I want to Interface with you

[Scarlet Shocker]

but the real question is how, and why?

 

Interface seems kinda tricky in some ways - and there are some very serious questions to be asked about some of the powers there. Diamagnetic I'm looking at you in particular. What have you got to say for yourself?

 

But the thing I find about Interface is that it doesn't have a natural home in the way that say Alpha or Hybrid does. It can be so many different things.  Perhaps that's its beauty; it gives the player a raft of flexibility which isn't usual in this game (but I'm all for playing it your way)  But given that few powers in this game are quite so free form that seems uncharacteristic and although laudable leaves us with a dilemma.

 

What works well?

 

Who does it work well with?

 

Why does it work so well?

 

Where does it fail?

 

Is it possible to go wrong in choosing it?

 

Given that there are serious questions about the actual function of Diamagnetic can we trust the other powers to do the same? (For reference in a different discussion away from here it does seem that there is strong evidence to suggest that Diamagnetic is not meeting its minimum standard of PVE functionality - I don't want to explain it in detail because I am in no way a numbers expert in this game and I am going on the data of others. But there seems to be a significant issue between the data in CoD2, and the actual gameplay stats.)

 

If one of those powers is buggered, can we rely on others to do what they say? If you like playing in numbers in this game, feel free to conduct your own research.

 

But my question remains: Interface's general flexibility suggests it should work fitting any power to any AT - depending on what you wish to achieve. If that is true, you potentially have a great deal of scope as a player - but do you really or do we find we funnel into a few choices?

[Snarky]

I go thematic and move on….

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

can we trust the other powers to do the same?

I mean, unless you have direct access to the backend interactions of the interface ability and the powers/entities they interact with, you have to "trust" the game to some extent.  You can do some testing with diamagnetic slotted and unslotted, accumulate some data, and present it to the devs as a bug?

[Luminara]

I use Diamagnetic Core for any character with survivability issues, haven't noticed any problems.  Stacking 20% -ToHit is very effective at mitigating damage.

 

Otherwise, I use Reactive Core.  10% (4 * 2.5%) extra -Res, without spending a slot or interrupting my attack chain?  Yes, please.

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

I use Diamagnetic Core for any character with survivability issues, haven't noticed any problems.  Stacking 20% -ToHit is very effective at mitigating damage.

 

Otherwise, I use Reactive Core.  10% (4 * 2.5%) extra -Res, without spending a slot or interrupting my attack chain?  Yes, please.

 

 

I think this is the issue: where are you getting these numbers from? I'd be very interested in knowing that.

 

 

[KC4800]

My fire/savage tank uses Diamagnetic Core as well as my Beam Rifle/Ninjitsu Sentinel. One is resistance based, one is defense based. I would think the resistance based tank would receive more benefit. My sent never seems to get hit by anything but what do I know? We cant see the numbers anyway. My interface choices are probably pretty arbitrary. I use gravitic on my ice tank AND my Ice stalker who both don't need help with slows. Is it doing anything at all for them? who knows?

[Hyperstrike]

5 minutes ago, KC4800 said:

My fire/savage tank uses Diamagnetic Core as well as my Beam Rifle/Ninjitsu Sentinel. One is resistance based, one is defense based. I would think the resistance based tank would receive more benefit. My sent never seems to get hit by anything but what do I know? We cant see the numbers anyway. My interface choices are probably pretty arbitrary. I use gravitic on my ice tank AND my Ice stalker who both don't need help with slows. Is it doing anything at all for them? who knows?

Depends on your Defense levels.

If you have NO Defense, it'll help a little.  But not a lot.
If you have some Defense, you'll see a bit MORE benefit.
If you're just sub-capped Defense, you actually see most of the benefit.

If you're already capped-plus, you don't really necessarily see a lot, though it will help keep your enemy's ToHit floored out as much as possible.  But actual benefit is terribly situational.

[Luminara]

26 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I think this is the issue: where are you getting these numbers from? I'd be very interested in knowing that.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.interface_silent.to_hit_debuff&at=arachnos_soldier

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.interface_silent.resistance_debuff&at=arachnos_soldier

 

I've selected Arachnos Soldier for expediency, the effects don't vary by archetype.  When you open those pages, you'll note three icons to the far right.

 

The first indicates collective stacking, which means up to four different sources can stack the effect.  Sources being, in this context, other players.  If you're teamed and a bunch of you are using the same Interface, it will stack up to 4x.  The benefit in teaming is faster stacking.

 

The second icon says the power also stacks for the character, up to four times.  So if you're solo, you can still stack them 4x.  Takes longer by your lonesome (depending on build, of course), but the end result is the same as you'd have in a team, four stacks of the effect.

 

The third is a standard restriction on non-slottable powers, like temp powers, and all -Res.  Some things just aren't allowed to be enhanced or buffed, even with global boosts.  Interface effects fall under that rule.

 

4 stacks of Reactive, 10%.  4 stacks of Diamagnetic, 20%.  Purple patch and special Resistances (such as AV Resistances) apply, of course, so fighting +X foes and/or superior foes reduces the net effect by the appropriate amount.

 

All of the Interface powers are set up this way.  The DoTs can stack up to 8 times, debuffs and controls stack up to 4 times, solo or teamed.

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

thanks for the explanation but I'm confused by this: https://gyazo.com/5f93d6b2054317d663d820898b3d0995

 

It seems to indicate that it's PVP only. I could be reading it wrong in which case I'd suggest CoD2's layout is counter intuitive?

 

If that is the case though, is there no benefit in PVE?

[Uun]

47 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

It seems to indicate that it's PVP only. I could be reading it wrong in which case I'd suggest CoD2's layout is counter intuitive?

I think it's a formatting error in CoD. The effects for all the Interface powers show as PVP only and that isn't the case. While it's harder to see with something like Diamagnetic, the DoTs clearly work in PVE as you can see the orange numbers. While not as detailed as CoD, this page provides a good summary of what all the Interface powers do:

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Interface_Slot_Abilities

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that stacking is from all sources, including teammates and leaguemates. The debuffs can stack up to 4x, while the DoTs can stack up to 8x. If you solo, that's largely a non-issue, but if you team it can be, particularly against AVs. Reactive core (-res) and Degenerative core (-hp) are very popular, so it's quite possible these will cap on a full team (on a league it's almost certain). Because of this, I often craft one of the higher damage DoTs. (Reactive (fire), Spectral (neg) and Preemptive (en) do 5 ticks of 13.3862 damage, while Cognitive (psi) and Degenerative (tox) do 5 ticks of 10.709 damage.)

 

 

[Luminara]

6 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

thanks for the explanation but I'm confused by this: https://gyazo.com/5f93d6b2054317d663d820898b3d0995

 

It seems to indicate that it's PVP only. I could be reading it wrong in which case I'd suggest CoD2's layout is counter intuitive?

 

If that is the case though, is there no benefit in PVE?

 

The PvP flag is there so the granted powers aren't granted to critters or objects.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.interface.reactive_core_flawless_interface&at=arachnos_soldier

 

This is the primary Interface power for Reactive Core Flawless.  As before, I've selected Arachnos Soldier so the data is legible, any archetype can be selected and the same information will be displayed.

As you see, this power functions in both PvE and PvP, and what it does is grant other powers to the player character.  That's all it does.  It has no direct effect on enemies, it doesn't do "what it says on the tin", it just checks for successful rolls and grants powers to the player character.  Granting those powers to critters would result in a 2.5% -Res or Fire DoT being added to their attacks, so the PvP flag acts as a constraint to prevent that.  The stacking rules and net effects are applicable in both PvE and PvP.

 

It's not wrong, nor are you misreading it, it's just a matter of understanding the mechanics.  City of Data can't make it more intuitive without deliberately obfuscating the information, and that's not what we want from that source.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I have a lot to learn and to understand  - but thankyou for the explanation.

 

So... to distill this down to its essence, as I understand it (I still may not, fully so please bear with me and correct any errors)

 

If I took Diamagnetic, it gives me -5% to hit on my opponents - of itself not very much, that's one attack in 20 that won't hit but it can stack up to 4 times in a team and that becomes significant -20% so one in five attacks will fail effectively.

 

I'm going to muddy the waters further by quoting this example:

 

100% chance

 

 

• • 
    13.3862 points of Fire damage (all affected targets) every 1.0s for 4.3s (0.0% chance)

     

• •  

if !target.isFriend? && (@ForceHit || (@ToHitRoll < @ToHit))

 

 

(I appreciate we've not spoken about Interface Reactive at this stage)

 

My question here is about the timing - it does damage every single second for 4.3 seconds. so it does 4 ticks. Why does it have an additional 0.3 seconds to its timing? I don't see the recharge time there but my presumption would be that even if it had a recharge time of 4.3 seconds it would have a minimum cast time and so it can still only tick 4 times in a single cycle.

 

 

[tidge]

Interface is probably the Incarnate Slot that I craft the most different abilities for (on any given character), but I have to admit I don't really pay enough attention to what I'm doing.

 

Even though I am a fan of adding -Res whenever possible, the "Resistance resists resistable resistance debuffs" always confuses me. I usually have Reactive on characters with AoE that don't have (easily) boostable damage, just to try to speed up defeats of scrubs.

 

For characters that I take against GMs and AVs, I usually have Degenerative slotted for the MaxHP debuff.  I could be wrong, but I have a vague memory that the -MaxHP is better (solo) against big sacks of HP than the -Regen from Diamagnetic. Maybe I leaned into it because teammates were typically using the other?

 

After those, I usually just fool around with the other ones. Since interface is "always on", I usually craft more of those.

 

[Luminara]

40 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

My question here is about the timing - it does damage every single second for 4.3 seconds. so it does 4 ticks. Why does it have an additional 0.3 seconds to its timing?

 

To account for Arcanatime (server cycles).  All continuing powers, even auto powers, have a brief overlap period to ensure that they persist or complete their effects.

 

The DoT would be 5 ticks, first at 0.132 second (a single server cycle), then at 1.132s, a third at 2.132s, the fourth at 3.132s, and the final tick at 4.132s.  The DoT is then canceled before the next tick can occur.

[Bionic_Flea]

I tend to go reactive or degen the most as you get additional damage AND some bonus damage in the form of -MaxHP or -res.  As tidge says, Reactive's -res tends to be better for clearing crowds of scrubs and Degenerative is better for big sacks of HP like AVs and GMs.

 

I have added Diamagnetic to dark blast characters and especially defenders and corrupters that also do some -regen so that I can stack both effects to help the team and myself.

 

I like Spectral on controllers.  It adds immobilization, which triggers extra containment damage, and negative damage, which isn't wildly resisted.  It's not picked as often as the three above so that's beneficial for stacking a variety of effects, especially on Leagues.  And I usually pair that with Control Core Hybrid, which grants an extra mag of control and bonus psi damage to controlled enemies.

 

Preemptive I have used on characters that I want to be sappers.  I tried Gravitic on a gravity controller just based on theme and it really did slow critters down to a crawl.  I could also see using the radial branch on a /cold or /poison to stack on top of Benumb and Weaken.

 

I have tried cognitive several times and am always disappointed.  It rarely if ever confuses anything and the psi damage is less than other DoTs.  If you use it to stay on a psi theme you are waaaaaay better off going with any other DoT as everything that resists psi resists it A LOT (like all robots and there are lots of bots at 50).

 

I don't think I have ever used Paralytic.  The only use I have for -defense is to slot an Achilles - res proc and Interface can't do that.  Well, that and Paragon Protectors going godmode -- but you are better off killing them fast than hoping you got enough -def on them.  I could, perhaps, see combining the -dam with the - dam in Void Judgment.  But at level 50, especially on teams, I much prefer more damage to more survivability.

[InvaderStych]

Here's the thing. Interface effects stack collectively, and have a stack limit of 4 for the effect and 8 for the DoT (iirc).  "Everyone" takes Degenerative or Reactive with outlier exceptions.  On a full team it is not that big of a deal. 8 Reactives are still doing a full stack of DoT, and the team is only missing out on 1/2 of potential debuff effects.  4 Reactives and 4 Degeneratives would be a better composition in that case.

 

 

 

Where it gets hairy is on a League.  Very easy to hit those stack limits.

 

To that end I've been looking towards variety in Interface.

 

Let's also talk Gravitic.  If a build is already leveraging -spd/-rech in any way at all, it is worth carrying the ... er ... Core side, iirc, I'd have to look at my toon again as one of your Interface options.  It is very effective.

 

Spectral, on the other hand, well, too early to tell.  Early on it seems to be either broken or too unreliable to actually immobilize anything. Mag 2 stacking should do it, but with the 5% chance I've currently slotted (and it looks like the graphic effect is there when the DoT hits so difficult to measure if it is just one or both taking effect) it is highly unlikely to stack at the moment.  (see double edit below) Spectral on this toon was more about damage type than secondary effect though.

 

And that is another consideration.  Minor Toxic sounds great, but critters resist Toxic a great deal more than we tend to think.

 

Edit: I know that being concerned about interface stacking limits on a full league is picking at the infinitesimally smallest of nits. Sometimes when I learn a thing my brain won't let me un-learn it and the knowledge gives me a twitch when I ignore it.

 

🤣

 

Double Edit:

 

20 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I like Spectral on controllers.  It adds immobilization, which triggers extra containment damage, and negative damage, which isn't wildly resisted.  It's not picked as often as the three above so that's beneficial for stacking a variety of effects, especially on Leagues.  And I usually pair that with Control Core Hybrid, which grants an extra mag of control and bonus psi damage to controlled enemies.

 

Hmm. So it does work.

Edited January 14, 2023 by InvaderStych

[Scarlet Shocker]

35 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

To account for Arcanatime (server cycles).  All continuing powers, even auto powers, have a brief overlap period to ensure that they persist or complete their effects.

 

The DoT would be 5 ticks, first at 0.132 second (a single server cycle), then at 1.132s, a third at 2.132s, the fourth at 3.132s, and the final tick at 4.132s.  The DoT is then canceled before the next tick can occur.

 

 

That helps! Again, thanks

[Aracknight]

I really like Diamagnetic.  I main an MA/SR scrapper and the -regen and -to hit it gives me makes it easy and safe to take on pretty much anything, AVs, GMs, whatever.  It can take some time, but it's the "safe road" for me.  I typically run around right above the soft cap (45.8ish%) and then let Diamagnetic Interface take care of the rest in incarnate content, which it does well.

 

That said, Degenerative is king when it comes to knocking things down.  It goes much faster with degenerative, in my experience, but you don't get the -to-hit debuff that Diamagnetic lays down.

 

To sum up:  My personal experience says that for the solo hero fighting av's and gm's and pylons, Diamagnetic is slow but adds survivability, while Degenerative is fast and doesn't.

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Aracknight said:

To sum up:  My personal experience says that for the solo hero fighting av's and gm's and pylons, Diamagnetic is slow but adds survivability, while Degenerative is fast and doesn't.

A lvl 54 AV has 87% resistance to -tohit and -regen. At the 4-stack maximum, you're only getting 2.6% -tohit and 5.2% -regen. While Diamagnetic can increase your safety vs. regular mobs, it does virtually nothing vs. AVs.

[Aracknight]

1 minute ago, Uun said:

A lvl 54 AV has 87% resistance to -tohit and -regen. At the 4-stack maximum, you're only getting 2.6% -tohit and 5.2% -regen. While Diamagnetic can increase your safety vs. regular mobs, it does virtually nothing vs. AVs.

My favorite part is where my clearly stated personal experience was slashed through and invalidated.  Thanks.

[Jacke]

On 1/14/2023 at 1:37 PM, Luminara said:

The PvP flag is there so the granted powers aren't granted to critters or objects.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.interface.reactive_core_flawless_interface&at=arachnos_soldier

 

This is the primary Interface power for Reactive Core Flawless.  As before, I've selected Arachnos Soldier so the data is legible, any archetype can be selected and the same information will be displayed.

As you see, this power functions in both PvE and PvP, and what it does is grant other powers to the player character.  That's all it does.  It has no direct effect on enemies, it doesn't do "what it says on the tin", it just checks for successful rolls and grants powers to the player character.  Granting those powers to critters would result in a 2.5% -Res or Fire DoT being added to their attacks, so the PvP flag acts as a constraint to prevent that.  The stacking rules and net effects are applicable in both PvE and PvP.

 

It's not wrong, nor are you misreading it, it's just a matter of understanding the mechanics.  City of Data can't make it more intuitive without deliberately obfuscating the information, and that's not what we want from that source.

 

I understand what you're saying.  But that use of the PvP flag at this power linked in your link above is just wrong.

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.interface_silent.resistance_debuff&at=arachnos_soldier

 

Limiting where the buff goes should be done at the first link by saying where the power applies.

 

But if this is the way the game does this, I'm not that surprised.  Sheesh.

 

BTW, on the first link and for other Interfaces, it is also flagged "Ignores Resistance".  That to me would say the power is applied without being debuffed by the Purple Patch.

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, Jacke said:

BTW, on the first link and for other Interfaces, it is also flagged "Ignores Resistance".  That to me would say the power is applied without being debuffed by the Purple Patch.

 

That's not what that flag means.  It prevents your character from resisting the granted powers.  It has nothing to do with Resistance, the buff, or -Resistance, the debuff.

[Ukase]

On 1/13/2023 at 5:16 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

But my question remains: Interface's general flexibility suggests it should work fitting any power to any AT - depending on what you wish to achieve. If that is true, you potentially have a great deal of scope as a player - but do you really or do we find we funnel into a few choices?

More often than not, the circles I travel in lean towards -HP (Degenerative) or Reactive (-dam resistance). 
Now, I am only trusting that @Caddaric has some inside knowledge, because the game itself doesn't say so anywhere in any description that I've encountered, and the "pearl" was that only 5 interfaces will work on a given target at a time. So, it can pay to have some folks with t-3 and some with t-4, because they are essentially classed as different interfaces. Or, some with radial, and others with core. Either way, they'd be different. 

I have used Cognitive - and it works well, but it doesn't (anecdotal evidence only) work long enough to sit back and watch the carnage. They don't stay confused long enough to take any of the npcs out as I recall. (it's been since live, and while I am not "old", I certainly am older and may be having some sort of perception bias) A quick trip to brainstorm could show you. 

I've also used Spectral, and noted it worked because of the immobilization. If it weren't for my experimenting with these options, I'd be hard pressed to verify that these work in any fashion at all. There's probably some element of proof in the combat logs, but things process so fast in there, I'd have a rough time proving it. 

Still, I find most characters will choose something to strengthen what their positive attributes are. Farmers, for example, would routinely get reactive. My ice blaster would use degenerative for something like a Magi, but ordinarily would get Gravatic to aid in slowing the recharge. It's really difficult to know how well it works. Confusion, Immobilization, a tiny degree of endurance drain -- those are things I can see. But a -recharge is tough to see. Facing an NPC, outside of Elite Bosses and AVs, they don't last long enough to tell. And EBs and AVs are generally too resistance to such things. 

So, ultimately, unless it's a specific purpose like a RHW badge, it doesn't matter to me. 

[High_Beam]

This sounds like Mork From Ork trying to describe sex.  Or maybe Demolition Man. 

[Hyperstrike]

37 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

This sounds like Mork From Ork trying to describe sex.  Or maybe Demolition Man. 

Z-bah!