Grumpy thread of the day. Tanks/Brutes who don't actually control aggro on kill mosts.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

You said that in response and reference to what i said - that was not my meaning in my post.  May not have been your intent but it looks like you attributed the playstyle of leaving stuff behind to my post.  

 

8 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

11 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Its like drag racing with a bulldozer.

 

You may not be the quickest but everyone will know where you have been.

 

 

If you are drag-racing with a bulldozer, what do you think is going to happen?

 

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

But - at the end of the day... This is a... Game.

 

But - at the end of the day ... you are still on a team with other real life people and not gaming by yourself in a single player game.

 

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I am not going to hang around and let something in a game stress me out - to the point of complaining about it on forums

 

You are right now and you have been in other posts.

 

2 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Again that is a personal choice and based on personal responsibility to guide ones on actions.

 

Very much so.

If you are on a team, what is going on is not your choice alone. Other players are making their own choices as well.

I'm sorry that that appears to be so hard to understand.

When you are 1 out of 8. 7 other people are deciding what they want to do regardless of what you want to do or what you expect them to do. But at the same time, each member of the team is most likely suspecting that they are playing with others that are trying to cooperate with one another.

 

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Since you don't know me, have not played with me, and I have detailed no specific situation by which you could draw the conclusion you assert, I think everyone can see the value of your reply here.

 

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Such a shame that 99 times out of 100 that seems to mean some silliness regarding what some non-Tank playing individual wants the Tanker to do while ignoring all the things the team is doing that annoys the Tanker to no end.

 

I think it is pretty obvious from your quote that people see the value of my post even if you don't understand.

 

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

But feel free to craft a better one and I am sure most people will ignore the one you offered.

 

Or I can just do the sensible thing at this point and put you on ignore.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

If you are drag-racing with a bulldozer, what do you think is going to happen?

 

Trampeling bad guys into the ground and then casting their withered remains to the side maybe?

 

3 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

But - at the end of the day ... you are still on a team with other real life people and not gaming by yourself in a single player game.

 

Yeah - and if their style does not mesh with mine i am going to bow out gracefully - not going to stick around and play enabler for crap that drives me crazy.  I have that right and so does everyone else.

 

6 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

If you are on a team, what is going on is not your choice alone. Other players are making their own choices as well.

 

Sure it is - because if it doesnt line up - we have the right to bow out gracefully and form a better team.

 

6 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

I'm sorry that that appears to be so hard to understand.

 

It isnt - i just disagree with your assessment - but you sticking wholeheartedly with something that drives you crazy is kinda in your dog park there.

[ForeverLaxx]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Or I can just do the sensible thing at this point and put you on ignore.

Your tendency to put people on ignore simply for disagreeing with you because you choose to interpret that disagreement as an attack (generally when in response to your own dismissive and condescending replies to them) never fails to both humor and sadden me. You want to get confrontational and accusatory of others, and when they respond to you in kind you want to take the "high road" and /ignore them for bothering you. Hypocrisy isn't a good look.

 

Unfortunately, your signature seems to imply that you're proud of this method of discourse. I personally don't put anyone on ignore unless it's constant harassment and threats, and that's pretty rare. Disagreements are good to have because that leaves room for people to learn or appreciate a different perspective. You don't learn anything when you only surround yourself with people that agree with you.

Edited June 17, 2022 by ForeverLaxx
grammar

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Disagreements are good to have because that leaves room for people to learn or appreciate a different perspective.

 

As with most things, it depends. I'd certainly never ignore someone on these forums simply because they don't view something the way I do, tank overbuffing, taunt auras, etc, but there are some beliefs/opinions that are atrocious enough simply at face value that the person holding them should be jettisoned into the nearest star and ignoring those folks so that I don't become the monster is perfectly acceptable.

[ForeverLaxx]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

atrocious enough simply at face value that the person holding them should be jettisoned into the nearest star

That kinda goes beyond the realm of a simple disagreement.

[Lyrium]

8 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

there are some beliefs/opinions that are atrocious enough simply at face value that the person holding them should be jettisoned into the nearest star and ignoring those folks so that I don't become the monster is perfectly acceptable.

Like people who like pizza with pineapple

[UltraAlt]

19 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Trampeling bad guys into the ground and then casting their withered remains to the side maybe?

 

I believe if you are bulldozing, yes.

Drag-racing with a bulldozer is unlikely to be efficient and likely to be rushing through something too quickly for the sake of speed.

At least, that is my impression of that statement.

 

19 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Yeah - and if their style does not mesh with mine i am going to bow out gracefully - not going to stick around and play enabler for crap that drives me crazy.  I have that right and so does everyone else.

 

Yes, you do.

We are here to have fun.

I don't want anyone driving you crazy. I don't want anyone driving anyone crazy.

I want to play a game with people that are having fun so that we can have fun together.

 

19 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Sure it is - because if it doesnt line up - we have the right to bow out gracefully and form a better team.

 

Yes. You and other players have that right.

If you are running a team and have taken time to recruit, I would like to think that you will stand up for the effort that you have put into creating your team.

No need to be a bully about it. But other people need to understand that you are the leader and understand what that means.

 

It's not hard to look around and seeing who is being disruptive.

In my experience, most players are going to try to work with the team.

Level 50s are more likely to be disruptive than any other level character.

Tanks are very likely to think that everyone should follow them and that they are the leader regardless of who has the star.

 

19 hours ago, Infinitum said:

It isnt - i just disagree with your assessment - but you sticking wholeheartedly with something that drives you crazy is kinda in your dog park there.

 

What exactly is it that you think "drives me crazy"?

 

20 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Very much so.

If you are on a team, what is going on is not your choice alone. Other players are making their own choices as well.

I'm sorry that that appears to be so hard to understand.

When you are 1 out of 8. 7 other people are deciding what they want to do regardless of what you want to do or what you expect them to do. But at the same time, each member of the team is most likely suspecting that they are playing with others that are trying to cooperate with one another.

 

I guess that is my "dog park"?

I guess that "your dog park" is also meant as some kind of insult? I don't think you would mean it that way.

 

I'm not seeing how that statement "drives me crazy".

Perhaps, I am not the crazy one. That seems more like your dog park.

 

It's probably best to stop discussing this.

We have both made our points clear. Don't you think?

[golstat2003]

On 5/27/2022 at 12:55 PM, Ukase said:

This isn't always true. It's mostly true, but there are a couple of threads with clear frustration at the inability of some folks to read, particularly when it comes to Triple Threat in the Magisterium trial. 

And in Kaizen's defense, he clearly stated he did ask the tank to slow down, but didn't push the issue because he didn't want to potentially ruin the tf for other folks. Even when you try to be polite to some folks, they don't always see it like that. They want to play "their way", even if it means the rest of the team doesn't have it as easy. In most cases, it's easy enough to overcome. But damn, re-toggling is annoying, even if it's just a few toggles. A tank should be paying attention to the health of teammates. It is literally the only reason they are on the team - to help keep folks from unnecessarily being defeated. 

Unfortunately, there really is little that can be done, other make a note to not team with that particular tank in the future. 

 

At that point I would have explained the issue, dropped and re-formed. It's only the first mission. You got time to restart the TF with another team.

[golstat2003]

Yeah I'm not required to stay on a team that's driving me crazy. The second it stops being fun I leave.

 

It's a game, not a job.

 

I wouldn't be posting on the forums, I just leave and find another team.

[Erratic1]

3 hours ago, Erhnam said:

Like people who like pizza with pineapple

 

Good targets for knockback--both the people and the abomination with pineapple on it.

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I don't want anyone driving you crazy.

 

Don't worry bout that cause it wont happen to me.  lol

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I guess that is my "dog park"?

 

Yes

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I guess that "your dog park" is also meant as some kind of insult?

 

No

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Perhaps, I am not the crazy one. That seems more like your dog park.

 

Also no - at least not with this conversation.

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

It's probably best to stop discussing this.

 

I forgot about this thread yesterday.

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

We have both made our points clear. Don't you think?

 

I know where I stand.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Infinitum

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, Erhnam said:

Like people who like pizza with pineapple

[Andreah]

22 hours ago, Krimson said:

My tanks have warnings in their bios that state, "I AGGRO EVERYTHING I SEE"

This is a good idea; I may use it in my tanks, even if my wording will be a bit different.

 

I herd, and I herd aggressively. I don't want controllers or anyone following me when I zip off to herd -- they'll either mess it up or die trying. I'll bring the herds back to where folks are fighting, usually where the most AoE vfx are clustered. 

 

I also don't deliberately try to wipe the team. I'll slow down or even only anchor for single groups if the team is having trouble. I watch the team health bars constantly and adjust accordingly. If someone's in trouble it's my duty to get the aggro off them if I can, and that takes absolute priority over herding. Fortunately, I build my tanks for battlespace mobility. I also carry supplies to rez and heal people -- if I get someone killed, that's on me and I need to make it right.

 

My job, as I see it, is to pace things as fast as we can reliably clear groups without defeats.  We should feel challenged, if that's even possible, but not overwhelmed. 

 

And it's also my responsibility to respect my fellow players' desires and to be a good follower if I'm not leading.

 

It's not about me, it's about us.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Andreah

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

appropriate. Except I might use an orbital death laser. 😛 

[Luminara]

20 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

 

appropriate. Except I might use an orbital death laser. 😛 

[Ukase]

6 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

Yeah I'm not required to stay on a team that's driving me crazy. The second it stops being fun I leave.

 

It's a game, not a job.

 

I wouldn't be posting on the forums, I just leave and find another team.

Quitting a task force is a major faux pas. It's worse than being a lousy teammate. There is literally nothing you can do in game that's worse, aside from joining an SG and raiding all the loot and then quitting. 

For a casual team up, no big deal. But for a task force, even though with the invention system making anyone pretty much replaceable, quitting a task force is bad form. 

[golstat2003]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

Quitting a task force is a major faux pas. It's worse than being a lousy teammate. There is literally nothing you can do in game that's worse, aside from joining an SG and raiding all the loot and then quitting. 

For a casual team up, no big deal. But for a task force, even though with the invention system making anyone pretty much replaceable, quitting a task force is bad form. 

If the task force is starting out terribly not it absolutely is not.

 

if the first mission is going absolutely terribly as the OP alluded to, you damn right you should quit and reform.

 

again it’s a game, not a f$&king job. Wasting everyone’s time on something that may end in a complete s)$t show is idiotic.

[Andreah]

I think the difference would have to be between quitting out of the blue sky, vs quitting after telling people "This is awful, we need to quit and reform." 

 

In regards to the OP's original problem, I'd suggest to the rest of the team, possibly starting with a private tell to the team leader, that we should quit, and reform without the problem brute/tanker. I personally would not just drop out without a word or in a one-player ragequit. If I think something is going badly wrong, I'm likely not the only one.

[golstat2003]

Just now, Andreah said:

I think the difference would have to be between quitting out of the blue sky, vs quitting after telling people "This is awful, we need to quit and reform." 

 

In regards to the OP's original problem, I'd suggest to the rest of the team, possibly starting with a private tell to the team leader, that we should quit, and reform without the problem brute/tanker. I personally would not just drop out without a word or in a one-player ragequit. If I think something is going badly wrong, I'm likely not the only one.

Well yes, I thought that was obvious. Clearly there was an issue and the OP should have spoken up. If it can’t be resolved as numerous people said for pages and pages previously, then yes quit and reform. If it’s annoying enough that they came here to complain, they should have spoken up. No one is holding you hostage to a team. MMO does not mean you are forced to just be quiet and take it. Nor are you forced to stay in a teaming situation that makes you unhappy.

 

It’s a game, not work.

 

My point is life is too short to put up with nonsense. The OP said he did. not want to rock the boat at the start of a TF. My argument is that THAT is the exact time you should speak up. If it ends up the TF collapses, good. Better it to happen in the first mission of a tf then mission 4 of 5.

 

Sorry if that was not clear earlier.

[Ghost]

If it’s the leader that’s the problem, I dang sure will drop from a TF - but it has to be pretty bad.

If it’s the tank/brute, and not the leader - I’ll stick around for as long as it takes.

[Zappalina]

On 5/27/2022 at 10:51 AM, KaizenSoze said:

This was happened on two ITF and three Market Crashes in a row over the last two weeks.

 

The tank/brute is obviously fully built and handle the aggro, so that's not an issue.

 

The player will jump two or three groups head, they might taunt the first group, but then they hit the aggro cap and mobs scatter.

 

Or the instead of pausing for two seconds to wait for multiple freak rezes. They jump two groups ahead again.

 

So, the rest of the team is stuck with fully rezzed freak tanks and usually the lower levels are trying to clean them up very slowly.

 

At point in the first MC mission we had five freak tanks running around and the tank was halfway across the map aggroing three more groups.

 

They are pretty much ignoring the group and soloing the TF. If they would group up the mobs nicely, things would go faster, because AOE would be more effective.

 

It's very selfish play and makes thing slower for the whole team.

People play in a lot of different ways.  There are players that are maxed out with ios that high defense and damage that go in and kill groups before a tank would even get to them.  I've done Task Forces/Strike Forces where there is no tank for the AV's or EBs to hold aggro.  I've done all corrupter ITFs where there has been no tanks.  Tanks aren't necessary to beat missions and task forces.  I've been on my tank and had scrappers draw aggro away from my tanks unless they have + accuracy slotted.

There are tanks that just feel moot at this point and are just doing their thing, I noticed when I started playing usually groups of two players running way ahead and taking on mobs while the rest of the team kind of fended for themselves.  It takes a little bit to get used to but as long as peeps aren't causing team wipes or my character to continually be defeated and using wakes I usually ignore them and team up with the ones that are close by.  I also have dealt with players who kill most on the maps leaving everyone else to clean up things as they come along, I've also seen new player tanks that I think may be doing mostly AE that go in and run by three mobs and expect all three of those mobs to follow them (like in AE when a tank/brute solos mobs and people wait by the door) and then they are just unaware that the cap for aggro is 16/17 and that their team mates are going to be getting aggro as soon as they attack the group they come across without a tank to grab aggro.   I don't think anyone is doing it to be offensive, I think that they just have their own play style.  You could try leading a team and just set guidelines for how you want the team to be cohesive from the beginning and you'll ask people to leave if they don't want to do that.  Then they can choose whether or not to continue with your team and playstyle.

 

[Gulbasaur]

1 hour ago, Zappalina said:

I've done all corrupter ITFs where there has been no tanks.  Tanks aren't necessary to beat missions and task forces. 

One of the best ITF runs I ever did was with all support specs, a fortunata and a sentinel. I held aggro on my fortunata (just about) on the AVs and we just liquefied everything else. 

[MoonSheep]

On 5/28/2022 at 6:07 PM, zenijos10 said:

I keep reading that the tanks role is to keep the team safe.  That’s something tanks can certainly do, but a lot of people pick tanks or brutes so they can personally survive.  The role a given player takes on is up to that specific player not the other people playing. There is nothing inherent in a tank that makes them need to protect the team.  If anyone assumes that a tank or brute intends to play with a team first attitude then that anyone will certainly have to swallow a lot of disappointment. 

 

i dislike this viewpoint because for me the team aspect and unique abilities of each AT in CoH is what makes it so enjoyable

 

however

 

you are entirely correct. it can be seen on every build thread on the archetype sub forums. the number one priority for players on HC is “me me me” - e.g purely support ATs with tough and weave, completely neglecting the various support powers for the sake of softcapping def. ego has taken centre stage over co-op play and team work

 

archetypes don’t exist on HC