Another nail in the Brute coffin

[Snarky]

21 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I think we should all get behind that and then see how the Brutes fare. Someone should make a request.

I did not even put down how crap the Brite’s ATO is compared to other melee class ATOs.   I was just listing actual things that made Brute’s situation worse.  But yes, giving otber melee classes really nice ATOs while giving Brutes a fizzy drink shows how much love there is for Brutes in modern CoH.  The time has past for the glorious days of busting out of the ZIG and ROFLSTOMPing your way through the game.  Was good times.   Mic drop

[Sovera]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

I did not even put down how crap the Brite’s ATO is compared to other melee class ATOs.   I was just listing actual things that made Brute’s situation worse.  But yes, giving otber melee classes really nice ATOs while giving Brutes a fizzy drink shows how much love there is for Brutes in modern CoH.  The time has past for the glorious days of busting out of the ZIG and ROFLSTOMPing your way through the game.  Was good times.   Mic drop

 

Are you aiming for Snarky 'The Hyperbole' as your new super hero name?

[Infinitum]

I was bored

 

 

[Thrax]

I will say this about the main post. I’ve done six or eight of the new ITFs. Few I’d each aside from 1 4 star. I’ve yet to see a brute on any of them. I’ve scrapped on a few, tanked one, and buffed/rebuffed the others. People are getting picky about what goes on the team, which is fine. Unsure if no one bringing brutes or they being asked to change. 

[FUBARczar]

6 hours ago, Thrax said:

I will say this about the main post. I’ve done six or eight of the new ITFs. Few I’d each aside from 1 4 star. I’ve yet to see a brute on any of them. I’ve scrapped on a few, tanked one, and buffed/rebuffed the others. People are getting picky about what goes on the team, which is fine. Unsure if no one bringing brutes or they being asked to change. 

Personally my dream team would have two Brutes, two Blasters, and four buff/debuff.  

 

A Tanker is like a baby blanket, it just helps people feel more secure.  

 

[Nemu]

I did a 3 star ITF yesterday on my Staff/Regen Brute with Whirlwind.

 

She SPIN so hard, and kept SPINNING through Nictus possession, and we won.

 

End of story.

 

Forget Brute ATOs, SPINNING is OP.

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

Personally my dream team would have two Brutes, two Blasters, and four buff/debuff.  

 

A Tanker is like a baby blanket, it just helps people feel more secure.  

 

Then Brutes must be...

[flakoff]

I think brutes are fine,  give love to sents and mm pets first.

[Snarky]

On 9/8/2022 at 1:32 PM, flakoff said:

I think brutes are fine,  give love to sents and mm pets first.

While it is true Sentinels and MMs suffer greatly THIS IS A BRUTE THREAD.  

 

Seriously though, sentinels suffer, even suffer worse, than Brutes by being a Hybrid design that the Dev staff has never known what to do with.  Brutes had a glory day, until archetype mixing when ugly jealousy and champions of Scrappers and Tanks were able to cut Brutes to pieces inch by F-ing inch.  I have a currently built Elec Temp Blaster which is more survivable than 95% of sentinels and outdamages Sentinels with half its offensive powers tied behind its back.  

 

Masterminds never found a niche, honestly.  originally designed as the redside Tank teams had zero patience for the setup and Brutes were charging in and mostly Tanking (or else) anyways.  So MMs became a concept class mostly.

 

But Brutes were fine, if a little dated for todays modern game of damage patches and now extra agro from artillery NPCs.  But Brutes have been stolen from and watched adjacent classes be given great stuff, then they get stolen from a bit more.  then a bit more.  

 

Its enough to give you Fury.  Except that got nerfed, and no doubt will get nerfed again.  *looks at spreadsheet graph of trends.  Yep, math checks out.  Fury should get another nerf in a patch or two.

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Snarky

[WindDemon21]

On 8/25/2022 at 5:40 PM, roleki said:

Well, the same aggro problems apply to Scrappers and they don't even get decent resists.  I make jokes that they want City of Tanks, but, come on.  It's on rails now.

They actually get the EXACT same resists... Brutes just have a higher cap which only comes into play usually with smash/lethal and the elemental type of a specific set.

 

This is one thing that always made me eyeball brutes badly. They should really have resist/defense values in BETWEEN tankers and scrap/stalkers

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

They actually get the EXACT same resists... Brutes just have a higher cap which only comes into play usually with smash/lethal and the elemental type of a specific set.

 

This is one thing that always made me eyeball brutes badly. They should really have resist/defense values in BETWEEN tankers and scrap/stalkers

That would be considered a buff

 

*checks notes carefully

 

 

nope, Brutes never get buffs.  It’s in the core game rules

[SomeGuy]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:32 PM, flakoff said:

I think brutes are fine, 

 

 

lol this is hilarious

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

They actually get the EXACT same resists... Brutes just have a higher cap which only comes into play usually with smash/lethal and the elemental type of a specific set.

 

This is one thing that always made me eyeball brutes badly. They should really have resist/defense values in BETWEEN tankers and scrap/stalkers

 

Could and should. HP-Max is at 2088, 2410, 3213 and 3534 for the 4 ATs. Base values (edit: and caps!) for the armors should follow the same ratio.

 

That's right... nerf stalkers and buff brutes. Then make sure damage output follows the same inverse rule.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Could and should. HP-Max is at 2088, 2410, 3213 and 3534 for the 4 ATs. Base values (edit: and caps!) for the armors should follow the same ratio.

 

That's right... nerf stalkers and buff brutes. Then make sure damage output follows the same inverse rule.

But Brutes damage output is much closer to Scrappers.  Which brings us full circle to the real issue.  With Going Rogue and mixing RED/Blue The parallel games collided and the endless discussions of rebalancing and various nerfs and buffs happened.  

 

Brutes will never play the way they once did.  The one tire is flat and I think there is a coolant leak.  The current Dev team (in my opinion) is much more interested at writing end game content (and are doing a great job, incredible if you realize how little resources they have) and (it seems to me, unfortunately) trying to streamline the games ATs.  Brutes are not streamlined.  They are the A10 Warthog of the game.  Good at one job and that is it.  A job the current Devs do not see valuable, and are actively writing content that the Brute is crappy at.  (They did not start that, unavoidable damage patches did) They are continuing the trend though.  Heavy melee is less and less valuable.  The modern game needs one or possibly two tanks, a ton of ranged DPS, and some buffers/debuffers/healers.  Control is useless except somewhat randomly where it is absolutely required.  

[Bill Z Bubba]

40 minutes ago, Snarky said:

But Brutes damage output is much closer to Scrappers.

 

It's really not. Scrapper +crit IOs send them way ahead. Brute damage is much closer to the tank side than the scrapper side these days.

[Riverdusk]

Not sure I'd put brutes in a coffin myself, but actually surprised no one is here mentioning the new ability of tanks to now skip the tier 1 attack in their secondary?  I love the change for the game overall, but I do think that's an advantage that brutes had over tankers that is now gone.

 

 

[Snarky]

24 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Not sure I'd put brutes in a coffin myself, but actually surprised no one is here mentioning the new ability of tanks to now skip the tier 1 attack in their secondary?  I love the change for the game overall, but I do think that's an advantage that brutes had over tankers that is now gone.

 

 

Just another benefit to Tanks and by extension a detriment to Brute play.  Par for the course.  Another couple months there will be another modification that benefits Tanks.  
 

The current Devs are building for Blasters.  Blasters want one Tank, preferably not a Brute.  They want to clean mobs without help.  Putting out sugar cubes for Tankers is just polite

[Infinitum]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

Just another benefit to Tanks and by extension a detriment to Brute play.  Par for the course.  Another couple months there will be another modification that benefits Tanks.  
 

The current Devs are building for Blasters.  Blasters want one Tank, preferably not a Brute.  They want to clean mobs without help.  Putting out sugar cubes for Tankers is just polite

Just look on the bright side stalkers can also skip hide.

 

You know someone will.  lol

[evetsleep]

11 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Just look on the bright side stalkers can also skip hide.

 

You know someone will.  lol

In a game where we have petless masterminds this seems highly likely and I bet some will find some interesting niche's where it'll actually work.

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, evetsleep said:

In a game where we have petless masterminds

Guilty. Hahaha

[Sanguinesun]

On 10/12/2022 at 8:47 PM, evetsleep said:

In a game where we have petless masterminds this seems highly likely and I bet some will find some interesting niche's where it'll actually work.

 

Given the upcoming changes for necro involving their attacks spawning pets, necro's will now be the only mm that can't run as a petless challenge one too 😛

[evetsleep]

5 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

Given the upcoming changes for necro involving their attacks spawning pets, necro's will now be the only mm that can't run as a petless challenge one too 😛

 

That sounds like a challenge....

[Paragon Vanguard]

I just dont get why complain. If you like the tank class, then play it. Many of us like brutes as is. Of course we all want better (add whatever), but,  anything added would literally make them tank better than tanks, and then we would have to raise the damage of tanks because SOMEONE will complain about that, making the tanks better brutes, and then ..... well, you get the picture. If you want a true tank, play a tank. Stop class envying as if somehow you HAVE to play a brute. No arms twisted. Choose what fits you best. I can't play a squid. I have tried so many times, I JUST CAN'T DO IT....I can't git gud. So ....I don't. Must mean they need to change Kheldians (sp) to suite me, right? 

I know this sounds too simple, and some will complain that I said it like I did, but you know what, it really is that simple. If you choose to no longer play a brute because you just can't handle ranged damage, well, I can guarantee you there will be plenty still playing brutes. No nerfs needed, no changes needed. 

 

Tone is difficult in text, but none of this is meant to be mean, just meant to hopefully spark another way to look at it. Blaze away! 🙂

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, Paragon Vanguard said:

I just dont get why complain. If you like the tank class, then play it. Many of us like brutes as is. Of course we all want better (add whatever), but,  anything added would literally make them tank better than tanks, and then we would have to raise the damage of tanks because SOMEONE will complain about that, making the tanks better brutes, and then ..... well, you get the picture. If you want a true tank, play a tank. Stop class envying as if somehow you HAVE to play a brute. No arms twisted. Choose what fits you best. I can't play a squid. I have tried so many times, I JUST CAN'T DO IT....I can't git gud. So ....I don't. Must mean they need to change Kheldians (sp) to suite me, right? 

I know this sounds too simple, and some will complain that I said it like I did, but you know what, it really is that simple. If you choose to no longer play a brute because you just can't handle ranged damage, well, I can guarantee you there will be plenty still playing brutes. No nerfs needed, no changes needed. 

 

Tone is difficult in text, but none of this is meant to be mean, just meant to hopefully spark another way to look at it. Blaze away! 🙂

So a class can get fixed to be enjoyable/worth it on it's own right? Case: see MM fixes now and down the road.

 

As a standpoint, i think brutes really just need to have their defense/resist values to be in between tanks and scrappers, and maybe less reliance on fury by increasing base damage and lowering the fury bonus/max damage cap.

[WindDemon21]

And the ato fury proc fixed to something more useful like a resist proc like tanks have.