Focused Feedback: Stone Melee - Changes and Proliferation

[Booper]

This is a Focused Feedback Thread

• Please note that Focused Feedback threads are heavily moderated to ensure they remain on topic.
  • Any off-topic posts in these threads will be removed without warning.
  • The thread will be locked when no more feedback is required, but you are more than welcome to continue the discussion in a new thread.
• The most up-to-date version of the changes will be listed in the first post.
• The changes in each build will be posted as replies.
  • Changes from the previous beta build are listed in green.
    • Green text will become white text in the next set of patch notes.
  • Any changes or fixes that are only relevant to the beta builds are listed in blue.
    • Blue text will be deleted in the next set of patch notes as it is only relevant to highlight changes between beta builds, not a changes from live.
  • Known issues are listed in purple.

 

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Stone Melee

Changes

• Fault
  • This power now is capable of dealing damage against up to 5 targets (10 for tankers) in a cone area between the caster and the Tremor area of effect.
  • Note that although this damage is dealt in a cone, the power is still a Targeted AoE that can knockdown/disorient up to 10 targets (16 for tankers)
• Tremor
  • Cast time lowered from 3.3s to 2.53s
  • Brute Damage increased from scale 1 to scale 1.04
  • Tanker damage lowered from scale 1.1818 to scale 1.04 (the damage of this version of the power was erroneously set too high during the Tanker changes a few pages back)

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Proliferation

This powerset has been proliferated for Scrappers. Unlike the Brute/Tanker versions, Seismic Smash hold is mag 3, not 4. The power has an increased critical hit rate (20%) but does not crit for full damage. Instead, it crits for +28% damage and inflicts double mag hold.

 

You can use the powers of earth and stone to do battle with your foes. Stone Melee allows you to strike with fists of stone, summon earthen weapons, and even quake the very ground itself.

•   Stone Fist  Melee Light DMG(Smashing), Foe Minor Disorient

  • Your stone-covered fists attack swiftly for moderate damage and may Disorient your opponent.

•   Stone Mallet  Melee, Moderate DMG(Smashing), Knockback
  • Your control over the earth allows you to form a mallet of solid stone. This Stone Mallet deals heavy damage, and can knock down weak foes.
•   Heavy Mallet  Melee, High DMG(Smashing), Knockback
  • A more impressive form of Stone Mallet, the Heavy Mallet deals more damage, but is slower to swing. It has a greater chance of knocking down opponents.
•   Build Up  Self +DMG, +To Hit

  • Greatly increases the amount of damage you deal for a few seconds, as well as slightly increases your chance to hit.

•   Fault  Close (Targeted AoE), Minor DMG(Smashing), Foe Knockback, Disorient

  • This powerful stomp can cause a seismic disturbance. This will crack the Earth itself and send a Fault towards a targeted foe, throwing him and nearby enemies into the air and possibly Disorienting them. Fault has a chance of dealing damage to foes in between you and your target.

•   Confront  Ranged, Foe Taunt
  • Challenges a foe to attack you. Useful to pull a villain off an ally who finds themselves in over their head. A To Hit check is required to Taunt enemy players, but is not needed against critter targets.
•   Seismic Smash  Melee, Extreme DMG(Smashing), Foe Hold
  • This massive attack hits with all the force of the Earth itself. It deals tremendous amounts of damage, and may Hold the target (mag 3) if they are not defeated outright.
  • Seismic Smash has an increased critical rate but does not inflict double damage on a critical hit, instead, it adds +28% bonus damage and double Hold magnitude (mag 6).
•   Hurl Boulder  Ranged, Moderate DMG(Smashing), Foe Knockback, -Fly
  • You are able to tear up a chunk of the ground beneath your feet and Hurl it at an enemy. This attack deals high damage, and can knock foes back and even drop them out of the air if they are flying.
•   Tremor  PBAoE, Light DMG(Smashing), Knockback
  • You can cause a localized earthquake immediately around you. This will deal moderate damage to every foe in melee range, while knocking them back.

[Vanden]

On 11/2/2021 at 3:17 PM, Booper said:

• Fault
  • This power now is capable of dealing damage against up to 5 targets (10 for tankers) in a cone area between the caster and the Tremor area of effect.
  • Note that although this damage is dealt in a cone, the power is still a Targeted AoE that can knockdown/disorient up to 10 targets (16 for tankers)

 

This change is a little esoteric. Just to try to clarify for anyone who might be confused by this note, this isn't a nerf or anything, it's a straight buff. Fault is basically two attacks in one, now. It still hits every enemy it did before with the same effects, but now it can also hit things in a cone area that might have been missed by the regular effect of the power.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Vanden

[Wavicle]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:17 PM, Booper said:

 

• Fault
  • This power now is capable of dealing damage against up to 5 targets (10 for tankers) in a cone area between the caster and the Tremor area of effect.
  • Note that although this damage is dealt in a cone, the power is still a Targeted AoE that can knockdown/disorient up to 10 targets (16 for tankers)

 

This patch note seems to have an error in it. Should say FAULT area of effect, not TREMOR.

[Wavicle]

Also, the ingame text for Fault says it has a CHANCE to do damage in a cone. Is it really just a chance?

[Captain Powerhouse]

21 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Also, the ingame text for Fault says it has a CHANCE to do damage in a cone. Is it really just a chance?

Worded that way mostly because it is possible the targets hit by the damage portion are not the same as the ones hit by the knockdown. For someone that does not know the under-the-hood implementation, given independent target selection and independent tohit checks, it might look as "a chance".

[Wavicle]

Any plans to bring this to Stalkers eventually?

[Captain Powerhouse]

Yes

 

[JayboH]

Played with this a bunch on Cryptic, but did not take Fault, and it felt pretty good to me.  Testing showed it as slow clearing but very safe due to the high amounts of CC the set is known for.  I thought Seismic Smash felt fine with its changes.

 

I know Hurl Boulder has prob been sped up since its inception but it could still be a hair quicker IMO.

[Lazarus]

Any reason HEAVY MALLET does not have 100% crit dam.

in game stats show its like 55 or 60% ???

 

this is for the scrapper version

Edited November 6, 2021 by Lazarus

[JayboH]

15 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

Any reason HEAVY MALLET does not have 100% crit dam.

in game stats show its like 55 or 60% ???

 

this is for the scrapper version

I'm sure it's the same reason why Seismic's crit is so small: balance reasons.  It's the entire reason why Scrappers didn't get this set so long ago - and why Super Strength is also not available.  If ported as-is, I've been told the damage would be way too insane.  Don't want Scrappers basically getting Assassin Strike on Heavy Mallet, Seismic Slam, or Knockout Blow.

Edited November 6, 2021 by JayboH

[theDarkeOne]

So happy to have a smashing scrapper. 

Leveled to 50 and ran a few missions (3 in total).

Positive:
It's Stone Melee and bouncing baddies around is still amazing

Plenty of Knockback/down depending on slotting

 

Cons:
Fault seemed to miss the damage aspect every single time even with a 95% chance to hit

Damage seemed below that of my Tank by a wide margin

Seismic Smash didnt really smash so much as insult - the damage may have been tweaked a little to far down

[Hew]

41 minutes ago, theDarkeOne said:

Fault seemed to miss the damage aspect every single time even with a 95% chance to hit

 

You will have to be a little more clear here. You do realize that the fault damage is not the same AOE as the fault kd I hope. The hint is in the power description as to what gets damage, and where. If you are thinking everything is in the same aoe bucket, then that would be why you think this is not WAI.

[theDarkeOne]

1 minute ago, Hew said:

You will have to be a little more clear here. You do realize that the fault damage is not the same AOE as the fault kd I hope. The hint is in the power description as to what gets damage, and where. If you are thinking everything is in the same aoe bucket, then that would be why you think this is not WAI.

No I get it. . . I dont test often but have been here since issue 4 so I am well aware of cones versus targeted.

I simply mean that using Fault resulted in a multiple "Misses" from the cone regardless of my position. . . I know it is a 5 target max on Scrappers and the crew all came tumbling down but reliably I was seeing only 1 "hit" on the damage portion. 

Even went back in this morning and reviewed combat logs during a mission and cone damage rarely hit more than 2 times. . .

 

Again, could be my wonderful luck - because if it werent for bad luck I would have no luck at all - but just an observation on scrapper. Havent had a chance to test on my SD/SM Tank yet.

[Wavicle]

Just now, theDarkeOne said:

No I get it. . . I dont test often but have been here since issue 4 so I am well aware of cones versus targeted.

I simply mean that using Fault resulted in a multiple "Misses" from the cone regardless of my position. . . I know it is a 5 target max on Scrappers and the crew all came tumbling down but reliably I was seeing only 1 "hit" on the damage portion. 

Even went back in this morning and reviewed combat logs during a mission and cone damage rarely hit more than 2 times. . .

 

Again, could be my wonderful luck - because if it werent for bad luck I would have no luck at all - but just an observation on scrapper. Havent had a chance to test on my SD/SM Tank yet.

What were you fighting?

[Hew]

6 minutes ago, theDarkeOne said:

No I get it. . . I dont test often but have been here since issue 4 so I am well aware of cones versus targeted.

I simply mean that using Fault resulted in a multiple "Misses" from the cone regardless of my position. . . I know it is a 5 target max on Scrappers and the crew all came tumbling down but reliably I was seeing only 1 "hit" on the damage portion. 

Even went back in this morning and reviewed combat logs during a mission and cone damage rarely hit more than 2 times. . .

 

Again, could be my wonderful luck - because if it werent for bad luck I would have no luck at all - but just an observation on scrapper. Havent had a chance to test on my SD/SM Tank yet.

This power now is capable of dealing damage against up to 5 targets (10 for tankers) in a cone area between the caster and the (fault) area of effect

It acts the same way as ToF (direction you point it at) but as a narrow cone from you to the target, rather than a fireball effect at the destination target. The cone is narrower (obviously) than the "fireball" fault effect. It isn't going to do a whole lot of amazing on a scrapper, but rather a significant upswing on a tank for larger cone values and higher target counts. I would not look to it as being a notable "fireball-lite" damage effect on a scrapper.

 

tl;dr yes on a scrapper unless the mobs were stacked on each other, 1, MAYBE 2 getting hit with damage is about right.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Hew

[Heatstroke]

Can we please get an alternate animation to Hurl Boulder. Hurl from the super strength powerset IMO looks SO much better than some out of round rock being lobbed ever so slowly at a foe.

[Sovera]

I have to say I haven't tried it yet but it seems pretty weird. Why the needless complication and not just make it a fireball effect? It seems needlessly complicated to have a cone that explodes into a non damaging AoE. Though it's a nice improvement on Stone Melee's lack of AoE.

 

I will need to try it and see how it pans out in actual use though.

[aethereal]

9 hours ago, JayboH said:

I'm sure it's the same reason why Seismic's crit is so small: balance reasons.  It's the entire reason why Scrappers didn't get this set so long ago - and why Super Strength is also not available.  If ported as-is, I've been told the damage would be way too insane.  Don't want Scrappers basically getting Assassin Strike on Heavy Mallet, Seismic Slam, or Knockout Blow.

 

(This is in reference to the crit damage of Heavy Mallet being ~50% of the normal damage of the power)

 

Is this in fact true that it's a balance difference?  Heavy Mallet on Scrappers does 142.64 damage (per in-game tool-tip).  That's a highly damaging power, but it's not one of the true outliers of Scrapper damage powers.  In terms of comparison to other powers that get a crit damage reduction as a balance point, Total Focus does 222 damage, and Energy Transfer does 285 damage.  Clobber does 182 damage and gets a full-strength crit.  Freezing Touch also does 182 damage (albeit as a DoT) and gets a full-strength crit.  Incinerate does 156 damage (as a DoT) and gets a full-strength crit.  Greater Psi Blade does 172 damage and gets a full strength crit.

 

I'm not necessarily arguing against Heavy Mallet getting reduced crits as a balance point -- I haven't tried the set holistically, and maybe in the context of that, it deserves it in a way that's not apparent in a point-to-point power comparison way -- just asking for word of god about whether this is in fact an intended balance point.

[ForeverLaxx]

9 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

(This is in reference to the crit damage of Heavy Mallet being ~50% of the normal damage of the power)

 

Is this in fact true that it's a balance difference?  Heavy Mallet on Scrappers does 142.64 damage (per in-game tool-tip).  That's a highly damaging power, but it's not one of the true outliers of Scrapper damage powers.  In terms of comparison to other powers that get a crit damage reduction as a balance point, Total Focus does 222 damage, and Energy Transfer does 285 damage.  Clobber does 182 damage and gets a full-strength crit.  Freezing Touch also does 182 damage (albeit as a DoT) and gets a full-strength crit.  Incinerate does 156 damage (as a DoT) and gets a full-strength crit.  Greater Psi Blade does 172 damage and gets a full strength crit.

 

I'm not necessarily arguing against Heavy Mallet getting reduced crits as a balance point -- I haven't tried the set holistically, and maybe in the context of that, it deserves it in a way that's not apparent in a point-to-point power comparison way -- just asking for word of god about whether this is in fact an intended balance point.

Well, Stone Melee has a larger amount of single target "big hitters" compared to other sets. It's always paid for this in endurance cost, recharge, and lower AoE damage. The increased number of higher damage hitters probably meant that something needed to have its crit damage reduced in order to prevent Stone from completely shattering the damage records if you got a string of crits on all of them.

[aethereal]

2 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Well, Stone Melee has a larger amount of single target "big hitters" compared to other sets. It's always paid for this in endurance cost, recharge, and lower AoE damage. The increased number of higher damage hitters probably meant that something needed to have its crit damage reduced in order to prevent Stone from completely shattering the damage records if you got a string of crits on all of them.

I mean, maybe!  Or maybe it's a mistake -- god knows we've seen crit damage mistakes before.  I think it's worth asking for clarification.

[Lazarus]

HEAVY MALTETS description says nothing about a reduced crit.

 

and every melee set and 1 "HIGH" dam. attack and 1 "SUPERIOR OR EXTREME" dam. attack

[Jaguaratron]

Stone melee and granite stalkers please

[Captain Powerhouse]

12 hours ago, Lazarus said:

Any reason HEAVY MALLET does not have 100% crit dam.

 

That does not sound right... Definitively not intentional. Only power that should not do full crit is Seismic Smash.

[Sovera]

Fault does not work unless on the ground. Interest to test waning as a Fly user.

 

Might I suggest a compromise where we need to be completely hugging the ground for it to work like with Burn?

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Sovera

[Glacier Peak]

38 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Fault does not work unless on the ground. Interest to test waning as a Fly user.

 

Might I suggest a compromise where we need to be completely hugging the ground for it to work like with Burn?

Hasn't that always been the case with Fault?