Level 50 Recycle Option

[battlewraith]

The was another thread detailing this idea, but it was removed by the poster for some reason. It was a good proposal, so I'll restate it in terms of my own playing habits.

 

I'm a veteran of this game since launch. I have maybe 5 pages of 50s spread across two accounts, which isn't even a lot by the standards of this playerbase.  I have no interest in the pre-50 content. When I make a new character, I pl it to 50, enhance it, and then start running TFs, incarnate missions, etc. while I test the build and see if there's anything I want to change and/or improve. If I like the character, I'll log on and play it for a while or maybe use it for certain content. Sometimes a character ends up not clicking with me for some reason and I'll just shelve it.

 

The proposal is to give players an option to recycle an extant 50 and do a full respec of the character that includes not only the primary and secondary power selections, but the AT as well. Basically you are given a new character that can be leveled straight to 50. You would lose whatever other types of progress had been made on the character--so it would have no progress on incarnates, no badges or accolades, etc. The would also be the risk of potentially losing the name and supergroup affiliations and whatnot would need to be redone.

 

I think the most straightforward way to do this is would be a clickable option on the character login screen near the rename and transfer options. If there was some concern about this ability causing some unforeseen problem, there could be a timer on the option (1x/week, 2x/month, etc.). The icon would be lit when a redo was actually available.

 

A lot of people prefer to play at 50. A lot of people skip the early grind through pling. This would enable that sort of player to skip sitting in a farm for hours and getting right to the content that they want to do. It isn't free: you are trading work you already did on another character for the redo. A brand new player won't have access to this option.

[Ghost]

I am against an insta 50 token/option

But this I would like.   

[Major_Decoy]

Honestly, I think that under the current limitations of how character creation works, I don't think that a full respec is possible. It seems like origin, archetype, and powersets are the very first things that define a character. I don't think that the limitation of "you can't fully respec a character" stems from a ideological convention, that you need to play a character to fifty, but from a "I don't even know how you'd start to allow a character to change these things"

[Six-Six]

I fail to see the long term benefit of this. I agree that there are people who (unlike me) skip through the grind and power level a spanking new toon to 50, kit it out, and take it for a run. According to you, you yourself do this on a regular basis. Power levelling takes a few hours at the most, and compared to an actual grind that sometimes takes me weeks or even months to get a toon to 50, that is a considerable speed.

So if you rolled a toon with X AT and Y+Z primary and secondary, pl-ed it to 50, slapped on all the bells and whistles, took it out for a spin, and then decided that Q AT might work better for Y+Z primary, or a different power set combination, or a totally new configuration of AT + power combos might be in order... then what's stopping you from doing it your tried and tested way? It will only take you a few hours. You can strip your "old" toon of the IOs to be recycled on the new(er) ones. And life goes on.

But that eats a FEW hours that you don't have. Again, the few hours represent an enormous leap compared to the regular grind. And if you don't like the grind, then I'm sorry to say that this kind of game is not for you. This is after all a hack-n-slash dungeon crawler at heart.

Yes, there is instant gratification that that toon you wanted, you get it now will prove more harmful in the long run. Insta-toons become something you pick off a shelf rather than earn. the time you don't spend with a toon is a bond you fail to create with your creation. The insta-toons mean less to you, and as such can and will be easily discarded for the next yearning.
 

[kelika2]

6 minutes ago, Six-Six said:

I fail to see the long term benefit of this.

Firefarming is under attack every patch and rerolling alts is becoming more and more of a hassle.  With so many branching paths of archetype, primary/secondary and thats pretty much it, being able to reroll like this is something we might need.

Kinda like going Savage Melee thinking fuckyeah time to rip and tear time to be DOOMGUY but DOOG but then realizing claws does what you do but better in every aspect and dont want to walk uphill both ways in the snow to reroll only to be left with a set that feels like a kitten trying to open a plastic feeding container

then kinetic melee vs energy melee

then fire blast vs pistols

then

and so on

[Six-Six]

If you rolled a Sav Melee and felt Doog the Doomguy would rather use weapons than break a nail, then drop him and roll a claws toon. While you're at it, roll a kin and energy melee, fire blast AND pistols. Roll any AT and Power you want.

you're not walking uphill in the snow. You're not walking at all. you're sitting by the door while the other guy pounds through mobs so you can get free XP. And in a few hours of not walking uphill in the snow, you have your spanking new 50 toon ready to open all makes of feeding containers.

It only takes a few hours of sitting by the door coughing up (optional) senseless banter... But this isn't about power-leveller vs grinder ideology. I accept and respect that some people like what they like and not like what I like. This isn't about that.

I used to work in advertising. We were the people who try to convince you to pick Brand X over (the leading) Brand Y. One way to do that is to have you try Brand X. Getting you to try Brand X is easy. We can use any gimmick (lie, cheat, and steal are givens), even give away stuff at a net loss just to get you to try Brand X. But out of 1000 trials, only about 10 will switch. There's a market term for it, but it's irrelevant and simply jargon-dropping. Notwithstanding, the trick to getting more than three quarters of the trials to switch to Brand X is to have them use Brand X for two weeks. Again, there is a scientific term for it about pathology, psychology, and physiology, but not important rn. If you use a product for 2 weeks straight, you will switch 98% of the time. Otherwise, you'll just be trying Brand X and then wham bam thank you ma'am and see ya.

TL;DR It takes time for your brain and body to build affinity for something. Without that affinity, that something will just as easily be discarded as it was procured. 

That's why I fail to see the long term benefit of this. What may seem attractive NOW for 50, 500, 5,000 players MAY (yes, I could also be wrong) not be in the best interest of the game in the years to come.

 

[kelika2]

26 minutes ago, Six-Six said:

vurr

just say disagree or agree or do what everyone else does and use an emotional icon.  stop writing essays

[Six-Six]

 

18 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

I've tried to read what you put time, effort and thinking in what you wrote and for the life of me, I don't understand it. Hence, I can't cough up a rebuttal or anything posing as an argument. So instead I'll take my perceived machismo and make myself look cool by mocking your recent post in words I can relate to.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. 

[Nurvus]

It probably wouldn't kill the game. Level boosts are extremely common in modern MMOs and they work out alright (as in they haven't killed those games 🙃). You do get people that have no idea what they're doing, but CoH is extremely simple mechanically. Like it's not really a thing here to care about someone's DPS rotation, healing ability, tank cooldown usage, etc. I can't say I've seen someone care about mechanical performance specifically. It's mostly all build/powers/pre-planning/mission knowledge. Instant 50s would probably be very inconspicuous in CoH. They'd be indistinguishable from an AE bébé at worst.

 

I don't know if it's a good thing to add, but it doesn't feel too game-breaking at first glance, especially if there's a cooldown. Does Homecoming need to worry about player retention/people exhausting content and getting bored as a non-profit game? 

 

 

[Greycat]

See, I'm pretty completely on the other side.

Previously it was listed as having an insta-50 token at ... once a month, or some cost. If the goal is (at least in part) to cut down on reasons to get farmed up, "recycling" a 50 isn't it. My characters are that - characters. Many are remakes from live, so I've already played them and am just recreating them here.

"Recycling" a 50 to get another would just lead to farming up some spares to have sit around... though, at that point, might as well just farm the character itself up.

[battlewraith]

4 hours ago, Six-Six said:

So if you rolled a toon with X AT and Y+Z primary and secondary, pl-ed it to 50, slapped on all the bells and whistles, took it out for a spin, and then decided that Q AT might work better for Y+Z primary, or a different power set combination, or a totally new configuration of AT + power combos might be in order... then what's stopping you from doing it your tried and tested way? It will only take you a few hours. You can strip your "old" toon of the IOs to be recycled on the new(er) ones. And life goes on.

 

Obviously, nothing is stopping me from doing it the conventional way. But what value, does that hassle bring to either the game or my experience playing it? I think with the new changes to the 2xp token it takes my derpy farmer around 4 hours to get a character to 50. That is 4 hours that I'm not joining teams to do other content. Four hours of doing a repetitive activity that people complain about contributing to inflation. And 4 hours that I have to struggle to justify internally in the face of all the other more productive things I should be doing. If I look at the recent history of characters I've made, it's bursts of grinding typically around 3 new characters with maybe 2 months of inactivity inbetween. For me, this change would result in more actual playing and less mundane prep work.

 

Of course this is one of those completely voluntary options and if you choose to level the old fashioned way, more power to you. If other people choose power leveling or this route, life will indeed go on.

 

5 hours ago, Six-Six said:

But that eats a FEW hours that you don't have. Again, the few hours represent an enormous leap compared to the regular grind. And if you don't like the grind, then I'm sorry to say that this kind of game is not for you. This is after all a hack-n-slash dungeon crawler at heart.

 

This is a roughly 20 year old game running on a private server that has gone through numerous waves of development. The best way to mismanage it is to not heed what players want, or how they play in 2022, and instead appeal to some stale genre convention that is a reduction of what this game could be to different people. And players on this forum really need to stop saying things like "this kind of game is not for you." You don't know what kind of game is for me and it's not your call regardless. And those types of statements are an extremely bad look for this community.

 

5 hours ago, Six-Six said:

Yes, there is instant gratification that that toon you wanted, you get it now will prove more harmful in the long run. Insta-toons become something you pick off a shelf rather than earn.

 

5 hours ago, Six-Six said:

TL;DR It takes time for your brain and body to build affinity for something. Without that affinity, that something will just as easily be discarded as it was procured. 

 

I quoted these together because they reflect a complete divorce from the reality that this proposal is aimed at addressing.

 

This is an OLD FUCKING GAME. Most people replying to these threads have been playing it for over a decade at least. How much time does your brain and body need to build an affinity for it? And you really need to run the same easy content again and again ad infinitum to earn something? I hate to break it to you, but you leveling ala 2004 doesn't mean you earned anything special. It just means you apparently enjoy doing that activity. Someone RPing all day, pvping, playing with the costume designer, making a base, etc. have all been earning as long as they take part and enjoy what they're doing.

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, Six-Six said:

TL;DR It takes time for your brain and body to build affinity for something. Without that affinity, that something will just as easily be discarded as it was procured. 

That's why I fail to see the long term benefit of this. What may seem attractive NOW for 50, 500, 5,000 players MAY (yes, I could also be wrong) not be in the best interest of the game in the years to come.

 

Well then Mistuh advertising exec you is missing da point.

 

If you do not like the new 50....reroll it the next time a token is available. 

 

Hey!  In TWO WEEKS!  Bazinga!

 

[Troo]

2 hours ago, battlewraith said:

it takes my derpy farmer around 4 hours to get a character to 50.

 

Just out of curiosity, is the time to level up (pick powers & slots), acquire enhancements and slot enhancements included here?

[Tachstar]

When one of my guys makes it to 50, I consider him or her or it a keeper. Or else they'd never have made it to 50. However! I wouldn't mind being able to 'bank' the levels on a character that just isn't working for me and apply them to a new character. Like, say, if I played a (hypothetical) Onion Armor/Trout Slap tanker up to level 20 and came to the conclusion that this was absolutely the worst combo of powers and AT ever, it would be cool if I could apply those 'been there/done that' levels to a new Tequila Popper Blast/Banana Pudding Manipulation blaster. I don't mean playing 10 new guys to level 5 and then deleting them and applying 50 levels to one new character, I mean on a one to one basis. Delete Super Duper Puper Man and apply his 'banked' levels to Hyper Diaper Wiper Man. Maybe banking the earned XP would work better... and maybe only on a character marked as a 'trial run' character. Or something.

 

I dunno. As an altoholic among altoholics, I've played through those early levels a bunch of times...

[Rudra]

8 hours ago, kelika2 said:

just say disagree or agree or do what everyone else does and use an emotional icon.  stop writing essays

The point of giving feedback is to... uhm... give feedback.... Actually explaining why you support or oppose a suggestion is encouraged.

 

1 hour ago, Tachstar said:

Like, say, if I played a (hypothetical) Onion Armor/Trout Slap tanker up to level 20

And now I'm wondering how fun or visually interesting Onion Armor and Trout Slap are.... ... ... ... Okay... we at least need a Trout Slap power set. Can have rolling pins and frying pans for alternate weapons.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to change "foam bats" to "rolling pins".

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

we at least need a Trout Slap power set.

Fish Slap. The tier 1 is a herring slap, there's a two-handed cone dual herring slap, trout slap for more damage, a PBAoE spin cod slap, and a T9 where you whip out a full-grown tuna and deliver an overwhelming slap that has a chance to be a cone.

[Rudra]

41 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Fish Slap. The tier 1 is a herring slap, there's a two-handed cone dual herring slap, trout slap for more damage, a PBAoE spin cod slap, and a T9 where you whip out a full-grown tuna and deliver an overwhelming slap that has a chance to be a cone.

The ranged attack can be a mackerel spitting out high velocity herrings!

[battlewraith]

5 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Just out of curiosity, is the time to level up (pick powers & slots), acquire enhancements and slot enhancements included here?

No, that's just the farming and periodically selling stuff at the AE vendor and buying inspirations. This is also spread over multiple sessions, I don't level something 1-50 in one sitting.