Let people make their topics and speak.

[Ruin Mage]

I once had a full grown cactus thrown at my face.

[Perfidy]

On 10/25/2022 at 9:58 PM, UltraAlt said:

 

The only way to stop them is to put them on ignore or a Moderator shutting down the thread.

This could be what the OP is referring to. Why do you want to stop them?

Some people are going to be an ass on occasion, despite best efforts. Stopping them does not do you or anyone else favors. If they demonstrate by their own words that you have no concerns about anything they say - just ignore the post, or the poster and move on. There's no reason to seek to stop anyone. 

If we don't read posts that are in contradiction to our own, we'll never learn anything. Anyone with a semblance of intelligence should be able to take the meat and spit out the bone from any post, or determine there's nothing in the post worth parsing. But that's still no reason to stop anyone. 

There are no right or wrong opinions. As for facts, some sources for facts are dubious. So, some folks discount them. That's fair. But opinions? bring 'em on.  We don't all have to agree. And we don't have to be offended just because there's something offensive. 


 

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, Perfidy said:

This could be what the OP is referring to. Why do you want to stop them?

 

Are you asking why I put people on ignore?

Most of the time is because they are personally insulting, trolls, jerks (to use a civil term), or they won't agree to disagree and won't drop discussion on a subject.

 

But my point was a reply to American Angel's post

"Let people make their replies and speak."

 

And what I said is true; "The only way to stop them is to put them on ignore or a Moderator shutting down the thread."

 

People can say want.

If you don't want to deal with that person (aka read their posts or chats), you have a tool that allows you to ignore them (both in the forums and in-game).

If the Moderators don't like it, they can shut down the thread (heck, they can ban an account if they want to)

 

And maybe you could take time to read my signature.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, Perfidy said:

Some people are going to be an ass on occasion, despite best efforts. Stopping them does not do you or anyone else favors. If they demonstrate by their own words that you have no concerns about anything they say - just ignore the post, or the poster and move on. There's no reason to seek to stop anyone. 

If we don't read posts that are in contradiction to our own, we'll never learn anything. Anyone with a semblance of intelligence should be able to take the meat and spit out the bone from any post, or determine there's nothing in the post worth parsing. But that's still no reason to stop anyone. 

 

Yep. And some are going to be a jerk repeatedly.

You aren't superior to anyone else. I don't claim to be.

But I am here for an enjoyable experience and, if someone is ruining that, I and everyone else in the forum and in-game have tools to stop that.

 

You are being insulting and that is not necessary.

If you want to be insulted then by all means don't ignore people that insult you because you think that is some kind of badge of merit.

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by UltraAlt
changed me to be.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Perfidy said:

This could be what the OP is referring to. Why do you want to stop them?

I know it wasn't me you were responding to, but I'm curious - do you think that people should *not* be able to place others on ignore, or that moderators should *not* shut down problematic threads?

 

As long as what you're posting is within the ToS/rules of conduct, then post whatever you like.  At the same, (and abiding by the same rules), others can respond to those posts however they like.  Whether the OP wants to respond/defend their post is completely their choice as well...

[Sirius.Games]

One problem with posts is that it's opinion based.

 

Topics about beliefs about the game come down to philosophy of how the game should be played gamers can be categorized into a few different types and unfortunately putting effort or change that doesn't help every type will get negative responses. Even those that do will get the trolls.

 

Plus suggestions are attempting to fix agames design flaws while continuing to expand options. There's conflict and I think with homecoming the players feel closer to the designers than other games so people, including myself, are louder about it. We feel our voice is more likely to be heard. That noise can make us feel better.

 

Also the low hanging fruit... Shut up

[Luminara]

[biostem]

56 minutes ago, Sirius.Games said:

One problem with posts is that it's opinion based.

Agreed.

 

56 minutes ago, Sirius.Games said:

Topics about beliefs about the game come down to philosophy of how the game should be played gamers can be categorized into a few different types and unfortunately putting effort or change that doesn't help every type will get negative responses.

That's not my experience.  Usually it's the posts that have a very vague title and/or little to no explanation of what they want, then an inability or refusal to explain their position or reasoning.  Posts that want to force a particular playstyle or such playstyle limitations on others also fall into this category - some negative responses are in fact justified.

 

56 minutes ago, Sirius.Games said:

Plus suggestions are attempting to fix agames design flaws while continuing to expand options.

I think this is a mischaracterization of most posts;  I'd argue that the majority of suggestion posts, at least, are simply requesting changes to the game that their respective OPs would like see implemented.  These don't necessarily address any design flaws or would entail any fixes...

 

56 minutes ago, Sirius.Games said:

There's conflict and I think with homecoming the players feel closer to the designers than other games so people, including myself, are louder about it. We feel our voice is more likely to be heard.

What a particular player feel is not indicative of reality.  The devs being approachable isn't a bad thing, but if a person feels that entitles said developer team to lend them an ear or pay special attention to their suggestions is entirely on them, not the devs or the community as a whole.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by biostem

[Spankea]

1 hour ago, Sirius.Games said:

One problem with posts is that it's opinion based.

 

It still always feels like the more you post the more they change the game to that liking.  If you try to change it from something they already got changed it'll get really defensive.

[Major_Decoy]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

But what about the chorus?

[Perfidy]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

I know it wasn't me you were responding to, but I'm curious - do you think that people should *not* be able to place others on ignore, or that moderators should *not* shut down problematic threads?

 

As long as what you're posting is within the ToS/rules of conduct, then post whatever you like.  At the same, (and abiding by the same rules), others can respond to those posts however they like.  Whether the OP wants to respond/defend their post is completely their choice as well...

Ignore away, if that suits you. 

[Luminara]

13 minutes ago, Spankea said:

 

It still always feels like the more you post the more they change the game to that liking.

 

If that were the case, @Bill Z Bubba wouldn't be AWOL.

 

And I can say that there have been numerous changes that I didn't particularly like, but they happened anyway.  The new sentinel inherent?  Not a fan.  The removal of Empyrean merit conversion to reward merits?  Kick in the naughty spot.  Glue Arrow being set to location-targeted?  Hate it so much I don't take Glue Arrow on any of my TA/* or */TA characters.  Toggle suspension on offensive toggles?  Strenuously argued against it.

 

Look at my post count.  Look at my rep.  Did those numbers have any sway?  Nope.  If they were making an effort to satisfy me, they failed miserably.

 

But that's the thing, they aren't making an effort to satisfy me.  Or @Bill Z Bubba, or @Troo, or @Snarky, or any individual or group of individuals with a high post count or rep.  They're trying to do the most good for the greatest number of people.  Sometimes that means some of us don't get what we want.  Sometimes it means some of us have something taken away.  But it also means others do get what they want, or gain something.  That's life.

 

Being garrulous or popular doesn't give anyone control over development.  Nor does coming in after the fact and having a snowflake meltdown.  The HC team does their own thing, we're all just along for the ride.

[Perfidy]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Are you asking why I put people on ignore?

Most of the time is because they are personally insulting, trolls, jerks (to use a civil term), or they won't agree to disagree and won't drop discussion on a subject.

 

But my point was a reply to American Angel's post

"Let people make their replies and speak."

 

And what I said is true; "The only way to stop them is to put them on ignore or a Moderator shutting down the thread."

 

People can say want.

If you don't want to deal with that person (aka read their posts or chats), you have a tool that allows you to ignore them (both in the forums and in-game).

If the Moderators don't like it, they can shut down the thread (heck, they can ban an account if they want to)

 

And maybe you could take time to read my signature.

 

 

I think I stepped in a mess here and now regret it. 

I wasn't asking why you put people on ignore - but rather, unless folks are insulting you specifically, why they would need to be stopped. It's probably a case of semantics and I misconstrued your comment. If so - my bad. 

The way I see it - there's more than a couple of perspectives to many of the issues we find ourselves discussing, so I don't want to put anyone into a specific box. 
It's one thing to ignore someone who's gotten personal. 
But it's another thing to recognize that there is such a thing as an argument, philosophically speaking, not to be confused with heated vitriol.

Devs propose a change
Player dislikes change for x, y and z. 
Other player likes the change. 
Other players tries to dig into x from first player. 
Yet another player looks at previous player's post, and proceeds to write, "Did you even test it? You can't say this or that until you've tested." 
Twenty players read and sigh, tab away and do something else. 

Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong. Passions run high. I encourage you to put me on ignore if you disagree with me. It will save me a lot of time. Some threads may look strange to you, seeing a person reply to me and you're left trying to fill in the blanks. But, so be it. 

I just see no harm in simply not engaging with folks who demonstrate a certain level of unreasonableness. But that's just me - you do you. 
I'd rather see what folks are saying, even if I think it's stupid. Every now and then, one of the crazy people here will share something I didn't know.  

[Troo]

22 minutes ago, Perfidy said:

I don't want to put anyone into a specific box.

 

fyi, @Snarky has a preferred box

[Luminara]

Just now, Troo said:

 

fyi, @Snarky has a preferred box

[Yomo Kimyata]

29 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

 

But that's the thing, they aren't making an effort to satisfy me.  Or @Bill Z Bubba, or @Troo, or @Snarky, or any individual or group of individuals with a high post count or rep.  They're trying to do the most good for the greatest number of people.  Sometimes that means some of us don't get what we want.  Sometimes it means some of us have something taken away.  But it also means others do get what they want, or gain something.  That's life.

 

 

I hear you, but I do not believe in the slightest they are trying to do the most good for the greatest number of people.

 

I believe they are trying to do things they want, and they are putting in a small amount of effort to listen to people.  And I get it -- 90% of the suggestions board on this site is:  "Someone else got something and I want that plus a bonus".  The hardest part about managing ANY group activity is weeding out the folks who want to get special treatment.

 

But I can't even pretend that the volunteer devs on this project are trying to do the most good for the greatest number of people.  That's what I would do, personally, and that's one of my greatest beefs with the Homecoming team.  But the truth is that they work on projects that they want, for reasons that they want it.  And that's their right because this Homecoming is their game.  It's not mine.  It's not PK's.  It's not a meritocracy.  It's an "I'm in chargeocracy" and honestly that's understandable.

[Snarky]

28 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

fyi, @Snarky has a preferred box

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, Perfidy said:

I think I stepped in a mess here and now regret it. 

 

You seem to be apologizing, so I accept that.

 

I do give people a chance before I put them on ignore unless their behavior is so excessive that I feel that need to ignore them immediately.

 

There is so reason to personally demean or attack other people in the forums. It seems to be against the forum rules to me.

 

People have to understand that people aren't going to necessarily agree with them when they post.

 

I stated in my signature there are those that feel like they have a right to attack others. They deserve to be more than just ignored, but ignore is the only power I have to remove them from my sphere of enjoyment - because that is why I'm here ... to enjoy the game and the forums.

 

Disagreement is fine, but there is a time to disagree, and a time to say - okay, we are saying the same thing back and forth; there is no reason for this to continue. If one side can't let it go at that, then there is an issue. Sometimes this also has to default to ignoring them so I won't have to waste my time dealing with them again.

[Grouchybeast]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

But I can't even pretend that the volunteer devs on this project are trying to do the most good for the greatest number of people.  That's what I would do, personally, and that's one of my greatest beefs with the Homecoming team.  But the truth is that they work on projects that they want, for reasons that they want it.  And that's their right because this Homecoming is their game.  It's not mine.  It's not PK's.  It's not a meritocracy.  It's an "I'm in chargeocracy" and honestly that's understandable.

 

I have no idea what 'the most good for the greatest number of people' would even look like for an MMO with a playerbase that contains multiple widely divergent playstyles.  Maybe refactoring the underlying codebase to make it more stable and easier to work on in the future?

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I have no idea what 'the most good for the greatest number of people' would even look like for an MMO with a playerbase that contains multiple widely divergent playstyles.  Maybe refactoring the underlying codebase to make it more stable and easier to work on in the future?

Immanentize the Eschaton

[twozerofoxtrot]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Immanentize the Eschaton

 

What like... sundown?

[biostem]

7 hours ago, Perfidy said:

Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong.

I wouldn't speak in such absolute terms - people can most definitely be right or wrong, in certain circumstances and on particular topics.  The notion that just because something is an opinion doesn't render it exempt from this.  A better adage would be that "Nobody is always right", though people can always be wrong, (though even that is pretty rare, and such people tend to not live long).

Edited November 5, 2022 by biostem

[Tachstar]

I my own damn self am always right. Always! Except for when I'm wrong.

[Perfidy]

12 hours ago, biostem said:

I wouldn't speak in such absolute terms - people can most definitely be right or wrong, in certain circumstances and on particular topics.  The notion that just because something is an opinion doesn't render it exempt from this.  A better adage would be that "Nobody is always right", though people can always be wrong, (though even that is pretty rare, and such people tend to not live long).

Nothing wrong with absolute terms from time to time. And certainly nothing wrong with a gentle nudge in the right direction in an attempt to be helpful and more clear. But we're going to have to disagree on this point. And that's fine. To each their own. 

[biostem]

17 minutes ago, Perfidy said:

Nothing wrong with absolute terms from time to time.

Way to move the goal post.  We're talking about people, here, not abstract concepts.  Refer to numbers or formulae in absolute terms if you wish, but in terms of people, I wouldn't be so rigid in your thinking or classification...