Buff Controllers and Domintors

[KingCeddd03]

I feel Controllers and Dominators need a buff so they can stand on their own it kinda sucks to have a melee there because they can't stand the pain. it would be cool if they got a buff in the Resistance and defense to be able to do so or a more powerful control. if a blast can't stand on their own why can't a controller or dom?

[Six-Six]

My trollers and doms seem to be doing fine, and I play them like blappers right in the thick of things. 

[biostem]

33 minutes ago, KingCeddd03 said:

I feel Controllers and Dominators need a buff so they can stand on their own it kinda sucks to have a melee there because they can't stand the pain. it would be cool if they got a buff in the Resistance and defense to be able to do so or a more powerful control. if a blast can't stand on their own why can't a controller or dom?

Can you be a little more specific, here?  Certain controller and dominators, depending upon powersets, pools, incarnates, IOs, and the player behind them, can hold their own with the best of them.  I think part of the issue is what your expectations are and how you are going about employing the tools they have at their disposal...

[Psyonico]

6 hours ago, KingCeddd03 said:

 if a blast can't stand on their own why can't a controller or dom?

 

I'm assuming you meant blaster and can, in which case... They really can't stand on their own without a heavily IO'd build, which you can also do with Controllers and Dominators

[Uun]

There are more than a few players that solo task forces at max difficulty on their dominators. There may be specific primaries that are better suited to this, but the AT as a whole doesn't need a buff. I see fewer controllers soloing task forces, but resistance/defense isn't the reason. They are plenty tough and also not in need of an AT wide buff.

[KingCeddd03]

9 hours ago, Uun said:

There are more than a few players that solo task forces at max difficulty on their dominators. There may be specific primaries that are better suited to this, but the AT as a whole doesn't need a buff. I see fewer controllers soloing task forces, but resistance/defense isn't the reason. They are plenty tough and also not in need of an AT wide buff.

What powersets are able to do this?

[Riverdusk]

46 minutes ago, KingCeddd03 said:

What powersets are able to do this?

 

Look for posts from @voltak in the dom forum.  He's posted several.  Dark/Dark I think is the one he started with. I'd say he's also an above average player in skill so that's to be kept in mind, but it is definitely doable.  Honestly I'd disagree with @Uun a bit in that I think it is actually a bit easier to do on a controller than on a dom.  Might just be my own bias in how I prefer the AT overall though. 

 

Illusion controllers were famous for standing on their own and soloing pretty much everything since early on in the game's history, illusion/rad most famously.  Not that they were the fastest at everything, but that they could do it.  Illusion/dark was the first one I think that I bothered trying to solo a giant monster on back during live game and did so without much issue.

 

Will be interesting to see what illusion doms can handle.

[Uun]

32 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Honestly I'd disagree with @Uun a bit in that I think it is actually a bit easier to do on a controller than on a dom.

It's certainly easier to solo AVs on a controller (I do it on my Illusion/Poison), but for some reason I just don't see controllers talking about soloing TFs.

 

1 hour ago, KingCeddd03 said:

What powersets are able to do this?

In addition to Dark/Dark, I know people that have done it on Mind/Psi and Mind/Energy(?). 

[Lazarillo]

I dunno that Dominators a buff per se, but the general way the AT is set up around feast or famine depending on if you build for massive Recharge (and thus, Permadom) or not, and how, relatedly, they're the only AT where alignment actually makes a pretty big difference, means I feel like, as a whole, they deserve...looking at.  But a balance pass for their inherent, as it were, needn't straight up be a buff or nerf in purely objective terms.

 

'trollers seem fine, to me.  I see a fair number of people looking down on them, but they're always welcome on my teams; they're excellent support when played even half-decently.

[biostem]

I think dominators epitomize the idea of being punished for using your powers carelessly - you need to control groups of enemies decisively, and defeat them quickly, or you'll suffer the consequences spectacularly.  I think the problem a lot of people run into is not leveraging domination to its fullest, and ignoring the end refill and status protection it grants, beyond just doubling the magnitude of your mez effects, thus people may trigger it, (if not perma-dom), when their end bar is full or when fighting enemies that don't use mezzes.  This may be an unpopular opinion, but I kind of think doms and controllers should have their inherents switched - the extra damage vs mezzed enemies just seems more fitting for a dom, and the extra mez, status protection, and end refill seems like it'd be more suited to a controller...

[Doomguide2005]

21 hours ago, KingCeddd03 said:

What powersets are able to do this?

Pretty much all or any sets/ATs or close to it.  How fast, how defeat free, under what conditions (no inspires, foes buffed etc.), what notoriety, at what level and what content all make the exact answer vary (a lot potentially) but it's far more common to be yes they can than no they can't especially once you start dealing with incarnate post 50 builds.

 

Edit: 

@Riverduskyes among other things @Voltak solo'd a Master of Lord Recluse SF with a Dark/Dark/Soul Dominator.  

He leverages, iirc, Possess (confuse).  A lvl 54 Av is well, even level, when you make it your pet vs other Lvl 54 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Doomguide2005

[SeraphimKensai]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:12 PM, KingCeddd03 said:

What powersets are able to do this?

For Dominators I've done various +4 solo tfs on a dark/thorns, a mind/martial, an ice/ice, a fire/energy, and most recently with a symphony/dark.

 

Controllers can be built to do similar feats, of note I use a plant/trick arrow, dark/rad, illusion/dark, and elec/cold.

 

If you want to solo task forces you need to do a few things:

1. Understand the content your facing, and make a build to counter that. Don't be discouraged if it takes a few attempts, use Brainstorm to practice if necessary.
2. Really know your character, and powers. You can't just go in blind and start clicking powers, you'll want to know how your powers work, what types of mobs they are strong against and weak against.

As some other forums regulars will tell you, it's not always about the car, but more so who's driving it that matters.

 

That said the only change I thing controllers and dominators could use is I still think a base recharge of 240 seconds on AoE holds is ridiculous when there's several blaster secondaries that have AoE holds with a mag 3 effect on a 90 second base recharge. That's my hill  to die on with the two AT's.

[Zepp]

There are several powers in control and buff/debuff sets that need their recharge times reduced. Furthermore, there are a couple sets that could use balance passes. Finally, endgame utility wherein mob cc resists in late game are sometimes impossible to bypass (taking away the core mitigation of the classes) may need to be looked at for some endgame mobs.

 

That being said, I main a troller and soloing TFs is generally not an issue (although there are some that seem specifically designed to be annoying for trollers/doms). Also, I think that Trollers and Fenders are the most common GM-killer AT builds, so there's that. These classes use CC as mitigation rather than Defense/Resistance. In situations where they don't have specific mechanics to prevent CC there is zero difficulty in sustain.

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Zepp said:

There are several powers in control and buff/debuff sets that need their recharge times reduced. Furthermore, there are a couple sets that could use balance passes. Finally, endgame utility wherein mob cc resists in late game are sometimes impossible to bypass (taking away the core mitigation of the classes) may need to be looked at for some endgame mobs.

 

That being said, I main a troller and soloing TFs is generally not an issue (although there are some that seem specifically designed to be annoying for trollers/doms). Also, I think that Trollers and Fenders are the most common GM-killer AT builds, so there's that. These classes use CC as mitigation rather than Defense/Resistance. In situations where they don't have specific mechanics to prevent CC there is zero difficulty in sustain.

I would say that controllers and dominators have the widest disparity between your typical build and those at the highest end of performance.  Not to belittle other ATs, but nearly anyone can pick one of them up and "get by", (of course specific exceptions do exist)...

[Zepp]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

I would say that controllers and dominators have the widest disparity between your typical build and those at the highest end of performance.  Not to belittle other ATs, but nearly anyone can pick one of them up and "get by", (of course specific exceptions do exist)...

I'd say they are behind Kheldians, but that is a a reasonable point. However, I don't think it is only the build, but how you play it (again Kheldians and CC ATs have the higher disparity).

 

That being said, recharge for several powers (AoE Holds are the most obvious ones) could still use a reduction.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Zepp

[Voltak]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:47 PM, Uun said:

It's certainly easier to solo AVs on a controller (I do it on my Illusion/Poison), but for some reason I just don't see controllers talking about soloing TFs.

 

In addition to Dark/Dark, I know people that have done it on Mind/Psi and Mind/Energy(?). 

Can't make an absolute statement like that. 

Also what is meant by easier?

It also depends on the AV you are talking about and under what circumstances. 

But a blanket statement that Controllers can solo AVs at lvl 54 than Dominators can, no way. 

Also...

I am curious  you know people who have solo'd what with a Mind/Psi and Mind/Energy ?

Everything said above is said in good faith, nothing negative. 

[Uun]

59 minutes ago, Voltak said:

Can't make an absolute statement like that. 

Also what is meant by easier?

It also depends on the AV you are talking about and under what circumstances. 

But a blanket statement that Controllers can solo AVs at lvl 54 than Dominators can, no way. 

I was thinking of it in terms of the debuffs controllers have in their secondaries. Perhaps I should have said that it takes less skill to do it on a controller.

 

1 hour ago, Voltak said:

I am curious  you know people who have solo'd what with a Mind/Psi and Mind/Energy ?

On Torchbearer there's a Mind/Psi dominator named Number Six (not the dev) that's soloed just about every TF in the game and has vet level 6,000+ (last time I teamed with them). I don't think they're active on the forums. The Mind/Energy I was thinking of was Mezmera, but I don't know what they've soloed.

[Voltak]

16 minutes ago, Uun said:

I was thinking of it in terms of the debuffs controllers have in their secondaries. Perhaps I should have said that it takes less skill to do it on a controller.

 

On Torchbearer there's a Mind/Psi dominator named Number Six (not the dev) that's soloed just about every TF in the game and has vet level 6,000+ (last time I teamed with them). I don't think they're active on the forums. The Mind/Energy I was thinking of was Mezmera, but I don't know what they've soloed.

But there is a difference here. 

54 x8 , no insps , no deaths, no temps, no p2ws, that's what I am interested in.  

Agreed on the possibility of controllers needing less skill to kill lvl 54 AVs solo 

[Frosticus]

This is a strange conversation. I like both AT's a lot, but one is the strongest AV/GM killer in the game and is agnostic about what enemy it faces and the other is a dominator with nothing  more suited to the task than a scrapper.

 

Some doms can rip through TF's pretty nicely though.

 

For example I recently saw a vid of a dominator fighting lvl 53 sinclair. It took like 20 mins with lore pets.

Comparatively my ill/cold/stone can drop a lvl 53 sinclair in about 3.5mins w/o lore. 

(I can't recall how long the 54+3 sinclair  in my sig took, but it wasn't more than a few cycles of hybrid).

 

I think many doms are better at the x8 part than controllers, but vs AVs/GMs it isn't in the same realm.

[MistressOhm]

Dominators are already buffed.   As they attack they charge the Domination meter, and when it's full, they have a LONG period of "I Win!" where their status effect mags are higher, their damage buffed, and they get a free End refill when triggering it.

 

Controllers have an at-random boost proc to their status effects, increasing duration.  Mobs under any Controller status effects are also more easily hit and for greater damage.   

 

A Controller is more 'work' to solo because nearly everything they have is either control or support related, NOT direct damage, but at the same time, they've both control and debuff abilities to be able to lock down spawns and 'tank' them.  A Dominator lacks the debuff secondary, and instead has an Assault secondary that lets them pound the 'dominated' spawn into paste.  So, less tanky, more blasty.

 

 

[Uun]

12 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

Controllers have an at-random boost proc to their status effects, increasing duration. 

There's no increase in duration. It's a 20% chance for a 1.0 increase in magnitude. The duration of the increased magnitude is shorter than the primary effect. 

[biostem]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:35 PM, MistressOhm said:

Dominators are already buffed.   As they attack they charge the Domination meter, and when it's full, they have a LONG period of "I Win!" where their status effect mags are higher, their damage buffed, and they get a free End refill when triggering it.

The damage buff was moved out of domination mode, and their power damage was adjusted, (see here).