Grumpy thread of the day. Tanks/Brutes who don't actually control aggro on kill mosts.

[KaizenSoze]

This was happened on two ITF and three Market Crashes in a row over the last two weeks.

 

The tank/brute is obviously fully built and handle the aggro, so that's not an issue.

 

The player will jump two or three groups head, they might taunt the first group, but then they hit the aggro cap and mobs scatter.

 

Or the instead of pausing for two seconds to wait for multiple freak rezes. They jump two groups ahead again.

 

So, the rest of the team is stuck with fully rezzed freak tanks and usually the lower levels are trying to clean them up very slowly.

 

At point in the first MC mission we had five freak tanks running around and the tank was halfway across the map aggroing three more groups.

 

They are pretty much ignoring the group and soloing the TF. If they would group up the mobs nicely, things would go faster, because AOE would be more effective.

 

It's very selfish play and makes thing slower for the whole team.

Edited May 27, 2022 by KaizenSoze

[The_Warpact]

Did you say something to them? Like "hey wtf are doing n00b?"

[KaizenSoze]

I was a bit nicer, like we have a bunch of strays back here. Let's slow down a bit.

 

No response. We needed them for the final fight. Didn't want to ruin the whole TF.

[Cutter]

Honestly, if they didn't change what they were doing, after being asked, and only on the first mission, it kinda sounds like the TF was going to be a wreck anyway?

[battlewraith]

So they didn't wait for the rezzes. Why did the rest of the team?

The primadonna wants to burn through mobs quickly. So maybe the team should've just stuck with them rather than worrying about the strays?

And then don't team with this person again?

[arcane]

If you just follow the tank/brute this is a non-issue. Once they’re over the aggro cap more will still herd to them because their teammates are with them and can pull some strays themselves. If you’re still standing still attacking things at their original spawn point after your tank has tried to pull to a herd point, you’re the one causing the chaos. My gang does KM +4 ITF’s reliably in 25-30 minutes or sometimes less, and following the tank is like the most fundamental part of that.

 

So this isn’t a playstyle problem because the tank/brute’s playstyle absolutely works if the team is just paying attention. It sounds like a team communication / PUG problem. I think, perhaps, having serious expectations from either side for how others should play is probably best reserved for non-PUG life.

Edited May 27, 2022 by arcane

[Ukase]

Anecdotally, I understand the annoyance. 

There are a lot of ways to handle this type of thing, and none of them are perfect. People are gonna do what they want to do. For the most part, a lot of folks in CoH are "Monkey see - Monkey do". They're playing the tank the way they've seen one played. 

The best solution might be to make a tank and play it the way you think it should be played. You might even go further and whip up some keybinds that you can use to explain where you're going and why you're going there. 


 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Ukase

[Akisan]

Yeah, following the tank/brute closer might help, but that's not the entire problem here -

 

Yes, it is the tank/brute's job to set the pace of the mission, but it is also their responsibility to make sure the team's not overrun.  If you're tanking, and the team's not following fast enough, you should slow down to a pace the team can handle.  @KaizenSoze is right - it's very selfish behavior for any player to just run ahead and leave the rest of the team behind like that, especially when they're the lead (or only) tank. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

This is pretty much the reason I (almost) never play a tank in team play.  It's a total drag to be asked/told to play a certain way because someone else on my team has a bee in their bonnet about how I'm engaging in a recreational activity wrong.  So I don't play a tank unless I'm in a particularly good mood, I'm willing to be ordered around by random strangers, and I happen to be in the mood to "actively tank".

 

Of course, what I really find fun is stepping up with a corruptor or stalker and taking on "active tank" duties. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

It sounds like a team communication / PUG problem.

Yeah. It's almost like if they'd have been speaking on Discord they could have asked what was happening and avoided this whole problem.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Yeah. It's almost like if they'd have been speaking on Discord they could have asked what was happening and avoided this whole problem.

Last time I was actually on discord and not keeping up with my end on a non-tank, I was simply told “put the god damn bowl down and pop a green” 😭

[SeraphimKensai]

I guess I wasn't on your team as I play literally every AT like a 1 man wrecking crew, but I would of been ahead of the tanker, and they'd be back wondering where all the mobs are so they'd only be getting stray mobs that rezzes, and you'd all be safe.

[KaizenSoze]

47 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Anecdotally, I understand the annoyance. 

There are a lot of ways to handle this type of thing, and none of them are perfect. People are gonna do what they want to do. For the most part, a lot of folks in CoH are "Monkey see - Monkey do". They're playing the tank the way they've seen one played. 

The best solution might be to make a tank and play it the way you think it should be played. You might even go further and whip up some keybinds that you can use to explain where you're going and why you're going there. 


 

I do have a tank and I do play in a way that protects and groups mobs.

 

But I don't want to play my tank all the time. I have alt-ist like everyone else.

 

Also, sticking with the tank  doesn't work when the path is narrow.

 

Not everyone has stealth and because the tank is aggroed capped. Mobs are running around.

[PeregrineFalcon]

13 minutes ago, Krimson said:

A shame no one was ever able to figure out Tanking on Live without the use of third party software. 

I don't know about live, but the OP here on Homecoming clearly couldn't operate the chat window well enough to just ask the Tank/Brute to slow down and do a better job at holding aggro.

 

 

18 minutes ago, arcane said:

Last time I was actually on discord and not keeping up with my end on a non-tank, I was simply told “put the god damn bowl down and pop a green” 😭

"Put the god damn bowl down and pop a green, Arcane!!!"

 

I swear I'm gonna add that to my signature.  😁

[tidge]

I haven't been playing much, and I don't think I've teamed since maybe March, so it wasn't me, but....

 

Tanking with Freakshow means different things to different players. Only the Super Stunners are a 'guaranteed' rez, so standing around for the Freak Tanks is certainly killing the mojo for Brutes.

 

A while back I was on a "kill all" Penny Yin TF, and my tank was scolded for opening the side doors on the way to the reactor. Of course, my non-tanks get scolded for the same thing...

 

Now this might be a bigger deal for builds that don't have something like a "full kit", but it is extremely rare (most TFs) that any of my characters are concentrating on the mobs around the tank... usually other players are nuking them with AoE, so I'm trying to drag other spawns to the tank.

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Also, sticking with the tank  doesn't work when the path is narrow.

 

Not everyone has stealth and because the tank is aggroed capped. Mobs are running around.

I mean, yeah, sticking with the tank only works if the non-tanks in question have a basic understanding of how to survive a smidge of aggro in this game. 

[Ukase]

2 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Well, if the game client itself isn't doing the job, then I can't see what third party software is going to do. Meanwhile, Oklahoman can run Master Of all day using in game chat, and succeed over and over.

This isn't always true. It's mostly true, but there are a couple of threads with clear frustration at the inability of some folks to read, particularly when it comes to Triple Threat in the Magisterium trial. 

And in Kaizen's defense, he clearly stated he did ask the tank to slow down, but didn't push the issue because he didn't want to potentially ruin the tf for other folks. Even when you try to be polite to some folks, they don't always see it like that. They want to play "their way", even if it means the rest of the team doesn't have it as easy. In most cases, it's easy enough to overcome. But damn, re-toggling is annoying, even if it's just a few toggles. A tank should be paying attention to the health of teammates. It is literally the only reason they are on the team - to help keep folks from unnecessarily being defeated. 

Unfortunately, there really is little that can be done, other make a note to not team with that particular tank in the future. 

[KaizenSoze]

11 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I guess I wasn't on your team as I play literally every AT like a 1 man wrecking crew, but I would of been ahead of the tanker, and they'd be back wondering where all the mobs are so they'd only be getting stray mobs that rezzes, and you'd all be safe.

Yep, been on teams like that and those are just fine with me. If you're clearing all the mobs, except a few strays all good.

 

This is the opposite of the that, not clearing, but scattering and causing issues for the rest of the team.

 

And I would not have not said anything if it happen once and awhile.

 

This exact thing happened again and again.

[PeregrineFalcon]

9 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Well, if the game client itself isn't doing the job, then I can't see what third party software is going to do. Meanwhile, Oklahoman can run Master Of all day using in game chat, and succeed over and over.

Hmmmmm...

 

It almost sounds like you're saying the fault lies with the OP and not with the anonymous Brute/Tank that he's complaining about. That can't be right.  😄

[PeregrineFalcon]

10 minutes ago, arcane said:

I mean, yeah, sticking with the tank only works if the non-tanks in question have a basic understanding of how to survive a smidge of aggro in this game. 

But I thought EVERYONE was playing a defense soft-capped Blaster. Wasn't that the reason for all of the "Game too easy, bruh" threads that used to pop up twice a week?

[oedipus_tex]

I think a lot of people who are used to soloing as melees aren't familiar with the 16 target cap and the fact that it's contributing to their survival. Or especially the fact that once you've reached that cap, by pulling more groups, you're dumping aggro onto players who aren't built to withstand it. Some teams can withstand that, others can't. If it's causing deaths and scatters rather than organizing things it's probably not helpful behavior in either case.

[Doomguide2005]

There's leaving a few strays and there's leaving lots of strays and rezzers etc. behind you.  The first if I  can't handle it well it would be great to have more help but yeah that's my issue mostly.  The second is being a less than great teammate.  Not every character has their build polished and incarnated to handle the mess that can be left behind especially in mission 2 of the ITF if a ambush shows up while dealing with the chaos of over aggroing or not maintaining aggro on stuff can create in those narrow tunnel sections.  I personally expect teammates to help each other regardless if it's a Tanker, Brute or whatever they're playing.

[Luminara]

Life's too short, and unpleasantness in abundance, to waste time "sticking it out" when you're not happy.  Quit the team, find another.  There's always another.

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

But I thought EVERYONE was playing a defense soft-capped Blaster. Wasn't that the reason for all of the "Game too easy, bruh" threads that used to pop up twice a week?

I’ve told you over and over I run my blasters at 20-25% defense 🙂 doesn’t mean they should be dying.

[The_Warpact]

I play my tanks like an unstoppable scrapper just sayin...