LFG is not for conversations

[Player2]

3 hours ago, Rahabina said:

They do need a LFF looking for farm channel

No.

[Zect]

A LFF channel sounds like a fantastic idea!

 

"Segregation" of players seems like a non-issue to me. There are channels for Architect Entertainment (the use of this just needs to be enforced) as well as Arena PvP. There are channels for players in specific zones (broadcast). The playerbase is already segregated, because it is objectively a good thing: it makes it easier for different groups of players to communicate without drowning each other out. When I'm trying to get a sitting spot going before I tab out for work, I really don't want GenericMcAlt's stream of

 

"Forming DFB 1/8"

"Forming DFB 2/8"

"Forming DFB 3/8"

 

getting in my way.

 

Opposition to a farm channel seems like a small, vocal minority of players taking undue offense at the idea, as if they were being "banished" to a nether realm. You are welcome to be offended, but such players should realize that such a channel is not only a convenience for everyone, farmers and non-farmers alike, but also signals official developer recognition of farming as a playstyle, which never happened on Live btw. Whining against it is as silly as the crybaby a while back who whined that farming is "persistently and constantly oppressed" or something... despite all the buffs AE and farming have received, and despite it still being the most profitable activity in the game bar a marketeer.

 

 

 

 

[Player2]

A looking for farm channel is something that could be created by players, and anyone that wants to opt in can...  so farmers (and non-farmers) who don't want to see it won't need to remove it from their existing channels if it were an official addition, and farmers who don't mind bringing in random invites can advertise there or look for players wanting to get in on a farm.

 

ANYONE can create ANY channel they want.  The only issue is getting enough other players on board to make it worthwhile.

That sounds like a farmers and LF farmers issue, though, not an all of us problem.

[Crossie]

I read good so problem not.

[Decision]

late to this convo  but ill add my 2 cents - 

 

although i agree with you, i think encouraging convos globally (LFG being the most active channel) is good for the server and the game as a whole. I am conflicted because it is def meant for LFG, but i think activity in any sense is good moving forward. 

[honoroit]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:11 PM, Decision said:

i think encouraging convos globally (LFG being the most active channel) is good for the server and the game as a whole

yes!

people used to hang out in barrens or org to hear trade or global chat.

 

what folk say, isnt always gonna fall to ordered focused comms, kupo.  its flavor. kupo.

 

so the more, the merrier we'll be.

[Oklahoman]

Completely disagree. General is for conversations. Help can be for conversations. Team, League, local, broadcast... all can be for conversations. There is plenty of space for conversations within this game, and I encourage that. If you join in one of my MSRs we are slinging Dad Jokes left and right the whole time - not in LFG, but in league, local, and broadcast.

 

LFG is for people trying to form teams and groups. It's a shared billboard for us to advertise.

 

Sure, stray comments are going to make their way on to LFG. Accidentally sending to the wrong channel, a witty (?) response to a typo, asking for clarification, etc. No big deal. But when others join in and start responding to the responses, it can quickly become a conversation, and it can then inhibit people LOOKING FOR GROUP.

 

I would argue that the LFG channel may be the most important channel in the game. Some people love to solo, and more power to them, but I think most people play MMOs to join in adventures with others. Anything we do to make that more difficult is a detriment to the game and the community.

[Snarky]

I did not read this whole thread.  But my take is you want more random comments and not whole conversations in LFG?

[Oklahoman]

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

I did not read this whole thread.  But my take is you want more random comments and not whole conversations in LFG?

 

Especially from you.

[Uriahs Heep]

I Like Peas !!!

[Arc-Mage]

On 5/12/2023 at 3:58 PM, Uriahs Heep said:

I Like Peas !!!

This is a conversation I can get into. 

[Romeyn]

2 hours ago, Arc-Mage said:

This is a conversation I can get into. 

 

Imagine Whirled Peas...

[Herotu]

On 5/12/2023 at 9:58 PM, Uriahs Heep said:

I Like Peas !!!

Fightening. For real.

[Mjolnerd]

Crazy idea: Instead of a whole separate "Looking for Farm" channel, what if they just added a "Looking for Farm" option to the drop-down menu in the Teams tab?

 

"The what?" I hear you ask.

 

This thing. The one most players either aren't aware of, or have only a dim, half-remembered recollection of from sometime in the distant past, as if from another life, or perhaps a dream. The thing that would eliminate like 90% of the issues brought up in this thread if people would take the ten seconds or so to (re-)learn how it works.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

[B l u e]

I've been back for a week and have been doing this and haven't gotten a single tell, was I the only one? Lol 

[Oklahoman]

4 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

Crazy idea: Instead of a whole separate "Looking for Farm" channel, what if they just added a "Looking for Farm" option to the drop-down menu in the Teams tab?

 

Honestly, I don't know anyone who uses that tool as designed, and have a hard time seeing people suddenly starting to use it. It's an antiquated tool that doesn't really reflect how we form and join teams now. I'm sure some do use it, but by and large I think it was always a solution looking for a problem.

 

I have seen a suggestion to create a "Looking for Farm" channel, which can easily be done already by whoever would care to create, manage, and promote it. Not me.

 

The trick would be to get people to USE it, to make it a better choice than using LFG. The LFG channel still gets used as a quasi-General and Help channel as-is, because people get the results they were looking for. I suspect that even if we did create a LFF channel, people will still post to LFG about farms because that works for them better than any alternative we have right now. Until there is a solution that works better for forming or joining a farm, this is what people are going to do.

 

I wonder if the only AE in the game was in Pocket D, for instance, would people find it works better to actually use broadcast or local to form or join farms? I think not, because you still could not join farms in-progress that may have an opening, but perhaps it would cut down on the traffic on LFG. Maybe we could decide that if you are in Pocket D you simply can't post to LFG at all, forcing people there to use broadcast and local. That hoses some folks who choose to form other things out of Pocket D, but that still leaves Echo Park and Ouro as very reasonable alternatives for iTrials and such.

 

And, after all of that, they are still, in fact, forming and joining groups, which is appropriate for the LFG channel. They are using the LFG more correctly than people who post to LFG asking how to get to The Abyss, or which lore pet is best, or replying to someone who said something funny, or sharing that Tina Turner died, etc. Honestly, the farmers don't bother me near as much as the others I mentioned. At least farm requests are trying to form groups, which is what we need to sustain this game. The yappers make it harder for that to happen.

[Bionic_Flea]

29 minutes ago, Oklahoman said:

I have seen a suggestion to create a "Looking for Farm" channel,

 There are already about 2 dozen farming global channels.  The most popular one is "Got Farms?" with 475 total members and the next is "Farming Excelsior" with 52.  You can find these and other channels in game by right clicking in the chat box, choosing "channel search," and then use the pop up UI to search for "farm" or whatever.

 

Now, some channels many be public, and can be joined by highlighting a channel name and then clicking the "Join Channel" button, and some may be private and require invitation by one of the channel moderators.

[Mjolnerd]

1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

Honestly, I don't know anyone who uses that tool as designed, and have a hard time seeing people suddenly starting to use it. It's an antiquated tool that doesn't really reflect how we form and join teams now. I'm sure some do use it, but by and large I think it was always a solution looking for a problem.

 

Not to deviate too far from the original purpose of the thread (irony? Irony!), but I think "how we form and join teams now" is the problem it solves. Because even when nobody is having non-team-forming conversations in it, the LFG channel... isn't. If anything, it's the LFM channel.

 

You don't post in that channel if you're an individual looking for a group. Not with any reasonable expectation of success, anyway. There was a time, back on live, when that strategy worked, and was even the norm -- even before the dedicated LFG channel existed when we'd do it in zone Broadcast:

 

Doctor Ducklips: Level 25 defender LFG

<<Captain Snazzypants has invited you to join a team>>

 

Or

 

xxUnoriginal Namexx: Level 20 blaster LFT

Tell from Leader-420: We're doing radio missions in Talos, want in?

 

Sometimes it wouldn't work on the first try like that, but you knew that leaders looking to fill gaps in their team would, eventually, look at it. It doesn't work like that anymore. It never has on HC. What happens now is:

 

McTankerSmith: Level 35 tank LFT or TF
Then a few minutes later

McTankerSmith: Level 35 tank LFT
Then a few minutes later

McTankerSmith: Level 35 tank LF anything
Then literally, and I mean literally-literally not figuratively-literally, two seconds later

RandomLetters69LOL: Level 54 PI radios any level welcome, 3 spots PST  -- completely ignoring the person who asked for a team just seconds ago so don't pretend you didn't see it it's the line immediately above yours buddy

McTankerSmith clicks on RandomLetters69LOL's name in a panic and sends a tell that just says "me" as quickly as possible because they know that even the tiniest delay will mean not getting that coveted spot on a team

Then as they're pressing Enter

RandomLetters69LOL: full
And the person who already let the whole server know three times that they're LFG is still LFG. They let out an exasperated sigh and type Level 35 tank LFT a fourth time.

 

That's how we form and join teams now -- it's just a race to send a tell as fast as possible. Nobody with an open spot on their team actually checks the LFG channel to see who's LFG. Trying to find a team by posting to it is pointless. If you want to join a team, you'll just have to sit and monitor the chat like an air traffic controller, finger poised over your mouse button to fire off a tell instantly when a leader posts that a spot you can fill has opened up. And you can't do anything else during that time -- shopping? Run a mission solo? Tweaking your costume? Crafting or converting? Even if you're checking back every few seconds, just the time it took to move your mouse from wherever it was back over to the chat window is going to cost you that spot.

 

The team tab drop-down and search comment solve all of that. You're a player that's LFT? Cool, set your status and comment and then go busy yourself doing something else while you wait. You're a leader who's LFM? Great, check there first and see if someone of the AT and/or level your team could most benefit from is out there.

 

It's not that the method we use now is better (because it isn't), it's just what everybody has come to expect.

[Arc-Mage]

12 hours ago, B l u e said:

I've been back for a week and have been doing this and haven't gotten a single tell, was I the only one? Lol 

Well...I tell you, Welcome Back.

[UltraAlt]

On 6/1/2023 at 8:38 AM, B l u e said:

I've been back for a week and have been doing this and haven't gotten a single tell, was I the only one? Lol 

 

People are scared of the star.

If there isn't a team looking for more. the best solution is to start a team and recruit.

[UltraAlt]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:23 PM, shatterpoint said:

Since the dawn of the MMO the chat is and always shall be a quagmire. People will do what they want. You aren't really going to stop them.

 

Not so true here....

...at least on servers other than Excelsior. 

Excelsior is where you go if you want to expect bad manners. And I mean that from repeated observation. Not an attack because it is what it is. 

 

usually a couple of comments and people will quiet down or move to another channel.

 

We have a very helpful community on many servers and blocking /help with garbage (non-help related info) or snide comments isn't helpful.

The same goes for LFG. It's disruptive for those trying to recruit, even if they are recruiting for a DFB.

[Lektrah Lyte]

As it stands now, LFG has pretty good moderation as far as conversations go. For the majority of what I’ve seen, people crack the occasional joke or remark. Or answer a quick question that should have but didn’t make it to the Help channel. Nothing that disrupts the flow of chat.

 

Sometimes dialogue takes place, however, that has no place in LFG. The individuals who “disturb the peace” of the channel in this way are not ignorant of the fact that it’s disruptive. If they want to jump into the wrong channel on purpose, then they will because they can. When that happens, I have no qualms with those who encourage chat channel etiquette because it’s nice that others step in to moderate.

 

However, when it comes down to a debate over whether or not farmers and those looking for farms should be banished from the LFG channel simply because it’s not a popular activity with a particular segment of the population, that’s an entirely different issue. 

 

On 6/1/2023 at 9:41 AM, Oklahoman said:

Maybe we could decide that if you are in Pocket D you simply can't post to LFG at all, forcing people there to use broadcast and local.

 

Trying to control and dictate the LFG channel with suggestions like the one above is a strange tactic for a community that prides itself on fostering a uniquely supportive and friendly player base. 

 

 

 

 

[Oklahoman]

15 hours ago, Lektrah Lyte said:

Trying to control and dictate the LFG channel with suggestions like the one above is a strange tactic for a community that prides itself on fostering a uniquely supportive and friendly player base. 

 

If the concern is that LFG is overrun with farm requests, I was suggesting a programmatic solution. Have only 1 AE in Pocket D, then program the game such that if you are in Pocket D you cannot post to LFG. That then moves all of that chatter to a more effective environment from all. Moves, not eliminates. Otherwise, I can't really think of a way to move the farm requests from LFG and just have to accept them under the umbrella of "looking for group." That's all I'm saying. @Bionic_Flea mentioned there are numerous farm channels already, and we still see farm requests in LFG.

 

Plus, you'll recall I ended I ended that post with this:

On 6/1/2023 at 8:41 AM, Oklahoman said:

And, after all of that, they are still, in fact, forming and joining groups, which is appropriate for the LFG channel.

 

[Lektrah Lyte]

3 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

Have only 1 AE in Pocket D, then program the game such that if you are in Pocket D you cannot post to LFG.

 

If your suggestion was actually enforced, it’s not much of a stretch to imagine that anyone who wanted a farm would just stand outside in AP or some other connecting zone, right beside the truck, and use LFG until they got a team.

 

I also don’t think narrowing the list down to one AE in the entire game is going to solve anything. It’s only going to create problems, such as the increased lag players would experience upon entering that zone, whether they are there for farms or co-op activities. As for forcing players to use Broadcast or Local, that means we’d only see advertisements for groups or those interested when we are in the zone, where an AE team spends very little time if it is already underway. So once again there’s the probable result of players standing outside of Pocket D using the LFG.

 

On 6/1/2023 at 9:41 AM, Oklahoman said:

And, after all of that, they are still, in fact, forming and joining groups, which is appropriate for the LFG channel.

 

I completely agree with this statement.

[Darktweets]

On 6/3/2022 at 7:44 AM, Oklahoman said:

There, I said it. Let the hate flow.

 

Look, I've played on other servers and I know their LFG channels aren't nearly as busy as ours on Excelsior. Those servers can tolerate that extremely witty reply you absolutely have to make in response to someone else's typo in an LFG post. In fact, it likely will be welcomed as the first time two messages were posted back-to-back to LFG in, what, days?

 

On Excelsior, though, we have numerous posts to LFG per minute, pretty much around the clock as far as I can tell. We are fortunate to have a lot of people trying to form groups. Maybe you don't realize how frustrating it is, then, when a conversation breaks out in LFG and our ad scrolls off the screen immediately.

 

No, I don't "own" any aspect of this game. But asking you to move a conversation to GENERAL or HELP is not some great offense worthy of a nasty /tell.

 

Anyway, that's the burr in my saddle this morning. How are you?

The /ignore ability is probably one of the most adulting and best-widely used methods for removing spam from your inbox without having to deal with the insecurities of being unable to deal with other people having fun and roleplay. I'd recommend that if you have an issue with certain people, you simple use it.