When You Want to Run Solo, What Scrapper Do You Take?

[Frozen Burn]

2 hours ago, 00Troy00 said:

Some have said to me that Imv is a bad choice for a scrapper. I take it you disagree?

 

I completely disagree.  @aethereal explains it really well.  Invuln is great on any AT.  Some nay-sayers may think otherwise since Scrappers have lower resist caps, but Invuln being a hybrid resist/def set - you can lean more into the defense component for great survivability.  All armor sets are better on a Tank - the game is designed that way.  But that doesn't mean they are crap for Scrappers.  It's been a solid set for Scrappers since day 1 and even through all the changes over the years to its current form.

[SeraphimKensai]

4 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

It's been a solid set for Scrappers since day 1 and even through all the changes over the years to its current form.

I slightly disagree. Invuln itself was not that fun at game launch when we had Unyielding Stance until i3. IYKYK. But at least teleport got lots of use.

[Frozen Burn]

18 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I slightly disagree. Invuln itself was not that fun at game launch when we had Unyielding Stance until i3. IYKYK. But at least teleport got lots of use.

 

I hear ya, and I didn't say it was fun... but that it was solid.  🙂  Yes, Unyielding Stance sucked - and not just for Scrappers, but for Tankers too.  

[BurtHutt]

I'm not a scrapper guy but I have been leveling my TW/Bio scrapper. It's been a blast. Pretty pricey build but softcapped in most DEF categories and it hits hard. It's also versatile with Bio, Sorcery and the Soul epic pool. 

 

I guess TW got a 'nerf' but it still causes a lot of hurt.

[SeraphimKensai]

Also reading through this post inspired me to roll a claws/stone scrapper the other night as it was a combo I had never really considered despite having claws and stone armor independently at max level.

 

Well the toon is now up to tier 3 incarnates (Well I have assault, but once I get more threads I'm going to craft a melee hybrid for a taunt aura, not that it would have helped me with soloing Manticore last night. Crey seemed more willing to fight me than run unlike Hopkins last night, but eventually I got him to run into a corner).

 

All in all it's made for a robust resilient toon so far and I'm planning on giving it some harder challenges to see how it stacks up this weekend.

[Yomo Kimyata]

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Also reading through this post inspired me to roll a claws/stone scrapper the other night as it was a combo I had never really considered despite having claws and stone armor independently at max level

This is nice to read.  No one (I don’t think) has the time or motivation to run every combo, so we use mental shortcuts.  Claws is a quick low endurance primary; Stone is an endurance hungry hippo.  On paper, good offset.  

[Erratic1]

On top of what @aethereal wrote, what you pair with DM can make a lot of difference to how much more you squeeze out of the set.

[00Troy00]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:15 AM, aethereal said:

Invulnerable is a solid set on every AT.  It also has a taunt aura on scrappers, which a lot of people really like.

 

It rewards pretty careful IO slotting, in order to maximize its hybrid defense layering -- you ideally want to both get a bunch of defense and a bunch of resistance from your slotting.

 

It doesn't have an endurance tool or an offensive buff (damage aura, +damage, etc), which probably keeps people from rating it absolutely first rate.  I think that in an environment where it's pretty easy to hit most durability goals, people tend to gravitate towards armors that either provide a very easy play experience (sets with taunts/heals/endurance), or else sets that give them a boost on their offensive goals.

 

Edit to add:  Invul does have a sort of offensive buff in terms of +to-hit.  This again might be something that very careful slotting can take advantage of (reduce accuracy slotting to put in more procs, for example), but probably most people aren't fine-tuning at this level and mostly waste the +to-hit.

Which would you say makes for the most durable toon between Inv and Willpower. I tend to lean toward Inv because I like the idea of resistance and defense mixed with perma Dull Pain (although I'm not sure how easy that is to pull off).

 

If it matters, I was thinking of pairing it with Dual Blades or Katana (I'd take energy, but I hate the damned pom poms!)

[00Troy00]

On 8/22/2024 at 11:31 AM, Frozen Burn said:

 

I completely disagree.  @aethereal explains it really well.  Invuln is great on any AT.  Some nay-sayers may think otherwise since Scrappers have lower resist caps, but Invuln being a hybrid resist/def set - you can lean more into the defense component for great survivability.  All armor sets are better on a Tank - the game is designed that way.  But that doesn't mean they are crap for Scrappers.  It's been a solid set for Scrappers since day 1 and even through all the changes over the years to its current form.

Don't suppose you ha e a good build strategy for this by chance? I don't mean to come off lazy. I've n3ver been good at builds (even with Mids)

Edited August 24 by 00Troy00

[Frozen Burn]

24 minutes ago, 00Troy00 said:

Don't suppose you ha e a good build strategy for this by chance? I don't mean to come off lazy. I've n3ver been good at builds (even with Mids)

 

This is my War Mace/Invuln Scrapper which I absoluetely adore and love playing.  There may be better epic power choices to be had, but I leaned into the mace and love the ranged blasts - it's just fun.  And I didn't feel I needed anything else from the epics for survivability - so fun choices were made.  😄  Clearly, with invulnerability, the more foes around you the more defense you get.  There may be better invuln builds out there, but this one doe right well and I've had no issues.  And again, it's really fun to play.

 

Joy of Clubbing - Scrapper (War Mace).mbd

 

 

[aethereal]

On 8/23/2024 at 7:41 PM, 00Troy00 said:

Which would you say makes for the most durable toon between Inv and Willpower. I tend to lean toward Inv because I like the idea of resistance and defense mixed with perma Dull Pain (although I'm not sure how easy that is to pull off).

 

If it matters, I was thinking of pairing it with Dual Blades or Katana (I'd take energy, but I hate the damned pom poms!)

 

Invulnerability certainly has a higher durability ceiling than Willpower, especially on a Scrapper.  You might find Willpower more user-friendly or easier on a low-sophistication build.

[Doomguide2005]

On 8/22/2024 at 2:31 PM, Frozen Burn said:

 

I completely disagree.  @aethereal explains it really well.  Invuln is great on any AT.  Some nay-sayers may think otherwise since Scrappers have lower resist caps, but Invuln being a hybrid resist/def set - you can lean more into the defense component for great survivability.  All armor sets are better on a Tank - the game is designed that way.  But that doesn't mean they are crap for Scrappers.  It's been a solid set for Scrappers since day 1 and even through all the changes over the years to its current form.

This^

A certain Dark/Inv scrapper tanked Recluse (and his Patrons) rather successfully in the early days of IO sets an all Lethal Ladies States TF.  It's a very capable armor set.

[00Troy00]

On 8/25/2024 at 2:36 AM, aethereal said:

 

Invulnerability certainly has a higher durability ceiling than Willpower, especially on a Scrapper.  You might find Willpower more user-friendly or easier on a low-sophistication build.

Why do you say that?

[Maelwys]

6 hours ago, 00Troy00 said:

Why do you say that?

INV has a good chunk of Typed Defense (Smashing/Lethal/Fire/Cold/etc. rather than Positional Defenses like Melee/Ranged/AoE) which can be brought up to Softcap territory and beyond via IOs. It also has some Defence Debuff Resistance (DDR) - meaning that getting hit by attacks that contain Defence Debuffs is less likely to cause a cascade effect of more and more attacks hitting you - and when surrounded by enemies you also get more raw +defense via Invincibility... so it's very unlikely for an INV to begin melting more quickly than you'd expect when it comes under heavy fire.
The Damage Resistance it grants is skewed heavily towards Smashing/Lethal; but that's not a bad thing as a lot of attacks in the game have a substantial Smashing or Lethal component - and you can easily hit the resistance hardcap by IO set bonuses and/or taking "Tough"
On top of that, an endgame INV can sit at the Maximum HP Cap permanently due to Dull Pain's duration lasting for longer than its recharge time (with decent slotting, after Hasten and/or plenty of +Global Recharge bonuses) - the big spike heal can also be handy to keep in reserve for after a big "alpha strike".
Any additional self-healing (via Primaries such as Dark Melee and the likes of the Panacea Proc) or Regeneration (via Slotting and IOs) are gravy.

Willpower gets Typed Defence; but very little to Smashing/Lethal. Its got a little DDR but not a wonderful amount. It has similar levels of Damage Resistance to INV weighted a bit in favour of Psychic (which is occasionally handy) but still needs assistance from IOs and/or Tough to hit the hardcap. It has a lot of Regeneration that scales up when surrounded by enemies, but it's much more common for a WP to experience cascading defense failure and melt when surrounded by tough foes than an INV.
And WHEN it starts struggling... it's got no emergency button to help save it - no Dull Pain - so no big Spike Heal; and lower maximum HP compared to an INV.

Both are good versus most content, but INV's performance ceiling versus very tough foes is MUCH higher than WP's.

The benefit of WP is... it works without heavy investment. Running without IOs and/or at low levels its +Regen and +Recovery will keep you ticking over and at "maximum" unless you're fighting lots of tough foes.

 

Edited August 30 by Maelwys

[Without_Pause]

Take a WP build in a BP mission while solo and just see how high you can get the diff setting to go compared to other armors. I've done it on a Brute. On a Scrapper? (chuckles) You'll need significant mitigation coming from your attack set to feel comfortable on anything which starts to resemble a genuine higher diff setting, and even then, I would consider it iffy.

[aethereal]

13 hours ago, 00Troy00 said:

Why do you say that?

I endorse @Maelwys's answer.

 

In addition, Willpower has an endurance tool, which isn't really necessary on a high-sophistication build but definitely smooths the leveling process especially if you don't like slotting set IOs as you level, or want to do that only a little.

[Sovera]

At the risk of sounding weird Stone is a better WP than WP like WP is a better Regen than Regen.

 

WP's weakness is the lack of defense debuff protection (only 17%) coupled with no resistances since it is meant to rely on those said defences.

 

Generic IOs only:

 

Defences: 4% to S/L, 15% to F/C/E/N, 12% to psi.

Resistances: 22% to S/L, 20% to psi, 5% to F/C/E/N/T.

 

IOs, Tough, and Weave will add to this.

 

So anything that debuffs defences will mulch WP. Then it only has regeneration to regain health.

 

Like Bio it handles generic enemies pretty well (anything strictly S/L, or E/N enemies that don't debuff defence) and hates anything that debuffs. Bio has no resistances to E/N and relies on E/N defences while having no protection against debuffs.

 

 

Enter Stone Armor. Like WP it is hands off being mostly passive other that one buff in Earth's Embrace. It too also has an extra recovery passive (Crystal Armor), but has other perks (recharge in Mineral Armor, damage proc in Brimstone, damage aura in Mud Pots) on top of reaching high defence to all (WP only has native defence to F/C/E/N), having still mediocre defence debuff protection that's nonetheless a bit better than WP (41%), and to top it a decent chunk of resistances that we can bolster with IOs since the defences are mostly handled natively.

 

Generic IOs only:

 

Defence: 25% S/L/E/N. 29% Psi

Resistances: 12% to S/L/E/N, 47% to F/C and 50% to Toxic.

Ah, and both rely on regeneration as their means to recover. WP regens much more on paper (even with just one enemy in range but it goes up the more enemies there are) but in practice the difference is not that high since EE (easily) caps Stone Armor's HP.

 

Scrappers have a low HP pol so the amount regenerated is not large anyway. With one enemy in range WP regenerates 39 HPS (with accolates and still on generic IOs) where Stone regenerates... 33 HPs. Willpower wins the regen race as IOs will make it close on the HP cap. With only generics and accolades it reaches 2k HP where Stone Armor with just EE reaches 2500 (but is capped at 2400 anyway) especially with more enemies around them.... but Stone Armor gets Geode which doubles as heal AND recovery tool and can be up once a minute.

 

The one thing WP has is a taunt aura where Stone Armor does not for Scrappers (boo, remove the fear code already!).

 

Well, that and an easier concept both in name (willpower) and how little FX it covers the character in. Any Captain America/Punisher/Daredevil/non super superhero can use WP but good luck doing that with Stone Armor.

 

 

Summing it up, Stone Armor makes for a good WP with better tools and equally mostly passive without caring about having to juggle defensive clickies. WP is outdated but then so was Stone Armor before the devs gave it a pass so once they get around to WP it will get that buff and polish it needs.

[StriderIV]

9 hours ago, Sovera said:

At the risk of sounding weird Stone is a better WP than WP like WP is a better Regen than Regen.

 

WP's weakness is the lack of defense debuff protection (only 17%) coupled with no resistances since it is meant to rely on those said defences.

 

Generic IOs only:

 

Defences: 4% to S/L, 15% to F/C/E/N, 12% to psi.

Resistances: 22% to S/L, 20% to psi, 5% to F/C/E/N/T.

 

IOs, Tough, and Weave will add to this.

 

So anything that debuffs defences will mulch WP. Then it only has regeneration to regain health.

 

Like Bio it handles generic enemies pretty well (anything strictly S/L, or E/N enemies that don't debuff defence) and hates anything that debuffs. Bio has no resistances to E/N and relies on E/N defences while having no protection against debuffs.

 

 

Enter Stone Armor. Like WP it is hands off being mostly passive other that one buff in Earth's Embrace. It too also has an extra recovery passive (Crystal Armor), but has other perks (recharge in Mineral Armor, damage proc in Brimstone, damage aura in Mud Pots) on top of reaching high defence to all (WP only has native defence to F/C/E/N), having still mediocre defence debuff protection that's nonetheless a bit better than WP (41%), and to top it a decent chunk of resistances that we can bolster with IOs since the defences are mostly handled natively.

 

Generic IOs only:

 

Defence: 25% S/L/E/N. 29% Psi

Resistances: 12% to S/L/E/N, 47% to F/C and 50% to Toxic.

Ah, and both rely on regeneration as their means to recover. WP regens much more on paper (even with just one enemy in range but it goes up the more enemies there are) but in practice the difference is not that high since EE (easily) caps Stone Armor's HP.

 

Scrappers have a low HP pol so the amount regenerated is not large anyway. With one enemy in range WP regenerates 39 HPS (with accolates and still on generic IOs) where Stone regenerates... 33 HPs. Willpower wins the regen race as IOs will make it close on the HP cap. With only generics and accolades it reaches 2k HP where Stone Armor with just EE reaches 2500 (but is capped at 2400 anyway) especially with more enemies around them.... but Stone Armor gets Geode which doubles as heal AND recovery tool and can be up once a minute.

 

The one thing WP has is a taunt aura where Stone Armor does not for Scrappers (boo, remove the fear code already!).

 

Well, that and an easier concept both in name (willpower) and how little FX it covers the character in. Any Captain America/Punisher/Daredevil/non super superhero can use WP but good luck doing that with Stone Armor.

 

 

Summing it up, Stone Armor makes for a good WP with better tools and equally mostly passive without caring about having to juggle defensive clickies. WP is outdated but then so was Stone Armor before the devs gave it a pass so once they get around to WP it will get that buff and polish it needs.

Excuse me while I go roll a Claws/Stone Scrapper =P

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Excuse me while I go roll a Claws/Stone Scrapper =P

 

Only the lack of an agro aura holds me back from delving into Stone Armor with Scrappers.

[StriderIV]

9 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Only the lack of an agro aura holds me back from delving into Stone Armor with Scrappers.

Absolutely, I could just see that being a huge pain solo. If you were making it primarily for teaming though (with someone else on aggro control) man it seems like it ticks most of the boxes 😂

[Errants]

I have a baby Staff/Stone that seems to be working out well, so far... Not into the slotted territory yet, tho.

[R jobbus]

i'd definitely say that stone has done better for me than WP has on scrapper. it's got alot of really good stuff going for it, besides always having to look stone-y even on minimal effects.

 

but i just want to vouch for bio here. ddr on scrapper can be misleading at +4 on cimerorans, it may help a little bit but you still are going to get cascaded into hell, because you aren't a tanker. alot of people choose bio even without ddr because of the versatility, the heals, and the added damage. at +4 x8 on big groups of nasty stuff that can def debuff you, jousting with bio heals/damage can be way more effective than expecting ddr on scrapper to save you, cause it often wont and will just act like it doesn't exist. it's not going to be like a shield tanker than can hurl itself into 3-4 +4x8 cimeroran spawns and solo the entire thing with aoe damage and some kd for mitigation.

 

this is specifically talking about +4 ITFs solo scrapper, at least in my experience

 

i wish scrapper/stone's heal was better but maybe that'd be a bit overtuned with how good /stone is right now. it's definitely a great secondary for sure, but it is hard to argue against bio for me. The only real downside of bio i can see is just learning it in general is more complicated. it's definitely not a 'set your toggles and zone out' secondary

 

edit: i've been trying out a cracked SR scrapper build that can kinda do it.. but the struggle is of course that you're slotting so much hp and def that the acc and damage is lacking. no assault hybrid, no ageless core, etc. it tanks brilliantly though sometimes it just randomly dies to like 4 enemies. but such is SR

Edited September 10 by R jobbus