 

I use it also, but only once I've got my team together, to launch the TF.

I've never had any success with the automatic "Join random/selected TF" function.

 

(I suspect because HC's population is ~10% of NC's version.)*

 

The LFG channel is well worth breaking out into its own tab. That's where most recruiting happens these days.

 

 

* plus or minus 9.99999% error bar.

Edited July 10, 2021 by DoctorDitko
footnote

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 7/8/2021 at 5:55 PM, DrZeus said:

The people still playing the game are still there of course, it’s only about half the populace who seems to be trying to game the system instead of play the game.  Perhaps that is inevitable due to how people play games these days.

 

 

Based on my fading memories of the halcyon days of Live, I feel that the player population on HC as a whole is kinder, smarter, and probably better looking than it was on Live.  I suspect that it probably partially due to the fact that the vast majority were players back in the old day and perhaps aged out of some of our general asshattery.

 

But I wanted to emphasize your point above.  It articulates things clearly.  I'm not sure if the ratio is 50:50, but it surely seems like the people trying to game the system are much more in your face than those who aren't.  My two inf.

[DoctorDitko]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

My two inf.

 

And here, sir, is your 19,999,998 change.

Thanks for shopping S-Mart!

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by DoctorDitko

[DrZeus]

On 7/10/2021 at 5:19 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

But I wanted to emphasize your point above.  It articulates things clearly.  I'm not sure if the ratio is 50:50, but it surely seems like the people trying to game the system are much more in your face than those who aren't.  My two inf.

 

I'm still trying to figure out a way to avoid those people in game.  I've learned how to avoid them on the forums.... probably in general avoid the forums.  It seems to be nothing but people who game the system and are happy to tell you you're a cripple if you don't.  Or they'll tell you that you're in their way... there was a thread recently about "how to have a bad time in a task force" that was all about "some people wanted to participate... newbs rofl"    HC may be friendly... the forums aren't as nice as they used to be.

 

Do you have any advice on how to avoid those people in game though?  I want to group... this game does grouping very well.  But most of the time I join a group and next thing you know it there are a few decked out 50's in there and we start running on +4/+8.  Not my speed.  I'm now useless, can't hit a damned thing, and I level so fast that the journey to the next level is just... gone.  I don't earn anything at all.  There's no fun in that.

 

I'm thinking the solution might be with the roleplay servers... people who are interested in the play more than the system... maybe a supergroup?  Maybe the days of PUGS are now monopolized by speed runners.  Not sure, if you've any advice I'd love to hear it.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 minutes ago, DrZeus said:

But most of the time I join a group and next thing you know it there are a few decked out 50's in there and we start running on +4/+8. 

 

I'm going to suggest you start your own groups, and mention what you're looking for in LFG chat.  There are lots of people like you who just want to have fun.  There are lots of other people who just want to get as much reward as possible in as little time as possible, and that's their kind of fun.  It won't be easy and you'll be using more time forming teams than you want, but you may meet like minded people that way, form a SG or alliance, make friends, and play the way you enjoy.

 

[Dark Dove]

52 minutes ago, DrZeus said:

I'm thinking the solution might be with the roleplay servers... people who are interested in the play more than the system... maybe a supergroup?  Maybe the days of PUGS are now monopolized by speed runners.

 

The primary unofficial roleplaying server teams tend to move at a fast clip and PUGs more often than not contain fully built level 50 characters, even in lower level content.  If you consider moving quickly or defeating mobs quickly even at +4/x8 speedrunning, then everything in the game is essentially a speedrun (it's not, that's not what a speedrun is, for clarity) at this point except for solo players, small particular interest groups and the rare balanced on-level team.

 

You can however create an SG or join an SG that is devoted to slothruns if you can find one though, nothing is stopping you from being a leader in the style of play you want, and you can share the game the way you enjoy it most with people of like minds.

[Coyotedancer]

59 minutes ago, Dark Dove said:

 

The primary unofficial roleplaying server teams tend to move at a fast clip and PUGs more often than not contain fully built level 50 characters, even in lower level content. 

 

Yep. My own support characters among them. (They're all fully-equipped 50+ characters... just because all of my characters are...  but were purpose-built to run with mid-level teams. I rarely play them at 50.)

 

So, yeah. If you're putting together a mid-level team on Everlasting, do be sure to mention in your LFG post that you don't want any higher-level types tagging along to spoil your fun. That way those of us who like to spend time exemplared will know to avoid them. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Coyotedancer

[Snarky]

On 7/10/2021 at 6:53 AM, DrZeus said:

I think this is the mentality I'm talking about.  You've played the game... so you play it in a way that hinders new players.  Of course, as long as you're solo, that's fine.  The problem comes when you attempt to group with this attitude.

 

A wise poster above said " it also irks me when people essentially come across as "people should play the game in my prescribed way".  That's essentially what this does as soon as you group.    Seriously... do what you want by yourself, but once you're in a group there are a variety of playstyles.  And a lot of people try to say that there is only one way to play the game.  I've seen people ask others not to use knockback.  And get really upset about it.  Speedrunning in a group is similar.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure these speedrunners would not bother ever group at all in their speedruns if they weren't obligated to.  Getting a group together just slows them down.  But a lot of this content requires groups, leaving them to bring others into bypassing the game.

 

As you can tell from my replies, I haven't put positive or negative valence on a lot of these observations and changes.  There are advantages and disadvantages of each really.  But this particular one... the willingness to try to game the system while in a group... I've never seen good valence in any game, and it is done in a lot of games these days.

 

Perhaps a solution would be to have the P2W vendor have a setting you can get where you just get a million merits all at once.  I mean, if content is to be bypassed anyway, just let people do it directly.  Don't force people to play the game... or even pretend to.  Just let them get their max level uber characters right from the get go, like they do with bases.  Press a button, get the resources, and do what you like.

One of my still favorite activities are PUG.  Errr pick up group task forces. This (to me) is about the most accessible game content i can think of. And i will do it with anyone

 

so, the way i team, i think is not shutting out brand new players at all. In fact i get irritated if someone tries to run almost any task force except imperious at anything besides +0/x1

[Alapaki]

I love how this player base is so passionate with their opinions and observations. It’s unfortunate that some may have had negative experiences but at any rate, I do believe a remedy to that is MORE EXPERIENCES!! 😄

 

We have a plethora of really helpful, awesome people who don’t mind stepping out of our comfort zone and lifting others up. In this game, all things can be taught if there’s motivation on the other end to learn. If you don’t want to learn new things, that’s cool too. You do you. Paragon is everyone’s sandbox. 
 

I for one always think about posts like these when I’m interacting with new/returning players, so for that my good Dr., thank you. See you in the skies. 👋 

[Dazl]

3 hours ago, DrZeus said:

 

I'm thinking the solution might be with the roleplay servers... people who are interested in the play more than the system... maybe a supergroup?  Maybe the days of PUGS are now monopolized by speed runners.  Not sure, if you've any advice I'd love to hear it.

Start your own teams. Explain in the LFG chat that you’re not doing speed runs and don’t want any 50s. There are plenty of teams  to be had, just not enough people willing to lead them.

[JnEricsonx]

I would honestly what percentage of people playing are old-schoolers.  I wanna say probably more than half?

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, JnEricsonx said:

I would honestly what percentage of people playing are old-schoolers.  I wanna say probably more than half?

What do you define old schoolers as?  People who have been playing since Beta?  People who only use SOs?  People who run story arcs?  Narrow this down you might get an answer.

[JnEricsonx]

People who played the game back in the day, from Beta till shutdown, any time in between.

[Snarky]

47 minutes ago, JnEricsonx said:

People who played the game back in the day, from Beta till shutdown, any time in between.

I started with Good vs Evil boxed edition. So the game had been out 2 years I think.  I was Redside a long long time before sliding over to Blue for more activity.  About 6 months Red on Liberty, 1 year+ on Freedumb, then on tto Virtue and mixed Red/Blue.  Lot of Blue TF there with Brickhouse channel.  Until shutdown....sigh.

[DrZeus]

15 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

So, yeah. If you're putting together a mid-level team on Everlasting, do be sure to mention in your LFG post that you don't want any higher-level types tagging along to spoil your fun. That way those of us who like to spend time exemplared will know to avoid them. 

Any suggestions on nomenclature to use? Phrasing that will get more bites?  I ask because of comments like dark dove.. He thinks +4/+8 is what everyone does.. Even though he is responding to a thread where clearly a lot of people don't like that sort of thing. 

 

People don't seem to use the lfg tool anymore, so I can't look there for lower level heroes... I'd like to let people know what they're signing up for in a quick way. I've tried the phrase street level hero, which I think is fitting, but it is not widely used or understood.

[Dark Dove]

17 minutes ago, DrZeus said:

He thinks +4/+8 is what everyone does.. Even though he is responding to a thread where clearly a lot of people don't like that sort of thing.

 

She doesn't think that and she only runs +4/x8 with teams that are capable of that and want to participate in that level of difficulty, I'm not sure what you're misreading but you're misreading a lot.  I don't know what you're thinking I am as far as a player, but I'm certainly not what your misconceptions about a couple of forum posts are.  I'm a quiet "roleplayer" who only plays in pickup groups and experiences all kinds of teams and teams that play in different ways.  I never solo and I always experience the team game, so I've seen it all and I don't run most of the teams I join, while I also don't discriminate on the types of teams I join, fast or slow or built 50's or not.  I think you may just be agitated that I don't agree with your particular mindset that other players should enjoy playing the way you like to play rather than the way they like to play.  Take it back a notch, I'm trying to help you find a way to get what you want and find ways to implement your style of play in the current climate of the game.

 

EDIT:  Talking about me like I'm not in the room is also petty.  Again, take it back a notch.  Address me if you want to address me, we can all act like adults here if we choose to.

 

When I said If you consider +4/x8 moving quickly to be a speedrun, that was pointing at your incorrect assessment of what a speedrun is, not pointing at any desire of mine to see +4/x8 content or any notion that everyone plays at that level.  +4/x8 moving quickly isn't speedrunning.  That's all that comment meant.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Dark Dove

[tidge]

16 hours ago, Dark Dove said:

 

The primary unofficial roleplaying server teams tend to move at a fast clip and PUGs more often than not contain fully built level 50 characters, even in lower level content.  If you consider moving quickly or defeating mobs quickly even at +4/x8 speedrunning, then everything in the game is essentially a speedrun (it's not, that's not what a speedrun is, for clarity) at this point except for solo players, small particular interest groups and the rare balanced on-level team.

 

I don't 'role play' but I do prefer to play lower-level content. At this point I do this almost exclusively with level 50 characters. Aside from being 'better equipped' for low-level missions, the side effect on low-leve missions is that if the difficulty hasn't been cranked up really high many level 50s who are exemplared down can pause during heated combat to chat with the team.

[Dark Dove]

45 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

I don't 'role play' but I do prefer to play lower-level content. At this point I do this almost exclusively with level 50 characters. Aside from being 'better equipped' for low-level missions, the side effect on low-leve missions is that if the difficulty hasn't been cranked up really high many level 50s who are exemplared down can pause during heated combat to chat with the team.

 

I had the same observation since I exemplar a lot.  I'm usually better equipped even if I'm not exemplar too, since I slot attuned IO sets as soon as they become available. It's definitely nice to be able to type something from time to time without getting destroyed!

[BZRKR]

19 hours ago, DrZeus said:

 

I'm still trying to figure out a way to avoid those people in game.  I've learned how to avoid them on the forums.... probably in general avoid the forums.  It seems to be nothing but people who game the system and are happy to tell you you're a cripple if you don't.  Or they'll tell you that you're in their way... there was a thread recently about "how to have a bad time in a task force" that was all about "some people wanted to participate... newbs rofl"    HC may be friendly... the forums aren't as nice as they used to be.

 

Do you have any advice on how to avoid those people in game though?  I want to group... this game does grouping very well.  But most of the time I join a group and next thing you know it there are a few decked out 50's in there and we start running on +4/+8.  Not my speed.  I'm now useless, can't hit a damned thing, and I level so fast that the journey to the next level is just... gone.  I don't earn anything at all.  There's no fun in that.

 

I'm thinking the solution might be with the roleplay servers... people who are interested in the play more than the system... maybe a supergroup?  Maybe the days of PUGS are now monopolized by speed runners.  Not sure, if you've any advice I'd love to hear it.

Take a look through the forums and send messages to the folks who think like you do. Monos King, Oedipus Tex, Galaxy Brain all have expressed feelings somewhere in line with what yours. Y'all should pick a shard and team up.