Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I think it is when they are on a single target rather than surrounded by enemies.

 

I mean, it's absolutely not.  I jut double-checked to make sure I wasn't dreaming (or that there's been a recent change) and grabbed my level 50 spines/bio group and took it out.  Just in case, I overcapped aggro by pulling two groups onto me and made sure.  My fury did not get above 90, full stop, even when I had 17 people on me and however many more sniping from the sides.

[Wavicle]

No. Brutes were only nerfed at the very top end. At the bottom they were buffed.

[SeraphimKensai]

Personally I'd say a damage cap of 775% and Fury 1.0 was better than the current iteration of fury.

[Snarky]

it doesnt matter cause hes still dead

[Rokkeb]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:42 PM, aethereal said:

 

I mean, it's absolutely not.  I jut double-checked to make sure I wasn't dreaming (or that there's been a recent change) and grabbed my level 50 spines/bio group and took it out.  Just in case, I overcapped aggro by pulling two groups onto me and made sure.  My fury did not get above 90, full stop, even when I had 17 people on me and however many more sniping from the sides.

My fire farmer brute never gets above 90% fury , it's like it's hard stuck there. 

[Wavicle]

Does the ATO take you over 90?

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Does the ATO take you over 90?

No.  The Brute I tested with has the ATO slotted, she did not get over 90 even when overcapped on aggro.

[Lord_Omega]

What would really help is if the Devs would put the game back to how it was when it came out and stop screwing with the AT, You can't please everyone all they are doing is pissing players off and making them leave the game,  Game came out everyone had a role on the team to play to keep everyone moving forward, Now not so much,A Healer is if not already a waste of time to make, Tanks were built to Hold the Mobs's Brutes were made to hold the mobs and to kill. Period, go back to how it was and be done with it, Tanks were never meant to be at brute lvls. But because of the crying as ass kissing going on, they are at that lvl now. I mean why make a char like a brute or tank when a little lower down the food chain a Scrapper stalker can now do almost the same freaken thing, so why have a have either AT,

[Wavicle]

7 minutes ago, Lord_Omega said:

What would really help is if the Devs would put the game back to how it was when it came out and stop screwing with the AT, You can't please everyone all they are doing is pissing players off and making them leave the game,  Game came out everyone had a role on the team to play to keep everyone moving forward, Now not so much,A Healer is if not already a waste of time to make, Tanks were built to Hold the Mobs's Brutes were made to hold the mobs and to kill. Period, go back to how it was and be done with it, Tanks were never meant to be at brute lvls. But because of the crying as ass kissing going on, they are at that lvl now. I mean why make a char like a brute or tank when a little lower down the food chain a Scrapper stalker can now do almost the same freaken thing, so why have a have either AT,

No class is "needed" nor is any class pointless. That's how this game has always been. You can bring almost any combination of characters to anything.

[Hopestar]

12 hours ago, Lord_Omega said:

What would really help is if the Devs would put the game back to how it was when it came out and stop screwing with the AT, You can't please everyone all they are doing is pissing players off and making them leave the game,  Game came out everyone had a role on the team to play to keep everyone moving forward, Now not so much,A Healer is if not already a waste of time to make, Tanks were built to Hold the Mobs's Brutes were made to hold the mobs and to kill. Period, go back to how it was and be done with it, Tanks were never meant to be at brute lvls. But because of the crying as ass kissing going on, they are at that lvl now. I mean why make a char like a brute or tank when a little lower down the food chain a Scrapper stalker can now do almost the same freaken thing, so why have a have either AT,

The only "Healer" that is a wast of time to make is one that has only 1 attack (if it even uses it), on auto follow, and isn't using all its powers, like infamously stupid Empathy players not using Fortitude, Clear Mind, and AB. Tankers are only better because their ATOs aren't useless and they hit a wider area of targets. If a brute brings every enemy around a door or wall corner, they'll still hit the same amount as a Tanker. It's mainly just that the ATOs and AT passive are not good anymore. You still get more damage until both Tanker and Brute are at cap, then it only comes down to Tanker being able to hit a larger AoE. Scrapper and Stalker have 75% resistance cap, while Brute has 90%, that's a LOT more damage they are able to take.

Just to clarify, I don't like this change either and hate that Brute ATOs are completely pointless (among a lot of changes to ATOs of other classes that HC powers team seem unwilling to do), but I just want you to know, it's a lot more overblown than the problem really is. Yes Tankers are superior, but only if you're minmaxing and/or trying to eek out as much DPS as possible while at damage cap by a supportive team.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Hopestar

[Brutal Justice]

1 hour ago, Hopestar said:

Tankers are only better because their ATOs aren't useless and they hit a wider area of targets. If a brute brings every enemy around a door or wall corner, they'll still hit the same amount as a Tanker.

This is untrue.  Not because of a brute nerf but the tanker buff.  Gauntlet also increases the target cap of most tanker cones and pbaoe.  There are exceptions, but a brute cone that hits 5 will hit 10 on a tank and a pbaoe that hits 10 on a brute will hit 16 on a tank.  
 

I believe the increased target cap and radius/range from gauntlet is also not factored into the proc chance for damage procs, so a tanker also procs better than it should.  

[bentlax33]

On 1/11/2023 at 5:38 PM, Snarky said:

Brutes have been scre... errr changed a few times.  The most memorable was "The great Brute Fury nerf"  Notice how your Fury bar never goes to the top?  Or does for 1 millisecond when you hit Villain archetype power and is squished before you can get an attack off?  Wasn't always like that.  It used to go to 11, or at least to 10.  Now it goes to 7?  8?  There are people who will tell you this was not a nerf.  Not many, but we got some nutballs out there.  Fury used to be hard to get and keep.  Brutes used ro have to work to keep capped....cannonballing fresh spawns to pump that bar, riding the line between madness survival and damage.  Now, yawn, Fury maintains itself and Tankers mostly out damage Brutes thanks to Tanker damage buffs and AoE increases on Tankers.

 

That is why I do not play Brutes anymore.  

I do remember I used to be focused on maintaining fury and wanting to go go go on my brutes….it definitely made them feel different.  Now I pretty much assume it will basically be at 8 all the time pretty easily.  I don’t pay attention to it now.   You don’t need to as it maintains longer and is not hard to build.    
 

Brutes are my favorite AT because

1. I hate runners on scrappers

2. Faster ST than tankers.  Good enough AOE for me.  
 

However I definitely keep their base damage vs Crits in mind when choosing sets for brutes.  As well as heavily favoring armor (edit I meant armor sets not “defensive”)sets with a damage aura.  

Edited July 9, 2023 by bentlax33

[Sooparyan]

What about adding a .1% resistance scaling to fury?

 

I think that could go a long way in putting Brute back in the middle of Tanker/Scrapper territory.

 

Or is that just too much?

[Project]

TL:DR - Stop comparing archetypes - they fill different roles. Instead focus on the experience. Is your Brute fun? If yes, play it - if no, take one of the other 800 archetypes the game provides 🙂

What a load of nitty gritty boohooing I see in this conversation 😄

Sorry to be rude - But Brutes are amazing! 

Yes Tanks got a buff, but Tanks needed a buff - Yes Brutes got a nerf, because they needed a nerf (about 20% dmg on max rage, because max range is very hard to get. But to be honest that doesn't really matter all that much for hte overall experience) - currently we have a decently high damage output, and until a Scrapper goes level 50 and add a bunch of speciel stuff, Brute tend to stay ahead in the damage curve, and be more survivable than a Scrapper. 

Brutes have a 90% dmg cap - yes it's harder to actually get, but it can be done (just not for all dmg types at all time). Already now we are less survivable but overall more damaging than Tanks (in single target dmg) and more survivable and even more damaging than Scrappers on average. 

I see Brutes as the Master Race - whenever I roll I toon I often lack the flexibilty that a Brute offers.

Bottomline - disregarding the other archetypes do I enjoy my Brute. The answer is Yes I do! I don't care if a Tank or Stalker or Scrapper can do better. Brutes do their thing, and it's amazing!

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Project said:

TL:DR - Stop comparing archetypes - they fill different roles. Instead focus on the experience. Is your Brute fun? If yes, play it - if no, take one of the other 800 archetypes the game provides 🙂

 

If nobody had been comparing archetypes Brutes would not have received the nerfs they did. Your statement is like coming to the person who was robbed who wants the their property back to stop worrying about what others have.

 

Quote

Yes Tanks got a buff, but Tanks needed a buff - Yes Brutes got a nerf, because they needed a nerf (about 20% dmg on max rage, because max range is very hard to get. But to be honest that doesn't really matter all that much for hte overall experience) - currently we have a decently high damage output, and until a Scrapper goes level 50 and add a bunch of speciel stuff, Brute tend to stay ahead in the damage curve, and be more survivable than a Scrapper. 

 

How could Brutes need a nerf outside of comparison to other archetypes?

 

As for poor, poor Scrappers, this is from play on one of my scrappers earlier this week:

 

 

He is level 41, but he's had the ability to turn out criticals like that for a while...without IOs.

 

Edited February 22 by Erratic1

[victusfate]

On 1/10/2023 at 3:24 AM, kito said:

And if/wen the nurf hammer hits procs it will hit tanks the hardest I think. I doubt brutes will feel it as they don't need to over buff there DMG to hit like a tank they need to over buff there defence to tank like a tank.

It will hit tankers, but Controllers and MMs will get annihilated by it.

[ShimmerDoll]

It's sad in this day and age they nerf anything. I play other MMOs where they just buff and let every class solo (or duo) and everyone has fun because that's why we play games.  Life is too short to destroy people's fun in a game of all places.

[Wavicle]

39 minutes ago, ShimmerDoll said:

It's sad in this day and age they nerf anything. I play other MMOs where they just buff and let every class solo (or duo) and everyone has fun because that's why we play games.  Life is too short to destroy people's fun in a game of all places.

 

Other MMOs nerf stuff too. All MMOs do.

And every class in this game can solo. They can't all solo on the same difficulty, but that's also true in other MMOs.

[Ukase]

On 1/10/2023 at 3:57 AM, kito said:

 

Like farming. Not often I see tank/scrapper farm build if they where so much better in every way the brute would not rule the farms. 

 

But I guess yes if you want to power games to the peak off all content the brute would be unneeded.

So, according to the farm guides, the tanker is the best farmer, due to the changes in AE that happened...page 5, I think. 

A brute can still hold their own in a farm, but the build needs to focus less on dps and more on hitpoints and regen - and in many cases, will need the HP buff from two of the passive accolades. 

That said, the brute has a distinct advantage and that's the fury bar. 

[kito]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, according to the farm guides, the tanker is the best farmer, due to the changes in AE that happened...page 5, I think. 

A brute can still hold their own in a farm, but the build needs to focus less on dps and more on hitpoints and regen - and in many cases, will need the HP buff from two of the passive accolades. 

That said, the brute has a distinct advantage and that's the fury bar. 

 

If your min/maxing a farmer I guess but at that point it's better to run 3 farmers a tank a brute and a scrapper/blaster/defender my husband made me a farmer in 2019 never changed its build and it can still do the comit map in about 5 min. It's a brute. So to say you need a tank might be a bit hyperbolic 

 

But as of 2024 I have seen many new players join and they all struggled to play solo tank lvls 20+ but excelled at brutes. Again showing there not useless, they just don't min max as good as outher classes it seems. But that's part of having different classes I assume

[Erratic1]

17 minutes ago, kito said:

So to say you need a tank might be a bit hyperbolic 

 

UKase did not say you need a tank to farm, he said that Tankers were better farmers:

 

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, according to the farm guides, the tanker is the best farmer, due to the changes in AE that happened...page 5, I think. 

 

If you want to farm on a Defenderwws, it will be slow and painful, but you can do it. But Brutes being the best farmers is an absurd thing to maintain, especially in light of Trapdoor results showing Tankers well outperforming Brutes for clears. Yes, a Brute can farm. A Tanker does it better regardless of your memories of sometime long, long ago. You will (a) survive better as a Tanker and (b) hit more targets with your AoEs than a Brute can.

 

The ONLY way a Brute will pull ahead is if you are farming solo bosses, which I am pretty sure is not what people have in mind when speaking of farming.

[Haijinx]

If you are going to farm bosses a Scrapper would be better.

[Wavicle]

Who even cares who is the best at farming trash mobs with no bosses?

[Erratic1]

4 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Who even cares who is the best at farming trash mobs with no bosses?

 

 All those people who choose to farm, and they are dealing with the bosses which are there.

 

But what is being addressed here is the contention that Brutes are fine because of the claim they are top farmers (which they aren't any longer).

[tidge]

On 2/28/2024 at 3:56 AM, victusfate said:

It will hit tankers, but Controllers and MMs will get annihilated by it.

 

This deserves more upvotes.

 

If there is ever a Homecoming change to %damage, I feel like we will see solo players mostly focusing on Blasters and Scrappers, with some evangelists for Brutes and Stalkers. The only way some AT can keep their map-clear times (especially at x8) within an order of magnitude of other ATs is by leveraging %damage.

 

There are some folks that see %damage as inherently unfair because with them it becomes possible for all ATs to clear large maps with x8 spawn sizes in less than an hour. This is exactly the wrong definition of unfair. Game rewards are (with the exception of Prismatic Aether Particles and merit rewards) directly scale with the number of enemy defeats. I don't want to play City of X where the game rewards is NOT tied to enemy defeats, and I don't want to go back to a game where a Defender has to take eight times as long to clear a map as a Blaster.

 

Characters that leverage %damage must carefully pick and slot powers to do that leveraging. It is so much better for the health of the game that all ATs have this option. No players should have their feelings hurt because %damage exists.