Is there such a thing as societal norms in CoH?

[Ukase]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

So even if enhanced (with anything besides attuned and I believe no set bonuses was mentioned) then the 34 (or 40 w/e) Blaster had NO enhancement because they would have outleveled them. Fighting 50+ enemies.  Yeah.  That spot was vacant as far as team help was concerned.  No damage and just eating up peoples time by distracting anyone who tried to buff or pull agro from them.  Worse than a waste of space.  A detriment.  Sit by the door.  Easier to be carried that way

Not necessarily so, my friend. 

You can slot common IOs, and they don't show up as set bonuses. And the difference between a level 30 common IO and a level 40 (presumably - no idea what their actual level was) isn't that great. The common level 50 IO is probably a bit more of a buff than the common 30 IO, but I can understand having 30's or even 25's, and waiting for 50 to slot the 50's if you're not sitting on big stacks like myself. 

And don't forget about the auto-upgrade feature. Granted, this would be...gosh..I dunno, if there were enhancements to upgrade, 70 SOs at level 43? (they upgrade to your level +3). I think 4 million is a fair guess? I don't have any level 40's to check at the moment. 

In some ways, IOs were a fantastic addition to the game, giving people something to spend surplus influence on. But, there is a divide between the player with common IOs vs SOs, and a greater one still when it's IOs with set bonuses vs SOs. And for newer players, not only is the influence a temporary barrier, but the knowledge of the invention system is another. More than one player has chosen to forgo these in favor of the simpler SO system. 
 

But the big thing I simply do not understand - even if you're going to run naked/sans enhancements - why not at least level up? At least that way, you increase your capacity to hold inspirations, salvage, etc. 
I can understand a couple of levels not being trained. Maybe you just finished another TF and this opportunity came up - but they had time to train before the tf started, as they were on the team before me. Maybe they didn't know what they wanted? I dunno. 

I just find it to be selfish or ignorant - and either way, there is no excuse. The information is available, for free. But what I think is irrelevant. 

What I'm curious to know - and am learning as I read, is if this practice is acceptable to others. Because I'm inherently frugal. My dad was an economist. I'd love to team up with folks untrained, unslotted to 50. That would save me a lot of inf. Maybe 5 minutes that I could spend playing instead of marketing! 

 

[Ukase]

4 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

i suppose the answer is to build teams yourself to manage expectations. if i’m recruiting for a speed run i note on LFG that it’s 50+ / no MM’s (if someone is 40+ and pretty much fully slotted i’ll make an exception) 

 

some people are online for casual play, some are online for power play

That's fair, too. 

But it's not really about the unsavory experience of carrying someone along for a free ride. It's "is this acceptable?". 

And I do have two groups of friends (miserably enough - there are a few in each group that can't stand a few in the other group - lots of hurt feelings and such), but I wasn't sure how much I could play today, so I jumped into the first group that was doing what I needed to get done. 

I don't necessarily mind that it took 40 minutes, even though that is a longer than average time for a team. I do mind someone essentially being carried to this degree without any thoughts about the rest of the team. At least I finally got some use out of Vengeance. It was annoying when it wasn't recharged, though. 

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

On a slightly more serious note, we always have options.  We can quit a team for whatever reason, we can join another team who seem like a safer bet, or we can start our own teams with whatever criteria we want.  The flipside is that if we don't use those options and have a miserable time, well, that's on us.

Maybe the times have changed. Back on Live - you NEVER EVER quit a task force. It's just plain rude. Granted, those were days when team composition mattered. Lose a blaster, and you lose key dps. Lose a tank and it might as well reform. Every player was important then. 

Now, I guess it's because we're older, smarter and can do the harder math - we can build our characters to be self-sufficient. Still, quitting a task force is a no-no in my book. Then, I'd be the jerk in action if not in attitude.  Unless something severe happens in real life, you just don't quit a task force. 

[Apparition]

59 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Maybe the times have changed. Back on Live - you NEVER EVER quit a task force. It's just plain rude. Granted, those were days when team composition mattered. Lose a blaster, and you lose key dps. Lose a tank and it might as well reform. Every player was important then. 

Now, I guess it's because we're older, smarter and can do the harder math - we can build our characters to be self-sufficient. Still, quitting a task force is a no-no in my book. Then, I'd be the jerk in action if not in attitude.  Unless something severe happens in real life, you just don't quit a task force. 

 

 

I saw it all of the time while PUGing on Excelsior... like once a day.  Have only ever seen it twice on Torchbearer in the past fourteen months.  Excelsior is too large, like a big city, where you can get away with that kind of stuff without it coming back to haunt you, unlike smaller shards where most people know one another and there are reputations.  I don't think it's out of malice or self-centeredness most of the time, mostly just ignorance brought on by only doing radio/newspaper missions and/or AE farms, and not realizing that teams on TFs, SFs, and trials are locked in and the team leader can't recruit someone else after you leave.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Apparition

[Snarky]

I hate to say it but tge culture on Excelsior is very similar to Freedumb server on Live.  Garbage pug groups and all the manners of a NYC subway station 

[TheOtherTed]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

quitting a task force is a no-no in my book

As I said, it would take a lot to make me bail on a team.  And I mean a LOT.  But If I stick with a team, I sure as heck don't complain about it on the forums.

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, TheOtherTed said:

As I said, it would take a lot to make me bail on a team.  And I mean a LOT.  But If I stick with a team, I sure as heck don't complain about it on the forums.

Oh I do.  Heck I will complain about ANYTHING on the forums.  Go ahead, search, see for yourself

 

A Team, SF, TF, or Trial is not a clandestine secret operation.  There is no expectation of privacy.  I do try to avoid calling out specific names.  This from simple courtesy and hard won wisdom.

 

The forums are the “locker room” of the game. We share strategies that work and that do not.  We share accomplishments and failures.  We relate our experiences for education and entertainment.  We cheer on, complain, congratulate, rage, lift up, and tear down.  Hopefully without making it personal   Except when giving credit, drop names then

[TheOtherTed]

Great.  And what works, for me, is backing up the "weakest link" instead of calling them out.  IMO it's pretty much the spirit of the game (except maybe redside - but even that's a firm "maybe").

 

I'll admit I'm a bit touchy about this sort of thing.  Even before sunset, I could feel the shift from "fun team game" to "serious business."  From IO set obsession to AE farms to a flood of players who kept trying to play this as a "holy trinity" game, I'd gone from loving the randomness of PUGs to finding the drama of "optimality" just not worth my time.

 

If the team leader invites a level 34 to a level 40 TF, that's his/her call.  The rest of the team can stick around and complain, or they can bail to form their own TF, or they can adjust and maybe, just maybe, find some camaraderie in making the best of a sub-optimal situation.

[Greldek]

2 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

As I said, it would take a lot to make me bail on a team.  And I mean a LOT.  But If I stick with a team, I sure as heck don't complain about it on the forums.

I have quit a few TFs when the leader refuses to lower difficulty and our team clearly cant handle it.

 

When its taking half an hour just to clear the 1st mission of posi 1 because it's all fresh lvl 8s and the leader insists on doing it at +4.. well then good luck with that.

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Greldek said:

I have quit a few TFs when the leader refuses to lower difficulty and our team clearly cant handle it.

 

When its taking half an hour just to clear the 1st mission of posi 1 because it's all fresh lvl 8s and the leader insists on doing it at +4.. well then good luck with that.

This is why I haven't done a posi with anyone ...since maybe the first month or so HC came back. It's faster to solo it. 

[ShardWarrior]

Some people take this game much, much too seriously in my opinion.  I will never understand the need to criticize others and to dictate to them how they should or should not be building their characters and playing the game.  Honestly, if this bothered you so much, leave the team and find something else to do more suitable to your liking.  You save yourself and all your teammates whom you are complaining to a lot of grief. 

 

9 hours ago, Sovereigne said:

We've all joined teams we were not really contributing to at one point or another

 

^This. 

[roleki]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:43 AM, Ukase said:

[...] Most of you wouldn't be too surprised if I told you one of the blasters died a few times. Still, when we have all these holds and debuffs, nobody should really be taking much damage, at least, not until we face an av. And nobody was. Except this blaster. 

I finally realize that he's level 34. Not vet level 34, I checked. 

[...]

 

That's it?  Someone brought a slightly undercooked Blaster?  It's not like the guy tried to bring a fully T4'd Sentinel to a PUG hoping nobody would notice.

[JasperStone]

PUGs are like legos left on the floor that you accidentally step on 

...

except I love Legos.

 

My Home is Indom, but I have been playing a lot on Excelsior recently (@Snarky ...where are you)

I avoid PUGs by doing ITrails led by people who obviously know what they are doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

With respect to the title question, I'd say yes.  We form a society of some sort, where we are undoubtedly very diverse in shape, form, and thought, but we all have one thing in common:  we enjoy playing this game.  For me, it's a very good thing to belong to a group like this.  On a slight tangent, I'd like to express my opinion that there is *far* less dickery on HC than there was on Live.  Maybe that's just my perspective, but I'm grateful for that.

 

As far as all this about how to play on a team or whatever, I find it to be so much less important that what I discussed in the first paragraph that I personally find it practically irrelevant.

 

Happy hunting!

[High_Beam]

I was a Freedom player exclusively on live and while there were plenty of ass hats to go around there, I rarely ran into a problem with the PUGs I ran with, really only when the OG Positron Task Force was the only Positron Task Force did I see players at their worst.  Rollister would do that to you.  I will also agree with Yomo Kimyata that there seems to be less ass hattery on HC and I do play on Excelsior.

 

Societal norms are dependent on the society establishing, and enforcing the norms.  If dickery is allowed because nobody has the stones to say "hey dude, stop being a jerk" then dickery becomes the accepted norm.  The mindset of avoiding conflict is the reason we cant have nice things.  As the immortal Patrick Swayze once said, "be nice until its time to not be nice".

[Luminara]

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

The forums are the “locker room” of the game.

 

We're all naked.

 

[Marine X]

I am gun shy these days. I play at odd hours mostly on Reunion so not a lot of teaming opportunities anyway. When I have, it always ends up being someone who wants to run ahead or speed run, completing mission objectives for me.

One person asked if I minded if they joined me, I said okay and invited them, then they asked me to invite a friend of theirs, which I did, and that was who went hog wild in my mission. I was at level 39, they were level 50. They never said a word to me the whole time, just took over and ran off, I texted them, no response. Finished the mission and politely excused myself. Last time I teamed. Every time I consider teaming that pops in my head. That toon is now an Incarnate, did 39-50+ all solo as usual, and have another solo toon to 36. It stinks, but solo the only person who can annoy me is me, and I'm pretty thick skinned, but why join a team and take over without talking to the guy with the star. When I played on Virtue I was always a good Team Tank so I really miss teaming, but the group of people from Live and the few I've played with on HC are not very active anymore.

 

 

PS ( This person seems to share my schedule on Reunion, see them in looking for group constantly, shame they soured me on them, oh well )

Edited June 6, 2022 by Marine X

[biostem]

Communication is key:  "Hey all!  Thanks for inviting me!  May I ask what difficulty we're running this at, and is it a kill all/speed run/etc?"  Would've saved the OP a lot of frustration...

[UltraAlt]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:43 AM, Ukase said:

PUGs. Ain't they great? 

 

Yes. I love a PUG.

I have very few people that I game with consistently.

So if I'm doing a task force, I'm always in a PUG. If I join or if I recruit it is a PUG.

 

I PUGed mostly before the sunset.

PUGs are great because you never know the mix of characters that are going to be on the team.

Sometimes they go bad, but, more often than not, people figure out what is going on, the group gels, and everything runs smoothly.

 

There are times when it doesn't because people rush in too much.

 

More times than not, a PUG gets ruined by someone that decides it's their job to make it a speed task force or wants to tell other people what to do. 

 

It's always important when recruiting to make it clear what kind of task force you are recruiting for. Is it an XP taskforce? Is it a speed taskforce? Do you want to have a lot of knockback on the team? 

If you are joining a task force, you can always ask.

 

And I guess it is always good to point out that you may be playing with someone that is 5 years old. They may not even be the ones that keep falling in battle. They just might not be chatting so much.

If you are the one that knowledgeable about the game, you should be able to figure out how to help the players that are having issues through assisting them without needing to tell them what to do.

 

If you don't like PUGs, it's easy enough to avoid them.

[Erratic1]

16 hours ago, Ukase said:

This is why I haven't done a posi with anyone ...since maybe the first month or so HC came back. It's faster to solo it. 

 

I have no recollection of doing Posi at anything beyond +1, which is itself a rarity--most Posi TFs I do are at stock, unmodified, +0.

 

What server are you on?

[UltraAlt]

30 minutes ago, Marine X said:

I am gun shy these days. I play at odd hours mostly on Reunion so not a lot of teaming opportunities anyway. When I have, it always ends up being someone who wants to run ahead or speed run, completing mission objectives for me.

 

start putting those people on ignore and pretty soon you won't have to worry about them any more.

Someone wants a friend to join? tell them to have their friend send you a tell. if you don't get the message, you just saved yourself the hassle.

[Erratic1]

32 minutes ago, Marine X said:

I am gun shy these days. I play at odd hours mostly on Reunion so not a lot of teaming opportunities anyway. When I have, it always ends up being someone who wants to run ahead or speed run, completing mission objectives for me.

 

I stay with the group barring someone doing something actively annoying to the character I'm playing (which generally involves me playing a melee character and either someone knocking everything all over the place or a trigger-happy controller locking things down while they are still spread apart). I do not begrudge the person with knockback or the controller wanting to use their powers, but I want to use mine too.

[biostem]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:43 AM, Ukase said:

PUGs. Ain't they great? 

It's a bit of a crap-shoot, sure, but I've met some really great people via PUGs, and if you don't have the time commitment for a TF, they're a great alternative, (more referring to radio missions here, though).

Edited June 6, 2022 by biostem

[Erratic1]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

It's a bit of a crap-shoot, sure, but I've met some really great people via PUGs, and if you don't have the time commitment for a TF, they're a great alternative, (more referring to radio missions here, though).

 

With the exception of the one TF I do per week with the SG one of my characters joined, every TF I do is with PUGs. Most PUGs I do run perfectly fine without hiccup. The last problem I had on one was one guy ignoring requests to not zip ahead to the next mission and complete it before everyone could even zone in and that caused the leader to quit and the rest of us to disband. The previous problematic PUG TF does not even come to mind as it is that rare an occasion. 

 

I honestly wonder what sort of "Christmas in Heaven" experience people are supposedly getting out of their committed TF groups, because I am thinking it has to be like taking some sort of mix of LSD and unicorn horns with the absolute condescension displayed towards PUGs.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

I honestly wonder what sort of "Christmas in Heaven" experience people are supposedly getting out of their committed TF groups, because I am thinking it has to be like taking some sort of mix of LSD and unicorn horns with the absolute condescension displayed towards PUGs.

Well, I presume they go 1 of 2 ways:  Extremely quick, (a lot of stealth, ATT use, or just knowing where the objective all are), or a lot of BS-ing with each other and just running casually.  I can't speak for everyone else, but there are definitely times when I'm kind of half-playing with other casual folks, and just kind of on auto-pilot as a way to unwind...