Synapse TF: Babbage no-shows

[Techwright]

What is the cause/are the causes of Babbage not showing on occasion in Skyway when teams are doing the Synapse Task Force?

 

 

[AboveTheChemist]

There was a good deal of discussion on this subject on a recent Babbage bug report thread, including the results of a lot of testing that I performed on the Beta server to try to verify or debunk some theories I had read regarding why Babbage does not spawn.

 

I'll start off with a few observations that, while not 100% ironclad facts, I feel confident are true.

1. Babbage spawns based on where the team leader exits the Clockwork Lord mission. So if the team leader portals to another zone from inside that mission, then Babbage will spawn in that other zone. It's important for the team leader (and perhaps the whole team, just to be safe) to exit that mission back into Skyway City to make sure he spawns in Skyway City.
2. Babbage spawns about 300 feet from the Clockwork Lord mission door, at any of the common spawn points shared by enemy NPCs.

My working theory is that he often fails to spawn because there are player characters too close to his spawn point when he spawns, which suppresses his spawn. I couldn't prove that beyond the theory stage, because I was testing solo and would have needed more help. But, it makes sense because as the call goes out to the server that a Babbage spawn is imminent, players arrive and loiter around the general area of the mission door (especially if they are provided coordinates). The more people that gather, the more likely one of them might be too close to Babbage's spawn point, causing him to fail to spawn. So, it might be helpful to ask folks to muster some distance (500+ ft) from the mission door when announcing an imminent Babbage spawn in chat. The north tram station might make a good muster point, for example.

 

There also may be rare occasions when Babbage paths too close to a police drone as he travels to attack the TF members, but that's not a scenario I could reliably test. In one of my 40+ tests, he spawned fairly close to the south tram station. While he didn't get zapped by a drone in that instance, given the proximity of the spawn to the tram station it's not unreasonable to imagine that he might path too close to a drone.

 

A few theories that I was able to prove FALSE are:

1. Babbage won't spawn if the Superadine Raid (AKA the Troll Rave) is in progress (I was able to spawn him numerous times during the Troll Rave)
2. Babbage won't spawn if there is already a Babbage present in the zone from a different Synapse TF (I was able to spawn two concurrent Babbages without issue)

I'm certain that there is more testing that could be done, and there may be someone else out there with additional info that could help prove or disprove some of the above. But those are my conclusions based on the fairly extensive testing I performed. The thread I linked above has more details of my testing, should that be of interest.

Edited June 4, 2022 by AboveTheChemist
added info about drone, clarification

[Techwright]

Thank you!  That's good info, @AboveTheChemist.  I'm reading through the other thread now. 

 

One theory that had been put forth on multiple occasions by players waiting for him to show was that it's Skyway with all its bizarre underground and under-road passages and pockets, and that he's spawning in places from which he can not easily get to street level, nor quickly be found.  So the team moves on and he de-spawns.  Your diligent documentation shows that there's at least one or two other things going on.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Techwright

[Yomo Kimyata]

3 hours ago, AboveTheChemist said:

There was a good deal of discussion on this subject on a recent Babbage bug report thread, including the results of a lot of testing that I performed on the Beta server to try to verify or debunk some theories I had read regarding why Babbage does not spawn.

 

I'll start off with a few observations that, while not 100% ironclad facts, I feel confident are true.

1. Babbage spawns based on where the team leader exits the Clockwork Lord mission. So if the team leader portals to another zone from inside that mission, then Babbage will spawn in that other zone. It's important for the team leader (and perhaps the whole team, just to be safe) to exit that mission back into Skyway City to make sure he spawns in Skyway City.
2. Babbage spawns about 300 feet from the Clockwork Lord mission door, at any of the common spawn points shared by enemy NPCs.

My working theory is that he often fails to spawn because there are player characters too close to his spawn point when he spawns, which suppresses his spawn. I couldn't prove that beyond the theory stage, because I was testing solo and would have needed more help. But, it makes sense because as the call goes out to the server that a Babbage spawn is imminent, players arrive and loiter around the general area of the mission door (especially if they are provided coordinates). The more people that gather, the more likely one of them might be too close to Babbage's spawn point, causing him to fail to spawn. So, it might be helpful to ask folks to muster some distance (500+ ft) from the mission door when announcing an imminent Babbage spawn in chat. The north tram station might make a good muster point, for example.

 

There also may be rare occasions when Babbage paths too close to a police drone as he travels to attack the TF members, but that's not a scenario I could reliably test. In one of my 40+ tests, he spawned fairly close to the south tram station. While he didn't get zapped by a drone in that instance, given the proximity of the spawn to the tram station it's not unreasonable to imagine that he might path too close to a drone.

 

A few theories that I was able to prove FALSE are:

1. Babbage won't spawn if the Superadine Raid (AKA the Troll Rave) is in progress (I was able to spawn him numerous times during the Troll Rave)
2. Babbage won't spawn if there is already a Babbage present in the zone from a different Synapse TF (I was able to spawn two concurrent Babbages without issue)

I'm certain that there is more testing that could be done, and there may be someone else out there with additional info that could help prove or disprove some of the above. But those are my conclusions based on the fairly extensive testing I performed. The thread I linked above has more details of my testing, should that be of interest.

 

Great work here!

 

One thing I have learned about spawning Kronos over the years (after the Project Wildflower mission, portal to base or nowadays just use any other portal power to a zone.  I usually choose Talos.) is that the amount of time it takes for it to spawn seems to vary tremendously from seconds to minutes, but I have never had it not spawn at all in dozens of attempts.  I idly speculate if there is some sort of a random timer baked in, or if that is merely because someone was standing on or near the spawn site.

[AboveTheChemist]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

One theory that had been put forth on multiple occasions by players waiting for him to show was that it's Skyway with all its bizarre underground and under-road passages and pockets, and that he's spawning in places from which he can not easily get to street level, nor quickly be found.  So the team moves on and he de-spawns.

 

That certainly seems reasonable. I saw Babbage make some impressive leaps, going from ground level to the highest overpass level in a couple of hops, but given the 3-D complexity of that zone it would not shock me if he occasionally gets stuck. He will despawn fairly rapidly if the team is too far away. If I remember correctly, he was a no-show three of the 40+ tests I ran. Each of those three times he did spawn, but despawned within 5-10 seconds. In each case I was waiting some distance away from the mission door, and my best explanation is that the distance between my character and his spawn location was great enough to either break aggro, or prevent him from aggroing at all, and he despawned.

 

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

One thing I have learned about spawning Kronos over the years (after the Project Wildflower mission, portal to base or nowadays just use any other portal power to a zone.  I usually choose Talos.) is that the amount of time it takes for it to spawn seems to vary tremendously from seconds to minutes, but I have never had it not spawn at all in dozens of attempts.  I idly speculate if there is some sort of a random timer baked in, or if that is merely because someone was standing on or near the spawn site.

 

I didn't time any of the spawns in my testing, but in most cases I would estimate that no more than 30 seconds or so elapsed between completing the mission (using Beta server commands) and Babbage attacking. I could probably get accurate timing numbers from my logs and/or my demo files, and I may look into that if the spirit strikes me.

[Turric]

I think I said this in the that other thread, but this seems like a relatively easy fix. Anchor that mission to a specific door, away from most other hazards, and then anchor Babbage spawn point very close by. Then it is a matter of training people to exit and look right/left and wallah! Babbage.

 

I also feel that most mission doors on a task force should be fixed to a particular spot, but that is another issue (and also a non-issue with newer task / strike forces).

[The Larker]

He spawned last night on our Synapse right across the way from our exit door. Ignored a mob of Lost and came straight for us. 

The area he spawned was between two warehouses, a road, and thats it.

Didn't see any tunnels underneath and the overpass was wwwaaayyy up in the air.

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:08 AM, Techwright said:

What is the cause/are the causes of Babbage not showing on occasion in Skyway when teams are doing the Synapse Task Force?

 

This has been an issue ever since the changes made to spawn points when they (foolishly IMO) made all those base portal changes.  GM spawn points have been messed up ever since.

[Clave Dark 5]

19 hours ago, The Larker said:

He spawned last night on our Synapse right across the way from our exit door. Ignored a mob of Lost and came straight for us. 

The area he spawned was between two warehouses, a road, and thats it.

Didn't see any tunnels underneath and the overpass was wwwaaayyy up in the air.

I recently saw him (apparently) spawn " down below" in one of those ground level areas that's effectively nearly underground compared to all the higher roadways around.  Someone had called out he was about to spawn and me and a dozen or so people gathered and flew about until I found him.  He was just standing around on the low low level there, but at least he wasn't literally under anything so I could spot him from the sky.  Some of the architecture on that map gets so convoluted, I wouldn't be surprised if he happened to spawn in a weird spot and then didn't get found soon enough.

[tidge]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:59 AM, AboveTheChemist said:

I'll start off with a few observations that, while not 100% ironclad facts, I feel confident are true.

1. Babbage spawns based on where the team leader exits the Clockwork Lord mission. So if the team leader portals to another zone from inside that mission, then Babbage will spawn in that other zone. It's important for the team leader (and perhaps the whole team, just to be safe) to exit that mission back into Skyway City to make sure he spawns in Skyway City.

 

I'm not convinced it has to be the TF leader. I was able to spawn Babbage in Steel Canyon by exiting the mission to SG base, and then base TP to Steel Canyon. On that occasion, I waited for the rest of the team to exit the mission before trying to save use time by visiting Positron. It's possible my zone changes resolved before other players of course.

 

On another occasion I teleported directly to Steel from the mission, on that one I think I was the TF leader.

[AboveTheChemist]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I'm not convinced it has to be the TF leader.

 

As noted, I am not 100% convinced either, but Babbage being tied to the TF leader seems to be the best fit of my testing experiences and the experiences of others. If anyone would like to volunteer a small amount of time on Brainstorm, I'd be happy to run a few more quick tests to get some solid data.

[Solarverse]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:59 AM, AboveTheChemist said:

 

There also may be rare occasions when Babbage paths too close to a police drone as he travels to attack the TF members

 

I have actually seen this happen, back on live...and just once. I happened to exit the train and seen him running toward the team he was going to attack, just to get droned. Like I said though, this was back on live and have only seen this happen one time.