Require Two Level 50 Characters to Get XP in AE

[Solarverse]

22 minutes ago, Hardboiled Hero said:

I'm not a great player.  Yes, I know where the positron TF starts. No, I don't know where literally any other TF starts.  Not one of my characters has been leveled 1-50 in AE.  Most of my characters do DFB (a few times, but I never start DFB myself) and then try to get to level 20ish as fast as possible. (Which is why I know positron pretty well.) After that, I normally just do papers/radios until level 20 because I find those groups tend to be the most chill and most fun.  The point here is, doing papers STILL did nothing to prepare me for the few TF's I've done.. or tried to do.  So if the complaint is that people don't know TF's well enough, I'd say "Blame the TF's for requiring too much specific knowledge."  Case in point, even though I know DFB and Positron, that doesn't help me with Ms. Liberty or whatever,

 

  Secondly, What's wrong with PL'ing in this game?  You're not getting cheated outed of the months of time that it took you to "earn level 50 the ol' fasion way" like you may be in some games.  At most these people are getting like a week's "advantage" on other players.  If the people who are getting PL'd are new, awesome!  That means there are new players getting into the game.

 

  I mean over-all, just stop worrying about how other people play the game.

 

As said before, there are tell tale signs when somebody has literally done nothing but PL to 50. They will have certain badges that give them credit for being in AE, they will literally have no other badges other than that because they have literally done nothing else but that. Combine that with the fact they have no clue how to get to Steel Canyon, it paints a pretty easy picture to see. I'm sorry, but I just can't excuse that as something other than what it is.

[Bill Z Bubba]

31 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

As said before, there are tell tale signs when somebody has literally done nothing but PL to 50. They will have certain badges that give them credit for being in AE, they will literally have no other badges other than that because they have literally done nothing else but that. Combine that with the fact they have no clue how to get to Steel Canyon, it paints a pretty easy picture to see. I'm sorry, but I just can't excuse that as something other than what it is.

 

As said before, obviously you care, but so many of us don't.

 

I have a TON of alts that have nothing but AE badges at 50 with fully IOed and T4ed builds because I haven't even bothered to get them their accolades and I'm currently looking at 8 transcendents in email and can easily make more for more alts.

 

If I'm on one of those characters and someone reads my info, if they decide I'm 100% ignorant of the game because of it, that's definitely THEIR problem and not mine. Maybe you should just stop looking at other peoples' character info and judging them for it. Sounds like you'd probably enjoy the game more that way.

[Solarverse]

6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

As said before, obviously you care, but so many of us don't.

 

I have a TON of alts that have nothing but AE badges at 50 with fully IOed and T4ed builds because I haven't even bothered to get them their accolades and I'm currently looking at 8 transcendents in email and can easily make more for more alts.

 

If I'm on one of those characters and someone reads my info, if they decide I'm 100% ignorant of the game because of it, that's definitely THEIR problem and not mine. Maybe you should just stop looking at other peoples' character info and judging them for it. Sounds like you'd probably enjoy the game more that way.

 

It is what it is, man. What can I fricken do about it? Not a damn thing...so it is what it is, my man.

[Solarverse]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

As said before, obviously you care, but so many of us don't.

 

I have a TON of alts that have nothing but AE badges at 50 with fully IOed and T4ed builds because I haven't even bothered to get them their accolades and I'm currently looking at 8 transcendents in email and can easily make more for more alts.

 

If I'm on one of those characters and someone reads my info, if they decide I'm 100% ignorant of the game because of it, that's definitely THEIR problem and not mine. Maybe you should just stop looking at other peoples' character info and judging them for it. Sounds like you'd probably enjoy the game more that way.

 

To be honest, dude...I don't look unless I am given a reason to look. But again, it is what it is. We live in a peachy world full of peachy people playing a peachy game.

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

To be honest, dude...I don't look unless I am given a reason to look. But again, it is what it is. We live in a peachy world full of peachy people playing a peachy game.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Aurora_Girl]

41 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

To be honest, dude...I don't look unless I am given a reason to look. But again, it is what it is. We live in a peachy world full of peachy people playing a peachy game.

 

*Narrator voice*

 

IN A WORLD, WHERE A LEVEL 50 JOINS YOUR POSITRON TASK FORCE

 

ASKS WHERE POSITRON IS

 

HE ARRIVES

 

YOU LOOK

 

TASK FORCE COMMANDER

 

WHAT

DO

YOU

DO

 

 

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

*Narrator voice*

 

IN A WORLD, WHERE A LEVEL 50 JOINS YOUR POSITRON TASK FORCE

 

ASKS WHERE POSITRON IS

 

HE ARRIVES

 

YOU LOOK

 

TASK FORCE COMMANDER

 

WHAT

DO

YOU

DO

 

 

 

I freak the f**k out and post the forums about it!

[MHertz]

8 hours ago, Solarverse said:

My point is, is that there most certainly are new players who are being power leveled to 50...nobody seems to want to admit that though, they use these examples and think that it excuses any and all cases of PLed 50s.

I will admit that it is theoretically possible for someone to be PLed to 50 and have no working knowledge of the game or the zones or the locations of stuff. I have not yet, to my knowledge, ever met a player that I could be reasonably sure would fit this profile. So yes, you could be right. In theory. Lord willin’ an’ the crick don’t rise, with grace o’ God and a long-handled spoon.

 

That’s not the problem people have with your position.

 

There are tons of characters who PLed to 50 that lack those badges and accolades … but still know how to play.

 

There are plenty of characters who played some non-PL way to 50, lack certain badges and accolades, and don’t know how to play.

 

There are plenty of characters who played some non-PL way to 50, lack certain badges and accolades, and also know how to play. They just don’t care about badges and accolades.

 

The problem is that you seem to want us to agree with certainty that a given set of symptoms (lack of badges, accolades, game knowledge) automatically means the player is an incapable neophyte with a PL baby. And we can’t. There are too many other reasons why someone could not know (or not care) about the things you think should be dispositive indicators of experience. And we obviously can’t be certain that the AE was the cause.

Edited January 2, 2022 by MHertz

[MHertz]

Double post.

Edited January 2, 2022 by MHertz
Forum bug double post.

[MHertz]

Double post.

Edited January 2, 2022 by MHertz
Forum bug, double post.

[Parabola]

On 12/31/2021 at 8:45 AM, Excraft said:

You can build characters now that can easily solo anything at +4x8 with ease outside of AE with zero risk of defeat outside of sheer stupidity.  There are people posting in this thread who regularly solo TFs at +4x8 meant for teams.  Are they cheating too?

I've already stated that it's not the survivability of a character that I see as a problem inside or outside the AE (actually in the quote you replied to). My objection is to the mechanics of the AE that allow enemies to be created that cannot harm you. I don't care if there are dev created enemies elsewhere that also cannot harm you, I just don't find that aspect of the AE system to be one that meets my 'good design' criteria. Perhaps also you can point out where I said people are cheating?

 

On 12/31/2021 at 9:07 AM, Excraft said:

Disagree entirely.  I alone know quite a lot of people who are farmers and rabid badgeaholics.  You're also assuming people are farming just for inf.  Lots of people farm up alts for the same reason lots of people run DFB - to skip the lower levels.  I know it's a shock to some, but there are people who don't care for the early game and want to skip it.

Fair enough, I apologise profusely to the farming/badging crossover community. My point was in response to two comments that seemed to be saying that because fire farming doesn't give loads of badges it is balanced against running normal content. I disagree with that, and I very much doubt people are doing much soul searching about the lack of badges they are collecting while they are fire farming. I understand why people farm, it comes as no shock to me at all and I don't have a particular problem with farming as an activity per se, again I just don't like the specific mechanics available in the AE that facilitate it.

 

On 12/31/2021 at 9:07 AM, Excraft said:

I don't think you're understanding some of the builds you're looking at there.  Winter sets provide much much more than just fire resists.  You're also getting big bonuses to recovery and DEF to fire which does work a lot better for mitigation than straight resists.  You can also avoiding certain pool picks by slotting them. 

I understand the builds just fine thank you, and I am aware of the bonuses on winters. You've taken a very narrow reading of my post to assume otherwise, I mention capping fire defence right there in the second sentence. I might almost think that you were so eager to argue with me that you didn't actually read what I said. My point was that you don't need to use an expensive build to farm with and that's exactly what I said in the part you quoted. Yes, you can use winters and squeeze out some more performance but the raw survivability you need can easily be met without them and you will still be able to happily burn down mountains of enemies.

 

I'd like to state that I don't particularly agree with the op (sorry @Apparition). I just jumped in here with an opinion on the AE system; that the ability to choose enemy powers completely freeform doesn't feel like good system design to me and I'm surprised the original devs didn't make further changes to it. And again, that is merely my opinion, and not one that I expect to win forum popularity contests with or that I am campaigning to the current devs about. I understand perfectly that if farming in the AE wasn't so lucrative people would revert to farming missions outside the AE, and I wouldn't have a problem with that because they would be pitched against standard enemies. I have little objection to farming as an activity in of itself* and I certainly have no objection to building very capable characters (ludicrous accusation).

 

* My only reservation with farming in general is if it is the first aspect of the game that a newcomer is exposed to. This is not a top heavy, endgame = the game, type of MMO. I fear a newcomer could arrive with the misunderstanding that the thing to do is blast through to 50 and they could then find a lack of content available and wonder where the game actually is.

[Excraft]

4 hours ago, Parabola said:

I've already stated that it's not the survivability of a character that I see as a problem inside or outside the AE (actually in the quote you replied to). My objection is to the mechanics of the AE that allow enemies to be created that cannot harm you. I don't care if there are dev created enemies elsewhere that also cannot harm you, I just don't find that aspect of the AE system to be one that meets my 'good design' criteria. Perhaps also you can point out where I said people are cheating?

 

Ok but this doesn't work as an argument.  The overall results are the same whether it's content in AE or outside of AE because they're the same mechanics.  It's silly to believe that it's a good design outside of AE while being bad design inside of AE.  Again, AE could disappear tomorrow and people will switch to farming content elsewhere against enemies who cannot hurt them.  Players will build to the weaknesses of whatever NPC group they want to farm and tune their builds to it.

 

4 hours ago, Parabola said:

Fair enough, I apologise profusely to the farming/badging crossover community. My point was in response to two comments that seemed to be saying that because fire farming doesn't give loads of badges it is balanced against running normal content. I disagree with that, and I very much doubt people are doing much soul searching about the lack of badges they are collecting while they are fire farming. I understand why people farm, it comes as no shock to me at all and I don't have a particular problem with farming as an activity per se, again I just don't like the specific mechanics available in the AE that facilitate it.

 

I don't think anyone was claiming that lack of badging is what balances anything out.  They were (correctly) pointing out that XP and inf aren't the only rewards in the game that have value. 

 

4 hours ago, Parabola said:

I understand the builds just fine thank you, and I am aware of the bonuses on winters. You've taken a very narrow reading of my post to assume otherwise, I mention capping fire defence right there in the second sentence. I might almost think that you were so eager to argue with me that you didn't actually read what I said. My point was that you don't need to use an expensive build to farm with and that's exactly what I said in the part you quoted. Yes, you can use winters and squeeze out some more performance but the raw survivability you need can easily be met without them and you will still be able to happily burn down mountains of enemies.

 

No, I don't believe you're understanding the builds you're looking at or why anyone would want to use them.  Sure, you can make a cheap farming build, but if you can afford a better one that offers more dps output and skipping pools for more offense, why would you build on the cheap?

 

4 hours ago, Parabola said:

* My only reservation with farming in general is if it is the first aspect of the game that a newcomer is exposed to. This is not a top heavy, endgame = the game, type of MMO. I fear a newcomer could arrive with the misunderstanding that the thing to do is blast through to 50 and they could then find a lack of content available and wonder where the game actually is.

 

That's a fair concern to have yet I'll temper it with I've yet to come across any new player who was instantly PL'ed to 50 right after logging in for the first time.   I just don't see the flood of first time AE babies that some here are claiming are so pervasive.  It's also important to remember that this game is continuing to be developed by the people here and for all anyone knows the next wave of content updates are going to give all our 50+ incarnates something to do. 

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

No, I don't believe you're understanding the builds you're looking at or why anyone would want to use them.  Sure, you can make a cheap farming build, but if you can afford a better one that offers more dps output and skipping pools for more offense, why would you build on the cheap?

 

 

To get started. (And even a cheap build can be pretty good.)

 

In fact...

 

[ShardWarrior]

17 minutes ago, Greycat said:

To get started. (And even a cheap build can be pretty good.)

 

Sure everyone starts with a cheap build, inside or outside of AE.  I think the point was that you continue to improve your build and once you can afford a better one, you upgrade with better enhancements.  At least that is how I understood it. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[Excraft]

46 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Sure everyone starts with a cheap build, inside or outside of AE.  I think the point was that you continue to improve your build and once you can afford a better one, you upgrade with better enhancements.  At least that is how I understood it. 

 

Correct.

[Parabola]

16 hours ago, Excraft said:

Ok but this doesn't work as an argument. Etc.

Well, naturally I disagree. You're still not understanding what I'm saying, at this stage I suspect deliberately. I'm going to do what I should have before and leave the conversation.

[Hardboiled Hero]

I still don't really understand why anyone cares.

 

  I mean, I can't imagine that I level much faster by doing papers/radios than people do leveling through TF's (except that one has to wait so long for TF's), and I certainly don't get jealous about people who leveled through AE.   If it took me a month or more to get my character to 50 and it only took them two days, I could understand, but it only takes me about 2 or 3 days to get to 50 (when I actually work on that), so it doesn't bother me so much that someone can get to 50 much faster, because I already feel like I'm leveling super-fast.  They aren't ruining the game for me; if anything, they're ruining it for themselves, but that's their problem.

 

 

  I don't think the O.P.'s suggestion would be game breaking. People would still be getting PL'ed after only having played the game for 12 hours or so.  I just don't understand why I (or anyone else) should care how someone else is playing the game, when their play doesn't effect me (or anyone but themselves).

 

  I could more easily understand if the complaint were about people joining a "speed run" TF when they haven't done the TF before.  However, we're apparently talking about normal TF's..  which should definitely be done by, and be open to, people who haven't done TF's before.

 

  I'm not saying you should try to stop caring about people getting PL'ed.  To quote one of the greatest minds from a long time ago and a galaxy far, far away "Do or Do not.  There is no try."

[Aurora_Girl]

*old man cough*

 

Hi, my name is AG, and my namesake was a Winter Lord baby. 

 

I spent most of my 40s in permadebt. I was a hindrance to every team I was on. I six-slotted my blasts with accuracy SOs before ED, and after. 

 

Being a new player and getting a character you know nothing about, in a game you know nothing about, power leveled does have consequences. If you understand those things and work to rectify them, you're golden. 

[Teirusu]

Honestly, I feel like the real issue here is that the rest of the game doesn't give more/better tangible benefits/rewards over just running AE stuff.

 

And, as far as rewards should go; A mission is a mission is a mission.  It shouldn't necessarily matter if it's an AE mission or a non-AE mission.  The rewards should be similar, in that regard.

 

However, for the curated content that's built into the game, there should be more tangible rewards.  Badges are nice, yes, but badges, on their own, won't bring out many people.  But things like Accolades with powers attached to them do.   There's definitely LFG requests for things like Maria Jenkins arc.  Why?  Portal Jockey Accolade.  People setting up farms for fake nems?  Freedom Phalanx Reserve credit.  Requests for Task Forces?  Taskforce commander badge.  There needs to be more of this stuff.  Tangible minor benefits for running the game content.

 

So far, I think the Dr. Aeon Strike Force is a good step towards that.  The D-syncs are nice rewards for running the strike force and I'd imagine it's one of the more popular strike forces out there now.

 

My next thought to get people to go out there and play the content is to give tangible rewards for some of the later 'Badges Earned Badges'  Starting at either the 200 or the 500 badge.  That way, it wouldn't matter what combination of badges you got to get them, but they'd all lead to the same reward.

[Giovanni Valia]

I agree with OP's recommendation for restricting XP gained in AE to established accounts, but I doubt anything will change so dramatically.

 

I recall seeing somewhere awhile back that there was a plan by the HC devs to limit the AFK farming. It would be nice to find out if that will be looked at again. It's disheartening to see LFG populated by numerous requests to AFK sit in a farm, rather than play the game.

 

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

It's disheartening to see LFG populated by numerous requests to AFK sit in a farm, rather than play the game.

 

Why?  You have no idea who those players are.  Honest question - how many times does everyone feel is appropriate to repeat the same story content before it becomes boring and repetitive?  Should Vets with multiple 50s in every AT still be required to play non AE content only? 

[Giovanni Valia]

11 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

Why?  You have no idea who those players are.  Honest question - how many times does everyone feel is appropriate to repeat the same story content before it becomes boring and repetitive?  Should Vets with multiple 50s in every AT still be required to play non AE content only? 

 

Like I said, " I agree with OP's recommendation for restricting XP gained in AE to established accounts", If someone already has a few lvl 50s then sure, PL away in AE farms. New players being AFK farmed in AE is more concerning to me. Also, if people want to continually beg in LFG for a farm to AFK in, why not spend that time instead making their own farming character?

 

I'm not looking to change any opinions, since LFG will just continue to be filled with people begging for free afk fire farms. If that's what people want lol.

[seebs]

Honestly at this point I want an account-wide badge called BadWrongFun for levelling a character to 50 without earning any XP outside of AE.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Giovanni Valia said:

 

Like I said, " I agree with OP's recommendation for restricting XP gained in AE to established accounts", If someone already has a few lvl 50s then sure, PL away in AE farms. New players being AFK farmed in AE is more concerning to me.

 

 

We have returning players who know their way around.  Why should they be punished for it?

We have players with multiple accounts. I think my second account has exactly one 50. How can you tell that from a "new" player?

 

All the suggestions of this sort are like trying to hit a BB in the center of town with a ton of manure dropped out of a helicopter. Sure, you might hit it... but you're also going to cover a lot of people in crap you didn't try to aim at, and they're going to be *very* annoyed.

[ZacKing]

12 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

I agree with OP's recommendation for restricting XP gained in AE to established accounts, but I doubt anything will change so dramatically.

 

What's an established account?  

 

7 hours ago, Greycat said:

We have players with multiple accounts. I think my second account has exactly one 50. How can you tell that from a "new" player?

 

 

Yup exactly.  I've never run into any of these PL'ed brand new players either.