Props to MMs

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I only use the numpad binds for my MM's, so I never have to worry about that. Since MM's are one of my post played AT's, I don't have an issue remembering what my binds are and what they do. I mean, you do whatever works for you, but it's not rocket science to remember how my pet commands are mapped.

Just picture me smacking my forehead, Homer Simpson style. 

I should also add a thank you to those who have taken the time to offer tips and advice. 

Thanks. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Ukase

[Neiska]

I don't use keybinds either, what I do is drag the commands from the pet window to my tray. 3 Rows of trays, with tray 1 being t1 pet follow, attack, guard, etc. Tray 2 being the same for the t3 pets, and tray 3 being for t3 pet. I also put the all follow, all attack, all defend command there too. So i can still manage all my pets as i need with a few mouse clicks.

 

PS - I use "Advanced" pet window, not the base one.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Neiska
PS

[Clave Dark 5]

I don't use key binds either, I have at best five or six macro buttons in a separate tray.   And if you are defeated, maybe it's not the tool ya know?  Unexpected things happen.

[TygerDarkstorm]

5 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I don't use key binds either, I have at best five or six macro buttons in a separate tray.   And if you are defeated, maybe it's not the tool ya know?  Unexpected things happen.

For sure. Everyone's gotta do what's best for them. The numpad binds happen to work for me, macros seem to work better for others. Even with the binds, I'm an average player at best and definitely still make mistakes and get myself killed on my MM's.

[desarix]

I just use macros. Those are enough to control each tier. If I need an individual pet to move back I just use the command next to their name in the pet panel.

 

I hardly get defeated because the minute I am under threat I order them back to BG mode or run like a bat out of hell. Otherwise I make them all attack one target and it is the one doing the AOE or the healer. If you have one pet that keeps going to melee range (looking at you arsonist and medic) have a macro for that pet with the name to order them back to range. You just need to know which pets are troublesome and control those. They all seem to have individual characters since I name each one ordering them with macros when they cause problems isn't that bad. I don't micromanage because I use tier commands only when all defensive attack and all defensive follow are not enough. 

 

This AT is not one you can stay and take a beating if your pets are not in BG mode. You're fragile once you order them to attack. They are only in BG when they're in defensive follow or defensive stay or defensive goto. Once you order them to attack you have to click the defensive follow for them to return to defensive mode faster then just waiting for it to kick in after they return to defensive follow. That action does not work immediately so if you get hit for a huge hit in between you will die before the BG kicks in. So be mindful of the commands and the time it takes. The only delay is after you order them to attack and follow with a defensive follow. If for any reason you fumble or are slow then run or gauge the situation and don't order attack just stay in defensive follow and they will attack but unfortunately not prioritizing the target you want. So in that case keep some of the pets on defensive and order one tier to attack the target you want using the tier macros.

 

I use a multi button mouse so everything is at my fingertips or rather my thumb. So macros in the first bar after I turned on the naga panel is enough. If you own a multi button mouse they work for the first action bar. They are wonky for the control and alt bars though so I place other stuff there which I click. I have only two pet macros on the first bar all follow defensive and all defensive attack. If I need an individual pet tier to attack or stay in defensive to give me some protection from incoming attacks I use the other macros I made for each set.

 

Like /macro Drone petcom_pow Batt attack. The game recognizes the batt as battledrone. 

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Petcom_(Slash_Command) Look at this too.

 

I also recognize that attack defensive returns them to BG mode after they have finished their attack but there is a window between them giving no protection to you from incoming attacks and then returning to BG mode so you need to click defensive follow to make sure you get the benefit as quickly as possible if there is a chance you are going to be attacked. Their stance is defensive and the pets return to that stance once the attack is over and only then do you get BG mode again. So you're vulnerable during that space of time so to make it immediate click the macro for defensive follow as soon as you can. I am currently level 32 doing +3 X 1  or 2 content and I find this works for me, of course I am no expert just saying what I myself have experienced.

 

There is no such thing as defensive attack as far as BG mode is concerned. You have to follow it with a follow defensive to stay in BG mode while fighting if the encounter is risky for you. When you order them to defensive attack you lose the BG mode. One of the main reasons you die is because you're not following the defensive attack command with a command to return them to BG mode when under sustained attack by mobs. One uses defensive attack is so that they don't go full kamikaze mode and pull other groups but the command does not give you BG protection until they return to defensive stance.

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mastermind_Strategy#Bodyguard

 

 

• Mastermind Bodyguards: You can set any Mastermind pet to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow(*) Orders. Your pets must be within Supremacy range for this function to work.
• Bodyguard Damage Mitigation: When set to Bodyguard mode, the Mastermind and his pets share damage from any attack that the Mastermind takes damage from. Each pet takes one 'share' of the damage, and the Mastermind himself takes two 'shares'. This is in addition to any damage that the pets themselves might incur from Area attacks.
  • Example: If a Mastermind has 3 pets set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with a 100 point attack, each pet will take 20 points of the damage, and he himself will take 40 points.
  • Example 2: If a Mastermind has 3 pets set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with an Area Effect attack for 10 points of damage, then each pet will take 2 points of damage, and he himself will take 4 points. Pets that were also in the Area of Effect will take an additional 10 points each, as normal.

(*) Defensive/Goto and Defensive/Stay also work.

Edited May 3, 2022 by desarix

[No Clucks Given]

On 5/1/2022 at 10:42 AM, pblue said:

As primarily a Mastermind player I really don't feel I deserve props. I pretty much solo all the time I find them easy to play, safe and fun and all this without having to spend much Influence.  I feels like a very forgiving AT.  I have play other ATs, they feel like hard by comparison.  Then again, as my most played character is a Mercs/Force Field and that I also quite like Sentinels, clearly suggests I totally clueless and that I should learn how to play CoH for real one of these days.

 

For what it's worth Thugs/Time should be very strong. I have a Thugs/Cold, I don't even bother summoning the Tier 1s anymore as the character is strong enough as is and the Arsonist, good as his DPS might be, is just annoying.  Time however is a little bit of a late bloomer. Some of the best toys come late, especially if you want to combine them with Mace's Power Boost. 

 

 

Sounds like you’re having fun playing the game. I wouldn’t “learn how to play for real”

[brasilgringo]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:50 PM, paco6381 said:

 

In case you haven't really paid much attention to the following thread, it's a bunch of key binds that are already set up for you, and I think quite a few people use them.  For me, I took it and modified to make it a bit simpler (for me at least).  With 7 keys, I can select either a single tier of pets (or all pets) and do a go to, set to bodyguard mode, or attack.  

I use Z to select Tier 1, X to select Tier 2, C to select Tier 3, or ` (tilde) to select all pets.

 

Then, I use my two mouse buttons to either send the group to a location or set the group to defensive/follow.  Lastly, I use the 1 key for the group to Attack/Aggressive.

 

you must use Sandolphan's binds...'nuff said.

[Nemu]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:12 AM, Ukase said:

A bind? That puts me in a bind. 
 

Using keybinds for this would be impractical at best, at least for me. There are only so many keys on the keyboard. How would anyone remember what each key was for? With the macro, there's at least some visual clue, presumably an abbreviation or acronym. 

I already have a bind for V,B,N, H, I, O, P, S, Z, T,M, N - which are the same for every character so I can keep them straight. Keybinds for all those pet options? I don't have enough keys. 
And I can't use the number pad because my right hand is on the mouse if it's not on the arrow keys moving the character about. 

 

As it stands now, I have the broad macros where I give the pets direction as a group. Telling one to go off and do X ...that opens up a lot of options, but requires way too many keys to have a different macro or keybind for each type of instruction. Surely this is the way of madness. Why would anyone be willing to entertain this level of control over a mindless henchman? More to the point, is it necessary? Or just optimal? I'd prefer to be optimal. No sense doing something half-assed. But, with the way I move a character, (arrow keys), I may be stuck in at a notch just above mediocrity. 

This is what I do Ukase:

 

Chain petcomall attack to a power, like a MM personal attack

Chain petcomall follow defensive to a travel power

 

You don't need binds for each tier of pets, that bind guide is overly complex and hardly practical for 99% of play situations, although it is a fantastic showcase of CoH's bind capabilities. In today's meta, you either tell all your pets to focus fire on a target or you are telling them to go into BG mode and follow you. Occasionally you need to tell them to goto spot X. That's about it.

 

It's easy today to build for survival so that you can just tank the alpha for the henchmen. You'll lose some T1 and occasionally T2s from time to time but it's easy enough to re-summon them.

 

If you are binding tray locations rather than specific powers and you want to 1 click summon your henchmen, you can create macros for each tier to powexelocation_self the henchmen and put those macros in the tray positions that you've bound keys to.

 

If you want to get really fancy and do both upgrades for your henchmen with one key you can create rotating bind files to do so.

 

Also, you can bind shift+those keys as well to give yourself some more bind keys.

 

If you are using WASD as movement keys, consider moving those to ERTF, that setup opens up some real-estate and gives your pinky some purpose other than hitting shift or tab.

[Fira]

I use something similar to what Nemu said personally

 

Spoiler

 

FGHV not ERTF here but similar and easily accessible

F2/F3/4 are for shenanigans, but F1 can be useful eg. on Robotics to aim missiles while retaining bodyguard

 

(F)ire

(G)oto

(H)old

 

You obviously don't need that much especially if you have trays for basic stuff.

 

 

Desarix mentioned something critically important regarding bodyguard so i'll take liberty of saying it again. TL;DR:, Pets in 'Aggressive Stance' or 'Defensive Stance, Attack target order' don't protect you!

 

So you want to be conservative when it comes to attack order. I personally switch stance separately. A MM with bodyguard hits about the best mitigation in the game, but without it, you might as well reverse that...

 

'Defensive Follow' is good as panic key for all sorts of situations, be it protection, or keeping them from making a mess. If there's one useful bind, it's clearly this.

[desarix]

I do not know what my problem was but I just reread what I wrote and my word I just repeated myself several times in those paragraphs. Sorry for the messy delivery but Fira was very clear and concise.

[Riverdusk]

The one different macro I'll set up is to split a few of my pets between defensive follow and attack aggressive.  You can still get a lot of mitigation from even a few pets in bodyguard mode.  This prevents the great annoyance to me of the pets suddenly all stopping their attacks with an enemy or two still having a bit of health left because the enemy hasn't attacked recently enough.  Then you get this fun staring contest.  This is a bigger problem when you have a secondary with a lot of slows (like time, cold, etc.).   Keeping some in aggressive also helps start things off as the bodyguard pets also respond if any other pets get attacked.  It just makes things smoother to me without having to issue as many commands and allows me to almost go on auto pilot while still being safe.

 

If you are in a tougher situation of course, you can quickly go full bodyguard.

 

As to dying, probably one of the biggest dangers when I play a MM?  Bank missions.  For some reason my pets like to stand around doing nothing for a while when you first enter the bank door.  The same time that you often have a big boss or even an AV waiting for you. 

[Ukase]

I have recently gotten to level 43 with the MM. At present, the death count remains at 3, and once I got a bit of recharge on Chrono-shift, things have been easy enough to up the diff to +2/6. My character can take more, but when I tried +2/8, the trio of thugs, particularly the arsonist would die more often than not. Sure, it's easy to resummon, but then I have to equip and upgrade, and well, I'd rather just do that once per mission and forget about it. Obviously, it takes a bit longer than +1, but I'm anxious to get this thing complete and then start another powerset. 

I'll get this to 50, no doubt. Incarnating will be annoying, simply because every t-4 effort is a bit of a grind. And that's kind of ridiculous in contrast to the way things were before shutdown. 
I've solo'd the entire way up to this point, except for an MSR at level 36, and the patron unlock in the mid-20's. (two defeats in that mess!) so, teaming with it is a bit intimidating. Even in BG mode, the pets are stupid. I put them on Follow/Defensive, but the Bruiser leads - he doesn't follow - once I initiate the fights. The rest seem to have their own minds about who to tackle, which is fine. They do respond to direct commands when given, so can't ask for much more than that. I did find it interesting when they say "I can't see nothing!". 

If only I could change the way they look. I would prefer to not hang out with "thugs" and make them look more like gangsters, or bikers, like the bruiser, rather than these scrawny dudes. 

[desarix]

Thought I would share this I was doing that Mercy quest the one about that seer and her brother and I went in to get Wretch thinking it was set at +2X1 at level 20 but it was at +3X1 and with those Arachnos huge drones and Mu and stuff (all purple con) I was really having a hard time. I did try to pull them one by one but that very big drone had flown up and was demolishing my ninjas. I just could not manage it and had to keep running back through the sewer tunnels and the drone didn't follow when all my pets were dead. At that point I checked and I realised it was +3 but since I was halfway I decided to push through. I resummoned and when I came back through the tunnels and I could not find where that drone had gone. I had not died but my pets had died at least 7 times already.

 

My secondary was dark. I had mostly generic and single origins but I completed and was leading Wretch out and he spotted the drone up top. It had flown all the way up to one of the platforms but with Wretch's help I killed it.

 

I am sure what I did is nothing to crow about but I felt pretty happy that I actually completed something that looked quite hard. It gave me a nice feeling to have done that at level 20.

[pblue]

10 hours ago, Ukase said:

IIf only I could change the way they look. I would prefer to not hang out with "thugs" and make them look more like gangsters, or bikers, like the bruiser, rather than these scrawny dudes. 

 

I agree, they look puny. On my Incarnate level Thungs/Cold, even solo, I only summon my Tier 1 for tough fights, like another Gang War.

[Ukase]

13 hours ago, desarix said:

Thought I would share this I was doing that Mercy quest the one about that seer and her brother and I went in to get Wretch thinking it was set at +2X1 at level 20 but it was at +3X1 and with those Arachnos huge drones and Mu and stuff (all purple con) I was really having a hard time. I did try to pull them one by one but that very big drone had flown up and was demolishing my ninjas. I just could not manage it and had to keep running back through the sewer tunnels and the drone didn't follow when all my pets were dead. At that point I checked and I realised it was +3 but since I was halfway I decided to push through. I resummoned and when I came back through the tunnels and I could not find where that drone had gone. I had not died but my pets had died at least 7 times already.

 

My secondary was dark. I had mostly generic and single origins but I completed and was leading Wretch out and he spotted the drone up top. It had flown all the way up to one of the platforms but with Wretch's help I killed it.

 

I am sure what I did is nothing to crow about but I felt pretty happy that I actually completed something that looked quite hard. It gave me a nice feeling to have done that at level 20.

Embrace the feeling when you prevail after a struggle! 
When you're still slotting up, and not kitted out, the game can be challenging, particularly at +3 & +4. 
 

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Embrace the feeling when you prevail after a struggle! 
When you're still slotting up, and not kitted out, the game can be challenging, particularly at +3 & +4.

 

Versus beating up a lvl 54+3 Praetor Sinclair solo with my nrg/bio scrapper. Which I just did.

 

On topic, my only MM, a demon/thermal, is at 50 but I've not touched her since. Almost built a mercs/ff mastermind yesterday but my spine threatened to jump up through my skull to stop me so I relented.

 

I honestly don't see how yall tolerate 'em.

[Ukase]

22 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I honestly don't see how yall tolerate 'em.

It is a struggle, sure. 

 

[Omega Force]

Glad you're having a better experience now.

15 hours ago, desarix said:

 I had not died but my pets had died at least 7 times already.

Appropriate, since they did promise to die for Darkseid.

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I honestly don't see how yall tolerate 'em.

It's one of those different strokes for different folks kind of things. I personally find melee toons a bit difficult to get into. I prefer support and pet classes, and something about the MM playstyle draws me in and I find them enjoyable to play, though exemping and sidekicking on them is a bit annoying since the pets have to constantly die and be resummoned.

[Apparition]

45 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

It's one of those different strokes for different folks kind of things. I personally find melee toons a bit difficult to get into. I prefer support and pet classes, and something about the MM playstyle draws me in and I find them enjoyable to play, though exemping and sidekicking on them is a bit annoying since the pets have to constantly die and be resummoned.

 

 

Same.  I like playing melee solo, but only solo.  I can't stand playing melee on teams.  Partly because at least on PUG teams I find that usually half or more of the team is melee and, relatedly, I also find that there's usually a substantial lack of debuffs on PUG teams.  Let me tell you, doing TFs/SFs/trials on a melee heavy team is a real slog and can easily take two or three times as long as a team with only one or two melee characters on it.  On teams, I prefer playing Blasters, Corruptors, and Masterminds.  I feel like I'm contributing much more to the team overall than playing a melee character.  YMMV.

[Tacheyon]

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I honestly don't see how yall tolerate 'em.

 

I love my MM's and Controllers.  I am not looking at a single fight.  I am looking at the battlefield.  Using my Pets and debuffs in the most effective way possible.

 

Like someone once said "Thank God I'm only watching the game controlling it.". 

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 hours ago, Tacheyon said:

I love my MM's and Controllers.  I am not looking at a single fight.  I am looking at the battlefield.  Using my Pets and debuffs in the most effective way possible.

 

Like someone once said "Thank God I'm only watching the game controlling it.". 

 

I can grok that. I have a dark/pain troller (think I erroneously called her /time in another thread) that's glorious to watch but she, too, is slow as snail shit soloing. Keeping pain bringer and spirit ward up on the dog helps some.

 

Late edit. I have both dark/time and dark/pain controllers. They're both slow but pretty.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Riverdusk]

Yep, as I said before, I treat MM's as a support class that is generally better at soloing than the other support AT's (although there are a few controllers/corruptors/defender power combos that can also do very well I admit).  They also probably play the most differently than any other AT so are a good change of pace.

 

Not all of my characters have to blow through 54x8 for me to have fun with them solo.  I adjust things to where they are comfortable and still enjoy them.

 

And there is probably nothing more fun than an all mastermind team. 😁  Been seeing more of those being run recently (at least on Excelsior).

Edited May 7, 2022 by Riverdusk

[Arbegla]

On 5/2/2022 at 2:43 PM, Ukase said:

I will never use keybinds for this. It would make me have to rewrite binds for other powers and actions - and then I'd have to remember which binds did what. Binds, unless they are the same for every character you have, would render me incapable of doing anything. 

Again - when you switch from an MM to another alt - and play that for a stretch, and then re-visit your MM - how would you remember which key did what? Study a keybinds text file? Does that sound like something someone should have to do before playing a character? That just sounds pretty crazy to me. I ain't gonna do it. Props to those of you who can actually remember which key does what without having to review a text file. 

I'll use macros, thanks. I can at least right click on those if the label doesn't remind me. 

 

While I can understand not wanting to use binds for the MM, one thing I do like, is setting my 'thumb' button on my mouse to the '3 attack, 3 defense' command that was talked about here.

I tend to use that button a lot on any AT but for different reasons, usually its the swap targets quickly, or teleport, but as it gets use out of any AT I play, having a pre-determined bind for MMs doesn't seem too bad.

 

Macros are also really nice, because you can do some neat things with them, including having your pets do emotes, or say things during combat. It does add another layer of customization to the AT and gives it a much different feel then anyone else.

[Ukase]

12 hours ago, Arbegla said:

Macros are also really nice, because you can do some neat things with them, including having your pets do emotes, or say things during combat. It does add another layer of customization to the AT and gives it a much different feel then anyone else.

My MM in question has reached 50, recently t-4'd barrier. T-3 in everything else. 
I alted out and played my ill/rad controller, and surprised to see I had named my Phantasm "Stupid". My phantasm keeps up with me, usually. Seems to be game to attack whether I tell it to or not. But...in one limited perspective, the phantom army and phantasm are really better pets. Sturdier, and once spawned, I can pretty much forget them...until 58 seconds and I need to spawn the PA again. It's like comparing apples to oranges, really.

I use binds with all my characters. I'm just not going to use a ton of them with the MM. There really hasn't been a need so far. For me, it was more about seeing what the MM player is going through, so when I team with them, I have a better idea of what I can expect, and well, to see if I was missing out on anything fun. 

I am sad I didn't think to get Burnout for Gang War x 2. Might respec into that. Doubt it, Gang War just isn't that useful from what I can tell. (Beyond once every couple of minutes.)

Still, props to you MM players. It's not as simple as it sounds, letting all the pets do the work. I can certainly see the lure of an all MM team, though. Never could before.