Stamina

[Rudra]

My mistake. Apologies. ... so then how is END management difficult? I have problems because I usually have no enhancements slotted.

 

Edit: Of course it goes over to a new page leaving my response to @Grouchybeast hanging without clear reference for the comment.... My apologies and thanks to @Grouchybeast for the correction.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Rudra

[Psyonico]

15 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Yes that is what i was trying to say. That the powers come earlier now but enhancements don't.

You can buy SOs starting at level 2.

 

You may want to look at slotting your attacks with an accuracy first then an end redux.

 

Typically I slot my attacks 1 accuracy, 1 end redux, then damage.  For most toons that I've made this has been enough to handle my endurance problems until I get to higher levels when I start to run lots of toggles.  That's the point in which I start slotting set bonuses.

[Gobbledigook]

35 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

You can buy SOs starting at level 2.

 

You may want to look at slotting your attacks with an accuracy first then an end redux.

 

Typically I slot my attacks 1 accuracy, 1 end redux, then damage.  For most toons that I've made this has been enough to handle my endurance problems until I get to higher levels when I start to run lots of toggles.  That's the point in which I start slotting set bonuses.

Yes i email some influence to myself so i can afford the SO's. I am fortunate to have many 50's. I don't know why they just don't get rid of DO's to simplify it and reduce the cost of SO' for newbies as i know i would struggle to afford them and upgrade them just doing missions/dfb without funding myself. There are ways to make money but newbies probably won't know how and would rather just smash faces :P.

 

I don't tend to slot until in the teens i just DFB or power level myself to the teens, so have enough slots for some end/acc/damage, but i have 50's and can do that. Early levels go very fast.

 

The suggestion above was more for new players to the game. I thought it could make early levels a little easier for them as i am sure they will been keen to be testing out all their new powers and probably can not afford to slot many SO's. Many times i see someone asking for some funds in chat because they can not afford to upgrade their SO's. Been there myself when i hadn't got around to muling some funds over.

 

It was only a very small buff suggestion, not to make it too easy for them but a little more manageable.

 

Perhaps the answer is to get rid of DO's and reduce SO costs and upgrades to make it easier for new players to slot and maintain them. At least they will have easier access to the better enhancements for endurance reasons etc. Anyone with a 50 is not gonna have a problem at all slotting their characters.

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Luminara]

6 hours ago, Psyonico said:

You may want to look at slotting your attacks with an accuracy first then an end redux.

 

This times infinity.  Low hit chance is the real cause of endurance management problems.  Missing forces the player to use more attacks, more attacks use up more endurance, and more endurance per attack than all the toggles a character has active.

[Heatstroke]

On 11/27/2022 at 1:29 AM, kelika2 said:

i dont wanna bust your balls or anything but end reduction in attacks > end reduction in toggles.

experiencing this again with an IOed health/stamina at level 27, but no IO sets in attacks

 

20% endred in toggles

20% endmod in autos

60% endred in attacks

 

maybe

 

 

I cant tell you how many times I have had this conversation over the last 20 years.

 

Attacks Drain End FAR more than toggles. BIG attacks drain End more than small attacks.  The MORE recharge you add into your build. The FASTER you end drops. You have hasten? Every time hasten drops you lose 20 end.

 

People think toggles drain more because they are swirling around all the time.

 

[AerialAssault]

Skill issue.

 

If a simpleton with a low C grade in maths like me can crack the Endurance code then anyone can.

 

For any new starters struggling then there is General and Help, with no shortage of helpful folks to guide the way.

 

Unlike ME, who had to figure it out myself, uphill, both ways, in the snow, against the wind with nary a candle for light! And I LOVED it.

[Jacktar]

One change that made my lowbie life just so much better was the rewards for getting all eight explore badges in a zone. Every new alt rolled gets both the Atlas and Echo Atlas rewards at level one. (I mainly add the Echo Galaxy zone as well if I have the time but usually wait till I have bought an hour of temp jetpack for that zone)

Converted into two salvage pieces and sold at one inf each gets very nearly two million inf.

And then buying those  SO’s at level three makes any end problems vanish. No need to be get inf emailed or muled across.

So get the inf and buy and slot those End Red SO’s asap.

All sorted.

And being a millionaire at lvl one is just a hoot, whatever you do with it 🥳🥳💵💵

[biostem]

I also think more emphasis should be placed on pacing yourself - often there are times when you can sustain a hit, instead of firing off that high-damage or AoE attack against an enemy with only a sliver of health left.  Don't feel embarrassed if brawl or that origin attack would be a better use of end, in that particular instance...

Edited November 29, 2022 by biostem

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Jacktar said:

And then buying those  SO’s at level three makes any end problems vanish.

You'd be much better off, long-term, putting that inf toward either buying or crafting some generic IOs, as they'll never expire...

[Zect]

Buy a full set of defense, offense and survival amps from the P2W vendor for 24k inf at level 1. Boom, problem solved.

[Psyonico]

7 hours ago, biostem said:

You'd be much better off, long-term, putting that inf toward either buying or crafting some generic IOs, as they'll never expire...

Except SOs are stronger until level 30 IOs.

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

Buy a full set of defense, offense and survival amps from the P2W vendor for 24k inf at level 1. Boom, problem solved.

Does a level 1 have 24k inf? 

[Jacktar]

10 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Does a level 1 have 24k inf? 

cough! lvl one millionaire as above 😀

[DreadShinobi]

10 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Does a level 1 have 24k inf? 

@Jacktar just posted if you scroll up, how he makes 2 mil inf at lvl 1 on a new alt without a transfer.

[Doomguide2005]

58 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

@Jacktar just posted if you scroll up, how he makes 2 mil inf at lvl 1 on a new alt without a transfer.

Truth, of sorts.  That's as much a matter of knowledge as skill.  For a brand new player there's all sorts of things you need to know for even something fairly simple like getting all the badges in AP including knowing why you might want to and that they even exist to find in the first place.  Even moreso if they've never played a MMO before (though I'd guess that's getting increasingly rare).  Starting with not doing the tutorial (if you're going to make a couple million at 1st anyway).  

[biostem]

2 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Except SOs are stronger until level 30 IOs.

And you have to replace/upgrade them every 3 levels...

[biostem]

2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Does a level 1 have 24k inf? 

Even just using the free "Inner Inspiration" prestige power, you can frequently get much more than that if you get some large inspirations and list them on the AH...

[Vanden]

21 hours ago, Heatstroke said:

I cant tell you how many times I have had this conversation over the last 20 years.

 

Attacks Drain End FAR more than toggles. BIG attacks drain End more than small attacks.  The MORE recharge you add into your build. The FASTER you end drops. You have hasten? Every time hasten drops you lose 20 end.

 

People think toggles drain more because they are swirling around all the time.

 

It's just one of those weird paradoxes of CoH. We can produce all the numbers in the world that show that attacks consume much more endurance than toggles, yet it's undeniable that it just feels like toggles are the major source of endurance problems. Adding another toggle to your build while leveling up seems to increase your endurance woes in a way another attack never does. Perhaps because most toggles don't directly contribute to damage? It's a mystery.

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Vanden said:

t's just one of those weird paradoxes of CoH. We can produce all the numbers in the world that show that attacks consume much more endurance than toggles, yet it's undeniable that it just feels like toggles are the major source of endurance problems. Adding another toggle to your build while leveling up seems to increase your endurance woes in a way another attack never does. Perhaps because most toggles don't directly contribute to damage? It's a mystery.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I do notice that, at least on my attacks, I generally want to slot 2 acc, 3 dmg, then 1 recharge/range/special proc, so it's a tough call to decide which I'm willing to give up for that end redux...

[Wavicle]

Keep your toggles on. Slot Endurance Reduction in your attacks.

 

On a Tanker levelling up: 1 acc, 2 dam, 1 end red

 

At higher levels you'll have more flexibility, obviously.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Wavicle

[Wavicle]

16 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

It's just one of those weird paradoxes of CoH. We can produce all the numbers in the world that show that attacks consume much more endurance than toggles, yet it's undeniable that it just feels like toggles are the major source of endurance problems. Adding another toggle to your build while leveling up seems to increase your endurance woes in a way another attack never does. Perhaps because most toggles don't directly contribute to damage? It's a mystery.

 

I think it's because armor toggles limit your recovery even while not in combat. Other classes are able to recover quickly between fights. This is balanced (maybe?) by melee being way tougher AND doing more damage.

[biostem]

37 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I think it's because armor toggles limit your recovery even while not in combat. Other classes are able to recover quickly between fights. This is balanced (maybe?) by melee being way tougher AND doing more damage.

I tend to agree with this sentiment - while attacks may use more end in the moment, it's a fairly simple matter to just not use them for a period while you recover.  Unless you are going to constantly be toggling armors off and on, they are a constant drain...

[Grouchybeast]

On 11/28/2022 at 12:34 AM, Rudra said:

My mistake. Apologies. ... so then how is END management difficult? I have problems because I usually have no enhancements slotted.

 

You're right, End management really shouldn't be difficult now.  SOs are such a massive buff to low-level characters, even though it was framed as a pure quality of life improvement.  Now, low-level characters with SOs can end up with bigger bonuses than high-level characters exemped down to their level, because it throws out the whole balance of the scaling rules. 

 

I even thought about using SOs, which I've never done, since I only started playing the game after the Invention system came out.  But like you, I don't usually bother slotting anything at low levels, except a few uniques.  So I guess it wasn't a big enough buff to overcome my inertia. :)

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Even just using the free "Inner Inspiration" prestige power, you can frequently get much more than that if you get some large inspirations and list them on the AH...

Experienced players may know that.

 

Will a level 1 newbie want to or even think of doing that?

 

Maybe the stamina/toggle buff was a bad idea lol but it may open other suggestions. Like why do need DO's now? why not just have SO's only and simplify it for new players and reduce the cost of them a little more at lower levels.

 

A lot of ideas suggested here that will work but will not be known to new players., but as others have said they will learn the hard way. By 50 the endurance management becomes a bad dream 😛

[biostem]

Just now, Gobbledegook said:

Will a level 1 newbie want to or even think of doing that?

You seem to be working on the assumption that players can't or won't ask for help.  There's an entire help channel for that exact purpose, not to mention the forums or even just other players around them.  Please get out of the mindset that everything should be explicitly spelled out for you...