End PL allow characters to begin at 50

[Rudra]

8 hours ago, Hopestar said:

AE Farming is essentially dead being 25% as effective before, but even having been nerfed 12 feet underground, it's still being used.

 

8 hours ago, Astralock said:

Mostly by those who don’t know of or don’t remember the old pre-AE farms.

 

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Just gotta update the mobs' powers so they give 100% XP, (or as near as you can get), and you should be good to go...

Okay, I'm at a loss. What is going on here? Did AE farming get ganked? Did it not get ganked? Can the people who want instant 50s still crank out 50s at plaid speed?

[Astralock]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

 

Okay, I'm at a loss. What is going on here? Did AE farming get ganked? Did it not get ganked? Can the people who want instant 50s still crank out 50s at plaid speed?

AE AFK farming rightly got ganked.  Power leveling in AE has been hobbled.  Active AE farming for INF, drops, and/or veteran levels is fine.  It’s just that for power leveling specifically, there are now better (and older), options.

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Okay, I'm at a loss. What is going on here? Did AE farming get ganked? Did it not get ganked? Can the people who want instant 50s still crank out 50s at plaid speed?

The amount of powers needed for a custom AE enemy to give full XP has been adjusted, so they need to be given more powers now...

[Rudra]

Thanks, both of you.

[Troo]

6 hours ago, TheZag said:

nerf regen

 

fudge..

well played.

[Cancrusher]

I like the suggestion and fully support it.  Not gonna die or anything, if it doesn't get implemented.  I'll still play and enjoy the game, just as I do now.

 

To those of you mentioning Brainstorm,  I do use it to play test different AT/power sets and I do appreciate that we have it.  The reason I don't play on Brainstorm is because I don't want my characters and bases to get wiped during a new rules update.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Cancrusher

[UltraAlt]

11 hours ago, Astralock said:

Mostly by those who don’t know of or don’t remember the old pre-AE farms.

 

A bunch of those were given timers so the couldn't be farmed any more.

Farming is also what prompted the tanker agro cap. 

 

7 hours ago, Zeraphia said:

but at the same time...

 

Being able to get insta 50's also means that you don't have to log in to keep a name.

I can't remember if Temporal Warriors are in the same name pool as normal characters, but, yeah, that's another way of locking in character names potentially never requiring another login.

 

Why punish those that want to alt a lot by making them log-in all their characters once a year (actually no big deal for me and I have over 100.... but still, even so ...) if those that don't play any more than to make an insta-50 don't have to ever log into their character ever again to keep their name?

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Why punish those that want to alt a lot by making them log-in all their characters once a year

Once a year? I have characters locked at level 4. That's a once a month bit. At least it isn't once a week though....

[The Chairman]

Temporal Warriors (PvP Insta-50s) count as level 1 for name retention purposes.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Once a year? I have characters locked at level 4. That's a once a month bit. At least it isn't once a week though....

 

I usually get through those first 5 levels pretty quickly.

Is there some theme or something that is getting you to lock the xp on them at level 4?

[Rudra]

Don't think it counts as a theme or anything. They're my base builder characters. At level 4 I can pick up Hover which lets me maneuver around a base and place/orient objects whereever needed. So no need to level them any higher.

 

Edit: And since I only use those characters for building bases, either my own or someone else's if they ask for help, they're pretty well stuck at level 4.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Rudra

[Zect]

I'm not opposed to this... in principle.

 

Of course, the ideal and vastly preferable situation would be a balanced and fun leveling experience, that does not favor any specific group of players. There is strong reason not to skip the leveling and gearing process entirely: the experience of leveling is a kind of delayed gratification, and scientific research shows that delayed gratification and anticipation generally enhance the pleasure of a reward (what people usually call a "sense of achievement", although leveling isn't really an achievement in the usual sense). No surprise that most people do not regularly play on Brainstorm, even though you can already give yourself whatever stuff you like there. It's less fun.

 

But if this situation is too difficult to achieve, or if there's no will to implement it, then we may as well do away with the whole thing together. Allowing some players to effectively level much faster than others creates an imbalance between different kinds of playstyles and content that detracts from the enjoyment of all. An option to "start character at X level" would equalize the disparity that currently exists between different kinds of playstyles, and ensure everyone gets to enjoy the game equally.

 

Only Homecoming team can decide whether they want to keep striving for a balanced game environment - including reward balance - or abandon this challenge entirely. Recent changes suggest they may be attempting the former, so I'm not ready to throw my weight behind this suggestion yet. After all, I don't want the rest of the servers to be as populated or active as Brainstorm.

[Ruin Mage]

I remain opposed to this as I have in other threads. It's just not an idea I can get behind.

One reason? The name policy. Level 50s are immune, and if a "free level 50" thing was allowed? Nah.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Greycat]

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

Don't think it counts as a theme or anything. They're my base builder characters. At level 4 I can pick up Hover which lets me maneuver around a base and place/orient objects whereever needed. So no need to level them any higher.

 

Edit: And since I only use those characters for building bases, either my own or someone else's if they ask for help, they're pretty well stuck at level 4.

 

Use a Peacebringer as your base builder and you don't even have to get to 4... inherent flight at 1.

[Seed22]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:14 PM, battlewraith said:

 

This is pretty evidently not true. A lot, if not the majority of players fast track their way to 50, whether it be through farming or joining higher level teams which tear through radio missions--typically with an incarnated leader who clears the majority of the mobs. Then at 50, they accolade and enhance their characters and exemp down to play the stuff they passed over or just do lvl 50 content.

 

Since MMs got some buffs with this patch, I decided to level one up just by soloing regular content. You know what that experience has to offer? Almost exactly the same thing it had to offer back when the content was introduced with some qol improvements and the buffs they gave the AT. Especially playing with SOs, like I am, it's a repetitive grind where you kill all the mobs, run around clicking glowies, and rest a lot inbetween fights. There is nothing special about this experience over planning a build, enhancing it, and then going through the same basic content with something that is more enjoyable and dynamic to use.

 

Telling people to go to beta server is like telling them to go to another game. They aren't just here for the mechanics, they enjoy being around an actual population and whatever friends they've made.

Yeah this pretty much captures me to a T.

 

And for those saying go to the beta server, I feel it's equally as bad as me telling them learn to use IO's in response to feeling left out on teams. Sure, I could be right in some technical sense or another, but it's rude and obviously not a good response to the problem.

[SeraphimKensai]

I've stated my position to this in similar recent topics, but as I was reading the thread and idea occurred to me...

 

What if the game was redesigned to remove all leveling? You progress through story arcs starting at small time to saving the universe, but never out level them. You don't have to worry about getting a lvl 50 on a tot league as there's no experience points in the game. You get all your powers and slots available at character creation. You can take a nuke for your first power, or your last it's up to you and how you envision your character.

 

Mobs difficulty is revamped to use the old difficulty names, as +1, +4, etc doesn't make sense seeing as there's no levels. You can do an invincible ITF 3 minutes after making your character (and hopefully slotting it), or you can stand around Pocket D and get catfished, or something else entirely.

 

Who needs levels and experience when the world is at your fingertips?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[El D]

On 10/20/2022 at 10:14 PM, battlewraith said:

 

This is pretty evidently not true. A lot, if not the majority of players fast track their way to 50, whether it be through farming or joining higher level teams which tear through radio missions--typically with an incarnated leader who clears the majority of the mobs. Then at 50, they accolade and enhance their characters and exemp down to play the stuff they passed over or just do lvl 50 content.

 

Since MMs got some buffs with this patch, I decided to level one up just by soloing regular content. You know what that experience has to offer? Almost exactly the same thing it had to offer back when the content was introduced with some qol improvements and the buffs they gave the AT. Especially playing with SOs, like I am, it's a repetitive grind where you kill all the mobs, run around clicking glowies, and rest a lot inbetween fights. There is nothing special about this experience over planning a build, enhancing it, and then going through the same basic content with something that is more enjoyable and dynamic to use.

 

Telling people to go to beta server is like telling them to go to another game. They aren't just here for the mechanics, they enjoy being around an actual population and whatever friends they've made.

 

Fast tracking to 50 still requires a minimum level of actual gameplay, even if it can be done in hours under the right circumstances. Clicking an instant-50 button does not. Given their design decisions, the HC devs definitely seem focused on streamlining gameplay (especially at the early levels) but not about removing it entirely. PvP is the exception, again, because it locks players solely to PvP content - they can't go back and exemplar to run PvE stuff, do any seasonal events, or go on TFs or do story arcs. PvP 50s are effectively hard-locked into a mini-game, and cannot do anything outside of 'fight other players and hang out in bases and in Pocket D.' To institute instant PvE 50s would require some similar level of restriction such as locking them to content only accessible at level 50, like iTrials and Dark Astoria, which would render them mostly pointless because then they couldn't actually play most of the game.

 

That some or even most players fast-forward through CoH's content isn't an excuse to offer a method to skip it entirely, because that removes what little enforcement remains for encouraging actual long-term interaction. Beyond that, players can already cherry-pick which PvE content, task forces, badges, and other things they want to run and do so while getting to 50 and then once again after they get there. As for the gameplay experience, a player won't suddenly find it 'more engaging' by running things on an instant-50 because it's the exact same content that they found unmotivating in the first place. Being bored while running through a Synapse TF is just as boring at level 20 as it is on an exemplared level 50. It is, as you said, the community and the people on the team that make things fun. Which is built through the connections that players make and maintain... by actively playing and leveling up their characters alongside other players.

 

Lets say that did get implemented, though. Full-on instant-50 for PvE that can do and run anything a normal 50 can do. In theory, it sounds great - the entire game has been opened up with just one button press! Except that's not how level 50s get played in practice. When someone gets a level 50, they tend to do increasingly selective content as they run down their personal checklist. 'Already have X badge, so no need to run this.' 'I did this event last year and got everything, so I can skip it now.' 'My incarnate powers are all unlocked and maxed out, so no need to do any trials or repeat missions.' There's not even a requirement to log in to make sure a player keeps their character name. Engagement at level 50 quickly becomes increasingly selective with players only playing those characters to do very specific things, and when they can't do the specific thing they want to do on that character chances are they aren't going to play them all. The game turns into a fancy chatroom where players log in and just talk, which is fine but there's still no motivation there to actually do any of content. There's not even any motivation to log in on a level 50 and help a friend level up, arguably one of the most common things folks do given the constant barrage of PLing/farm team comments, because everyone else also has instant 50s.

 

The core issue here is viewing leveling up as an impediment to gameplay, when leveling up is the gameplay - or at least a major facet of it - and the means by which player interaction and community growth is encouraged. When everyone is on the same path, they have to work together and communicate to advance. The person who skips to the end is just going to be hanging out alone waiting for everyone else to show up (and it's entirely possible that they'll just give up and leave before that happens). An instant-50 button for PvE won't broaden engagement for players, it'll just make them increasingly discerning to the point where they won't play at all if they can't do the specific thing they want. 'Let me skip to the end, I promise I'll play the rest of your game later' puts the onus on player investment, and if they skip all the content and all the teaming up with other people that came with it then what is there to be invested in?

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Use a Peacebringer as your base builder and you don't even have to get to 4... inherent flight at 1.

No thanks. I hate Kheldians.

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, El D said:

When everyone is on the same path, they have to work together and communicate to advance. The person who skips to the end is just going to be hanging out alone waiting for everyone else to show up (and it's entirely possible that they'll just give up and leave before that happens).

 

I just quoted a couple standout parts of your post, but the majority of it--almost everything you say about how people play the game and are motivated to do things--is contradicted by my actual experience of playing the game. We are not on the same path and don't need to rely on other players to advance. When I pl a character to 50, it is not the end. It is the start of playing the fully fleshed out character that I had in mind. When I get the character to 50, I'm not hanging out alone waiting for other people to show up (wtf lol?). 

 

These general points your making would've made more sense in 2005. They don't have relevance to everyone now. If you want to play that way, more power to you. But it's a ridiculous expectation to lay on people who have been playing for over a decade and probably have their own very specific reasons for why they still hang around.

1 hour ago, El D said:

An instant-50 button for PvE won't broaden engagement for players, it'll just make them increasingly discerning to the point where they won't play at all if they can't do the specific thing they want. 'Let me skip to the end, I promise I'll play the rest of your game later' puts the onus on player investment, and if they skip all the content and all the teaming up with other people that came with it then what is there to be invested in?

 

Playing the game at level 50. Exactly what happens now when they pl a character past all the content that they know they don't want to play.

Proposals like this don't mean more skipping of content. People are doing that already. The actual gist of it is skipping the hours required to pl, that is the only thing that would be different from the way things are now.

[Akisan]

I've said this on a previous thread: this is a live server, not a sandbox. Farming and PL'ing already push it closer than I'd like to sandbox territory, and this isn't a good enough reason to make that worse.

 

@El D made several good points about the community impact of allowing this change, and I'll add a few:

 

This could seriously hurt sub-50 teaming.  Pretty much the only people adding non-50s into the pool of characters would be roleplayers, people running challenges, and people that disagree with the instant 50 option.  And yeah, you could fill teams with a few exemp'd 50s, but a surprising number of 50s just... run off, and solo the missions.  I know a few people that don't invite 50s to teams, just because of that.

 

Secondly, part of the reason I don't like PLing is because a good chunk of PL'd players don't know how to play that character effectively. One of the big reasons to play a character through normal content is that you (hopefully) learn the synergies between your primary and secondary sets, as well as how they respond to certain buffs/debuffs.  You just don't get that player experience getting PL'd.

 

And yes, it builds character (pun intended).  I've found that I'm far more attached to things that I worked hard for, and things that are just given to me tend to be shelved and (eventually) forgotten.  I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that regard, and I while I may not have many alts (and only one 50), I challenge you altaholics to name all of your 50s, without looking at a list of them, and see which toons you remember more easily.

 

(And yes, @UltraAlt makes a very valid point about the name reservation system - this would absolutely allow name-squatters to just fill their roster with a thousand names, then *maybe* come back to them when they feel like playing that powerset combo)

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

No thanks. I hate Kheldians.

 

... if you're just using them for base building, who cares? You're not going to have quantum base pieces showing up to whiff at you.

[Wavicle]

I'd prefer they continue to make the levelling game more fun, as they have been doing with SOs earlier, t2 at 1, t7-9 by 30, etc.

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Akisan said:

This could seriously hurt sub-50 teaming.  Pretty much the only people adding non-50s into the pool of characters would be roleplayers, people running challenges, and people that disagree with the instant 50 option. 

 

In other words, the people that actually want to play that content. You oppose this proposal because you want to make people do the content they don't like in order to support your preferences. Except that doesn't work anyway because people pl through it in various ways already.

 

1 hour ago, Akisan said:

And yes, it builds character (pun intended).  I've found that I'm far more attached to things that I worked hard for, and things that are just given to me tend to be shelved and (eventually) forgotten.  I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that regard, and I while I may not have many alts (and only one 50), I challenge you altaholics to name all of your 50s, without looking at a list of them, and see which toons you remember more easily.

 

Why do I have to name all of them? What if I can name more 50s than you have characters?

 

Also, if you only have one 50 and not many alts maybe the fear that people using this option (or getting pled) are clueless is making an unwarranted assumption based on your habits. I've played pretty much everything to 50. There are some things that I haven't spent a lot of time on, like warshades and dominators, but once you have a general understanding of how the mechanics of this game work it does not take long to get up to speed on anything.

 

 

[battlewraith]

59 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I'd prefer they continue to make the levelling game more fun, as they have been doing with SOs earlier, t2 at 1, t7-9 by 30, etc.

 

There's no reason they can't do both. They could also provide some sort of meaningful rewards (maybe costume options) for people that level the traditional way.

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

... if you're just using them for base building, who cares? You're not going to have quantum base pieces showing up to whiff at you.

Why? I already have my level 4 ones. Why should I turn around and make level 1 ones too?

 

Also, while I acknowledge I won't be seeing any Voids or Quantums attacking my Kheldian base builder if I make one, I hate Kheldians. Regardless of whether or not I will run the character through any content, my attempts at playing them has me sufficiently hateful of them that I simply do not want to bother having any Kheldian characters.