Not sure what I am missing

[Qelan]

I am taking massive damage on all my toons with 90% resist after this patch, I not sure what I am missing and hope someone could help me

[UltraAlt]

13 minutes ago, Qelan said:

I am taking massive damage on all my toons with 90% resist after this patch, I not sure what I am missing and hope someone could help me

 

 

[Lines]

4 hours ago, Qelan said:

I am taking massive damage on all my toons with 90% resist after this patch, I not sure what I am missing and hope someone could help me

 

 

The change UltraAlt linked shouldn't impact what you're describing.

 

Could you give some more details? Is this all incoming damage that appears to be boosted?

Could you show some logs from the combat chat?

Also show us the build from the enhancement window and combat details? Are we talking 90% to all resists?

Edited August 24, 2022 by Lines

[Li_Sensei]

Do NOT underestimate the influence of the aggro system changes on the amount of inocming damage.

 

If you're aggro capped (16 mobs aggroed on you) it used to be that (assuming you're solo) any others past the cap would ignore you and not attack.

 

Nowadays, you can be taking attacks from more than those directly aggroed on you.

 

So if, for example, you're a fire farmer, and you wade into the middle of a map and are surrounded by spawns?  You're gonna be hurting, purely from the increase in number of attacks.

 

All this is my current understanding, subject to confirmation, clarification and change.

[Digirium]

No, not the damage type changes it is the aggro changes.

 

I presume the OP is talking about a farm but it applies to any content. Using the example of a farm, the farming character used to enjoy no more than 17 critters attacking at a time. Other critters not involved in attacking the farmer but inside aggro range (meaning the critter had seen the farmer) would stand around with their arms folded doing nothing, waiting in a queue to attack the farmer.

 

Page 4 changed that. Instead of doing nothing, critters in aggro but not in the set of 17 will make opportunistic ranged attacks.

 

There is a lot more incoming damage now and existing farming builds will be defeated.

 

The mitigation is to redesign the character build for increased hit-point or health regeneration. It is not enough to just have 90% resist and 45% defence. Good health regeneration is needed too (40+ hp/sec is a good ballpark to reach without accolades). One or two self-heal procs help but not more than this. For a farm with maximum influence proper attack chains are needed so secondary damage types may also need mitigation.

 

For example, a fire farm. Critters with a full attack chain for maximum influence will be doing fire primary with lethal/smashing secondary. Some mitigation to the secondary damage type helps not to the same extent as mitigation for the primary damage.

[Ukase]

18 minutes ago, Digirium said:

No, not the damage type changes it is the aggro changes.

 

I presume the OP is talking about a farm but it applies to any content. Using the example of a farm, the farming character used to enjoy no more than 17 critters attacking at a time. Other critters not involved in attacking the farmer but inside aggro range (meaning the critter had seen the farmer) would stand around with their arms folded doing nothing, waiting in a queue to attack the farmer.

 

Page 4 changed that. Instead of doing nothing, critters in aggro but not in the set of 17 will make opportunistic ranged attacks.

 

There is a lot more incoming damage now and existing farming builds will be defeated.

 

The mitigation is to redesign the character build for increased hit-point or health regeneration. It is not enough to just have 90% resist and 45% defence. Good health regeneration is needed too (40+ hp/sec is a good ballpark to reach without accolades). One or two self-heal procs help but not more than this. For a farm with maximum influence proper attack chains are needed so secondary damage types may also need mitigation.

 

For example, a fire farm. Critters with a full attack chain for maximum influence will be doing fire primary with lethal/smashing secondary. Some mitigation to the secondary damage type helps not to the same extent as mitigation for the primary damage.

For an active farmer, any decent build will not have to do a thing. Absolutely nothing. Yes, they may have to use their healing flames, but if they're an active farmer, that's not an issue.  
AFK farmers will definitely need to tweak some things - hit points, regen are great places to start. 

[The_Warpact]

The only change I had to do was just toggle on Tough. Back to AFK farming 🤷‍♂️

[Digirium]

3 minutes ago, Ukase said:

For an active farmer, any decent build will not have to do a thing. Absolutely nothing. Yes, they may have to use their healing flames, but if they're an active farmer, that's not an issue.  
AFK farmers will definitely need to tweak some things - hit points, regen are great places to start. 

 

That may be true however I look at it the other way around. Make a farming build that can survive AFK, it will work no problem at all running active and without needed healing flames in the build freeing up slots for something else. The purpose of an active build is to complete ASAP having to use healing flames interrupts the attack chain. Admittedly, it is a small difference but percentages matter. There are probably active builds with healing flames that won't survive now.

[biostem]

Can we please make it an official thing that if you post about something being "off" with a game mechanic, that you provide a combat log showing that... 

[Ukase]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

Can we please make it an official thing that if you post about something being "off" with a game mechanic, that you provide a combat log showing that... 

I understand where you're coming from, but you're asking too much. As far as I know, I can scroll through my combat log, but there is no way to actually log it into a text file. If there is, I'd love to know how to do that. 
When in combat, that data flies by too fast to get a grasp of anything. 

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

When in combat, that data flies by too fast to get a grasp of anything. 

Create a new chat window, add only the combat stuff into it.  Fight 1 enemy or a single group, then you can click & drag to highlight, then copy it, or just scroll back up and take a screenshot.

 

 

Here's a sample:

 

Equinox Parasite HITS you! Pummel power had a 38.25% chance to hit and rolled a 4.51.
Equinox Parasite hits you with their Pummel for 60.91 points of Smashing damage.
Equinox Parasite knocks you off your feet with their Pummel!
You received Incarnate Thread.

[Lines]

9 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I understand where you're coming from, but you're asking too much. As far as I know, I can scroll through my combat log, but there is no way to actually log it into a text file. If there is, I'd love to know how to do that. 
When in combat, that data flies by too fast to get a grasp of anything. 

 

There is a /logchat command, which I think logs whichever tab is active - I've not tried it for combat though.

 

Even just a snippet would show the difference between more damage per attack, or more regular attacks. The second one might be expected due to the ai changes.

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Lines said:

There is a /logchat command, which I think logs whichever tab is active - I've not tried it for combat though.

 

Even just a snippet would show the difference between more damage per attack, or more regular attacks. The second one might be expected due to the ai changes.

I would also like to add that I couldn't find a way to have the log display the % by which your powers are reducing the damage, so you'd have to let the enemy attack you with and without the armor(s) on, then you could compare the results.  There is some variability in damage numbers, but most enemies have only a few attacks, so they should use the same ones on you over and over - you could just load up a radio mission set to +0, (or +1 if you've got the Alpha level shift), so said level differences don't impact the results...

[Ukase]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

I would also like to add that I couldn't find a way to have the log display the % by which your powers are reducing the damage, so you'd have to let the enemy attack you with and without the armor(s) on, then you could compare the results.  There is some variability in damage numbers, but most enemies have only a few attacks, so they should use the same ones on you over and over - you could just load up a radio mission set to +0, (or +1 if you've got the Alpha level shift), so said level differences don't impact the results...

I suppose it would depend on what you are trying to demonstrate. Sitting in an AE fire farm without armor isn't going to show much at all, because without the armor, you will certainly be defeated within seconds. And that wouldn't tell me what I want to know. 
From what I understand, there's an issue with players understanding how damage is coming in with the latest patch. The only anecdotal difference I see is taking in more ranged attacks from the mobs that used to ignore my farmer. And in some of those cave maps, with patrols....that can add up to quite a bit of ranged damage coming in. It's funny; it kind of reminds me of the "skittles" look the DE has in the Eden trial. Just missing the flavor. But, it's hard for me to tell if they're using fire blast, or fire ball. 
But, there's no way (for me) to analyze the combat log in action, and there's no way to save the combat log to a file. Again, someone mentioned you could, but I haven't been able to do it. 

I can log chat..there's an option for that, but logging the combat log...it's a bit scary, because so much information goes through that in just a few minutes, if I'm not careful, I could see my hard drive filling up pretty quick. In any event, I haven't found a way to do it. 

Edit: I found this just now, a follow up on one of my posts before the patch hits. I will have to try it out, see if it works. I used Snip & Sketch to copy this over from that post: 
It looks like I wrote it, but it's an actual pic copied over - which is why Black Spectre's name shows in it. 

*************************************

*************************************************************

Edited August 24, 2022 by Ukase

[Snarky]

Well this screws Dark Armor Brutes in normal content as well then.  For those unfamiliar a very significant portion of Dark Armor mitigation is non suppressed stealth and control toggles.  But that will be overwhelmed by having multiple groups past agro cap wanting a piece of the action.  

[High_Beam]

While playing a blaster (and the two symph builds) I felt the changes to the aggro deal a little which I found refreshing; made me move around a little more.

[Ukase]

I ran the the new arc...Sister Valeria's, yesterday, on my fire/fire blaster. Since I still needed Legatus for 100 incarnate Cim traitors and 100 of these Ravenna npcs, I ran it at 0/8. 

I really didn't notice any changes to aggro at all, but between judgement and inferno, nothing lasted very long, except the EBs. But, I am prone to being quite obtuse. I wasn't really looking for aggro changes. I just wanted to get the silly badges. 

Now, I'm just waiting for some lowball bids on the PAPs, and my character can rest again until the next patch. 

[KC4800]

Fire/Savage tank enjoying the new aggro. Fire farming only but seems easier, actually.

Katana/Dark scrapper enjoying the new aggro. Murdered Carnies only, so far.

EM/Inv Brute getting murdered by the Nictus foes in the new arc. Those teleporting healers are the new most hated enemy.

Ice/FF Corruptor has to change tactics quite a bit. Will be forcing a lot of foes onto a corner with force bubble, instead of just slows.

Still to try: MM and blasters.

[The_Warpact]

21 minutes ago, KC4800 said:

 

EM/Inv Brute getting murdered by the Nictus foes in the new arc. Those teleporting healers are the new most hated enemy.

Explain plz, I'm not getting the TP part. They TP away or TP you to them?

[KC4800]

14 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Explain plz, I'm not getting the TP part. They TP away or TP you to them?

They TP away. Apparently they don't want to get punched in the face. 

[KaizenSoze]

There are three changes that effect farming with page 4.

 

• Aggro rules change, which people have talked about
• Attack type change some attacks were changed to use non slash/lethal as the primary component. I do no think this effects fire farming a lot, but other types of farms might notice a difference
• AE changes, which I think many people aren't aware
  • Primary sets now have lower recharge timers than secondary sets
  • All Custom Enemy ranged attacks have a minimum range of 80ft.

Combine these three changes together. Farmers are taking more attacks, from more mobs, and sometimes in different types than before.

Edited August 24, 2022 by KaizenSoze

[The_Warpact]

44 minutes ago, KC4800 said:

They TP away. Apparently they don't want to get punched in the face. 

Ffffffffffffffffvvvvvvvcccccccckkkkkkkkk

That's crappy I hate those @ssholes.

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

Well this screws Dark Armor Brutes in normal content as well then.  For those unfamiliar a very significant portion of Dark Armor mitigation is non suppressed stealth and control toggles.  But that will be overwhelmed by having multiple groups past agro cap wanting a piece of the action.  

 

I don't see how non-suppressed stealth is impacted.  If anything, it does what it always has done and keeps you FROM aggroing nearby groups unless you really want to.  It also doesn't affect teams much because excess aggro will spill onto teammates just the same as before.

 

Only situation where you are getting more incoming fire than before is if you solo and intentionally pull multiple x8 sized groups, previously relying on the aggro cap to "regulate" the incoming fire.  That's why it's mostly farmers talking about it.

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, The_Warpact said:

Explain plz, I'm not getting the TP part. They TP away or TP you to them?

 

Incarnate level Surgeons use Combat Teleport with impunity and demonstrate intelligence in where they decide to port off to.¹

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Glorious.

 

So glad we're actually seeing stuff like this more and more instead of just the same old murder-balls.

 

(edit)

 

1 - I found they will often port to a spot where they maintain LOS on their buff/heal targets but are still sort of "lurking just around that corner." Seek them there or just macro CT/Jaunt to target and follow them when they port.

Edited August 24, 2022 by InvaderStych
added info

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

I don't see how non-suppressed stealth is impacted.  If anything, it does what it always has done and keeps you FROM aggroing nearby groups unless you really want to.  It also doesn't affect teams much because excess aggro will spill onto teammates just the same as before.

 

Only situation where you are getting more incoming fire than before is if you solo and intentionally pull multiple x8 sized groups, previously relying on the aggro cap to "regulate" the incoming fire.  That's why it's mostly farmers talking about it.

I have had issues with Dark in large team settings.  Memorably on a shadow shard TF in a “crossroads” of a cave map.  Those eyeballs alert everyone.  Anytime you have rikti,eyeballs, those damn nemesis captains or similar tour stealth is gone.  Your auras only work on what is right near you.  And with a now effectively unlimited agro cap any resistance armor (and i do build for very very high values) will inevitably implode under the pressure.  When a submarine goes below crush depth there is only one scientific outcome.  This change negates the very slim margin that Dark Armor relied on to be effective.  Sad.  Will move on