Focused Feedback: Power Level Availability Changes

[Wavicle]

12 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Dom's tier 2 assaults are usually some of the better powers in their sets.  They're melee attacks with high dpa to coax you into thinking of them as a hybrid assault approach.  

 

Bone Smasher available right out of the gate will be awesome!  Dark's t2 is its best dpa power.  Lots of upside on this for doms being able to skip a quickly obsolete power for a very strong one.

 

You may have missed my point.

Power pools aren't open until 4. So a Dom at level 1, in most cases, can take their Hold and their good attack like Bone Smasher, and then at level 2 they will have 3 powers to choose from: 2 immobs and the t1 secondary.

So we STILL have to take a worthless power that can just be taken off the bar and only used as a mule. We just have a choice of which one.

[Mezmera]

6 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

You may have missed my point.

Power pools aren't open until 4. So a Dom at level 1, in most cases, can take their Hold and their good attack like Bone Smasher, and then at level 2 they will have 3 powers to choose from: 2 immobs and the t1 secondary.

So we STILL have to take a worthless power that can just be taken off the bar and only used as a mule. We just have a choice of which one.

 

Ah well yeah you're going with 2 control powers for sure.  It really depends on the control set as to what good powers it has to offer in those first 3.  At least now you're getting a very usable attack. Some control sets could use a juggling but an aoe immob that does damage at t3 if that's its power available is a decent power.  

Edited October 7, 2022 by Mezmera

[Wavicle]

5 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

 It really depends on the control set as to what good powers it has to offer in those first 3.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

 

  

5 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Some control sets could use a juggling but an aoe immob that does damage at t3 if that's its power available is a decent power.  

 

Some control sets getting some juggling is exactly what I'm looking for. I guess Doms do lack for AoE damage...if those immobs actually did decent damage I wouldn't be complaining, but the damage is generally not noticeable.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Wavicle

[Golden Azrael]

Wow.

 

Uber change.

 

*Approves.  

 

Removes the annoying 'gaps' where you can't but want to pick your next Primary or 2ndary power....

 

Azrael.

[webdeath]

On 10/4/2022 at 5:38 PM, The Curator said:

 

Arachnos Soldiers

• Crowd Control and Omega Maneuver moved from level 32 to level 26
  
  

Can Omega Maneuver get something more then just a Level adjustment?  Omega Maneuver feels so terrible in it's current state.  Either a Reduction to it's CD, an increase to it's Damage, Something with it's animation time, or something else would be helpful for people that might want to play with the Omega Maneuver.  

[ScarySai]

19 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Power pools aren't open until 4. So a Dom at level 1, in most cases, can take their Hold and their good attack like Bone Smasher, and then at level 2 they will have 3 powers to choose from: 2 immobs and the t1 secondary.

 

The aoe immob is never useless, though. The single target one is kinda 'eh' for a dominator with the aoe one in mind, I'll grant.

Edited October 8, 2022 by ScarySai

[stonehd]

Very excited about this potential change.  I love to solo, and I have many, many alts. Most only reach the early 30s, if that.  This change will allow me to experience many more upper-level powers on a variety of characters without having to power-level,.  It will also allow more variations between alts with the same power sets.   For someone who plays a whole lot of the early/mid-game, this is a big deal.

 

D

[LQT]

On 10/7/2022 at 11:39 PM, Wavicle said:

at level 2 they will have 3 powers to choose from: 2 immobs and the t1 secondary.

So we STILL have to take a worthless power that can just be taken off the bar and only used as a mule

At level 2 one of those immobs, the tier 3, is one of the best powers both Controllers and Doms can take for the ATO that spawns Energy Fonts/Fiery Orbs due to it being a spammable quick-recharge, ranged AoE. With large enough groups you can end up with 3 or more Font/Orbs on top of your existing pet lineup.

It is by no measure a worthless power and while three of the 1' sets do not have such a power, two of them [Grav and Mind] have their ST hold for the t3 power, while the third [Dark] has a cone that requires positioning for maximum effect.

Set wise that also means you can slot Gravitational Anchor w/ Hold proc for even more hard control or for some "cheaper" options 2 Bombardment IOs for the +5% global range increase, 5 WOs for added Immob procs, or whatever Frankenslot options someone may choose.

Levels 1-4 are already more or less:

 

• Level 1: ST hold and t1 from 2'.

• Level 2: rAoE immob

 

• Level 4: Powerpools [CJ/Hover for early Kismet or even actual Travel powers although the first 10 or so levels go fast enough these days putting off an actual travel power until 14 or so won't harm anyone since there are also the various free/p2w travel temps avaiable]

With the changes that order is likely going to remain the same except where the t1 2' will be swapped for the t2 due to the significant increase in damage at the cost requiring melee range for the t2 while the t1 is ranged.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Super happy to be able to use Foot Stomp when exemping down to 25 now. 

 

This makes me want to play my Tanker more, plain and simple.

 

Good change.

[thunderforce]

On 10/7/2022 at 3:19 PM, Brutal Justice said:

Edit:  In fact.  A lot of requests have been to just remove the +5 from exemping.   Which would leave us fairly close to our current teaming situation while still having these QoL changes for level appropriate players.  

Second the motion. The +5 level grace there is just bad, increasing the degree to which examplars overshadow on-level characters. It would always have been good to remove it, but if it was removed along with this change, we'd go from seeing T9s in level 27 content to T9s in level 26 content.

 

While we're at it, the -1 level when sidekicking is bad for much the same reasons, doubly so when SKing to 50+1 makes you 49. You've already got fewer powers, fewer slots, and less powerful enhancements; a level shift is just gratutious.

[ScarySai]

4 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Super happy to be able to use Foot Stomp when exemping down to 25 now. 

 

This makes me want to play my Tanker more, plain and simple.

 

Good change.

 

Gonna be fun being able to exemp a TW or SS tank and not be miserable till the mid 30s now.

[Xiddo]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:38 PM, The Curator said:

Level Availability Changes

 

Hero Epic ATs

• Nova moved from level 6 to level 4
• Inner Light and Sunless Mire moved from level 12 to level 10
• Incandescent Strike and Gravity Well moved from level 18 to level 16
• Glowing Touch and Gravitic Emanation moved from level 26 to level 20
• Solar Flare and Unchain Essence moved from level 26 to level 22
• Photon Seekers and Dark Extraction moved from level 32 to level 24
• Dawn Strike and Quasar moved from level 32 to level 26
• Shining Shield and Gravity Shield moved from level 2 to level 1 (character creation)
• Quantum Acceleration and Shadow Slip moved from level 24 to level 26
• Restore Essence and Stygian Return moved from level 25 to level 30
• Light Form and Eclipse moved from level 38 to level 32

 

had a little play on my PB to test this.

there’s a slight spelling error in the notes: restore and Stygian are 35 to 30. 
 

I built this toon to exemp and help out on low-mid range stuff. This is going to make like a bit more confusing! Definitely made my exemping easier. Might have a fighting chance now on the Freaklok hero arc on +4 now 😉

 

Could I suggest shuffling about a bit?

 

primary:

T9 > 28

26 leave as is (having my creepers on my plant dom, for example, is going to make a lot of mobs really easy)

 

secondary:

T9 > 32

T8 > 30

 

and keep the other changes? I do worry a bit about creep. Some sets are gonna be really OP so much earlier. 

[CommisarCommunism]

Here's my feelings about it after respeccing a few characters I transferred over to the test server and building some fresh ones as well.

 

1) This adds a lot of freedom to builds without putting any major changes on level 50 outcomes. The number of slots at low levels will act as a good check on overburdening a build with high tier powers. As a solo-heavy player, I'm really looking forward to playing tanks again, which normally are a chore to level up. My Defenders and Dominators will probably all be losing a T1 power hooray!

2) This new freedom also makes it easier to make terrible builds if you're a new or casual player. The prior structure encouraged a natural distribution of slots and end over the the rise from 1-40 with power pools stretching out the time before slots would start going to new higher tier powers. That's gone now. There are going to be some people who build terribly and conclude that "XYZ powerset sucks". Not a big deal, but a problem if you want to expand or keep your current player base.

3) This change makes the current exemplar system seem way OP. Time to take the +5 off. It'll be good for the high 40's TF's too, less incarnate powers, more basic high-level heroes.

4) This lays bare a totally separate problem: A lot of T1 powers are just garbage and that's no fun. Blasters get a special consolation prize for having mostly worthless T1 secondaries with Defiance, but the fact of the matter is that this suggests maybe rather than having a system that lets us consistently avoid a power selection, maybe we should revisit the T1 powers instead?

[Troo]

Tier 2 change is amazeballs. Thank you.

 

 

On 10/5/2022 at 1:32 PM, Number Six said:

does it improve the flow of power selection when leveling? Does it make the experience at low-medium levels better, worse?

 

In some places yes it's great to access more powers choices. Does feel even more like there aren't enough slots though.

 

On 10/5/2022 at 1:32 PM, Number Six said:

Does it make you completely overpowered at those levels or is it balanced out by lack of slots and fighting for power picks with pools and other options?

 

Those leveling up can actually feel weaker (see above comment) HOWEVER those playing down are that much stronger..

 

While I thought a little power creep for mid levels would be nice.. It's not game breakingly significant.

 

The power creep for folks who exemplar/malefactor is very large. (coming mostly from the Primary set changes but the Secondaries are also impactful)

 

 

Question:

Would it be possible to do the rest of the changes and see how it goes (all but the Primary Sets)? Would still be a big change and nice boost. Teaming sets like Tanks and Defenders might see a little more but will have to deal with endurance and recharge management earlier (lack of slots).

 

Primary Sets (non-Epic ATs)

• Tier 8 powers moved from level 26 to level 22
• Tier 9 powers moved from level 32 to level 26

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Troo

[Kent Tomorrow]

I leveled a Necro/FF MM on Redside. I didn't spend an awful lot of time in each level range, as I mostly wanted to see what the power progression was like, and test several of the changes from each of those sets.

 

If I hadn't known power level availability had changed, I wouldn't have had a clue that anything was different. Because I chose to skip a couple of FF powers that I didn't need yet, I still had plenty of room for travel powers and the Leadership pool, at levels where they still felt like good choices to make.

 

I definitely appreciated having the Lich earlier. If I were leveling appropriately, there's no question it would have been a quality of life improvement.

[WindDemon21]

On 10/7/2022 at 6:39 PM, Wavicle said:

 

You may have missed my point.

Power pools aren't open until 4. So a Dom at level 1, in most cases, can take their Hold and their good attack like Bone Smasher, and then at level 2 they will have 3 powers to choose from: 2 immobs and the t1 secondary.

So we STILL have to take a worthless power that can just be taken off the bar and only used as a mule. We just have a choice of which one.

Exactly, hence, another situation, where we should be able to pick the first 3 primaries of the tier 1 as well, and pool powers open at 2.

[WindDemon21]

4 hours ago, CommisarCommunism said:

4) This lays bare a totally separate problem: A lot of T1 powers are just garbage and that's no fun. Blasters get a special consolation prize for having mostly worthless T1 secondaries with Defiance, but the fact of the matter is that this suggests maybe rather than having a system that lets us consistently avoid a power selection, maybe we should revisit the T1 powers instead?

Generally, what this helps a lot, is trying to avoid being FORCED to take powers one does not want. In general that's still one of the biggest annoyances, obv especially with pool powers like fighting.

[WindDemon21]

6 hours ago, ScarySai said:

 

Gonna be fun being able to exemp a TW or SS tank and not be miserable till the mid 30s now.

And now that we can skip jab too I can FINALLY make my super strength tank! yay.

[Ravenbane]

On 10/4/2022 at 7:22 PM, LastHumanSoldier said:

Honestly, I get to rebuild all my dominators and get rid the first attack that I never slot.
Thank you so much.

 

Right? I can't WAIT to ditch Psionic Dart.

[thunderforce]

15 hours ago, CommisarCommunism said:

2) This new freedom also makes it easier to make terrible builds if you're a new or casual player.

That's a nontrivial downside - we still have a regular churn of new players - and perhaps something to add to the way this change discourages sampling the pool powers.

[laudwic]

On 10/7/2022 at 6:24 PM, Mezmera said:

 

Dom's tier 2 assaults are usually some of the better powers in their sets.  They're melee attacks with high dpa to coax you into thinking of them as a hybrid assault approach.  

 

Bone Smasher available right out of the gate will be awesome!  Dark's t2 is its best dpa power.  Lots of upside on this for doms being able to skip a quickly obsolete power for a very strong one.

 

This is where I have some concern with this change for newer players and Dominators sum up this change nicely.  Dom tier 1 assaults are all ranged minor to moderate fast recharging ranged attacks.  At low levels these attacks are used frequently and then forgotten at higher levels as recharge makes other attacks available faster.  The Tier 2 Assaults are all melee attacks, ones that are probably going to be in rotation throughout the game, but have slower recharge than the Tier 1 powers.  So, this change will actually allow players to dump a power they are not using at mid to high levels for something they will.

 

The only concern I have is for new players.  Experienced players will take an attack from the P2W vendor to make up losing a quick recharge power at early levels.  Inexperienced players are going to experience a gap in their attacks and have a good amount of wait time for powers to recharge where they are not attacking which may be frustrating.  (yes, I played Outbreak on the test server and waiting for Bone Smasher to recharge was annoying.

 

Personally, I like the changes, if I could do everything as I wanted, the ability to choose between Tier 1 and 2 as a 'first' power for a Secondary power set should be unlocked with the first respec.  That way you have the freedom to dump a power you don't like, but it also respects the design choice of the first power in a Secondary being designed to be an early game mainstay.

 

 

 

[Parabola]

4 minutes ago, laudwic said:

The only concern I have is for new players.  Experienced players will take an attack from the P2W vendor to make up losing a quick recharge power at early levels.  Inexperienced players are going to experience a gap in their attacks and have a good amount of wait time for powers to recharge where they are not attacking which may be frustrating.  (yes, I played Outbreak on the test server and waiting for Bone Smasher to recharge was annoying.

But surely the inexperienced player is going to think 'waiting for my one attack to recharge is boring and there's another attack right there that I skipped so I'll take that next level'? Making terrible build decisions like not taking enough attacks and then getting bored with the game is just as much of a risk now I think.

[CommisarCommunism]

Another welcome change I'm noticing as I look at respeccing old 50's: This opens up a lot of creative slotting for Epic powers! There have been so many times I've wanted to 6 slot 3+ epic powers and that's now a real possibility in certain builds.

[ScarySai]

On 10/9/2022 at 5:12 PM, WindDemon21 said:

And now that we can skip jab too I can FINALLY make my super strength tank! yay.

Smite over shadow punch and bone smasher over barrage is pretty good for those respective sets too.

 

Tanks not being stuck with awful t1s on top of everything else, good stuff.

[summers]

I just wanted to say that these are some really exciting changes - I love that powersets get 'fun' earlier, and the tweaks to the underperforming sets are incredibly welcome!

 

Thank you so much for all your volunteered time you put into improving the game we all love ❤️

Edited October 12, 2022 by summers