Incarnates

[hakurr]

so just a question is there any planes to introduce the rest of the incarnates there were 4 more in incarnates to unlock in the works before shut down. 

[FupDup]

Adding additional tiers of incarnate powers would trivialize the level 45+ content even more than it already has been, and would likely require a rebalancing of hardmode content to account for them. So...probably not. 

 

I would however like to see additional incarnate powers within the existing tiers we already have, which would be a horizontal power expansion rather than vertical. 

[Snarky]

We can always dream.  But the fact that the Homecoming Devs keep greasing the wheels and even adding parts to the old steamboat is really more than we could have hoped for.

 

The further tiers (as I understand it) were to be in conjunction with harder Incarnate Trials.  Those stories....would need to be expanded, along with writing full trials.  Then the powers would need to be coded. and bolted on.  and tested. 

 

While I personally do not like the Aeon, or the 4 star ITF I definitely appreciate the quality of the work. For the Homecoming team to tackle the above project seems like a lot. They would never publish it as a mediocre thing. Seems like a very big wall.

[hakurr]

I was just wondering I know it is not like they just flip a switch. And I do believe they have done a wonderful job so far of adding to the game and keeping everything running.

[Greycat]

No, there are no plans about adding the rest of the incarnate powers. We only have (scant) information about *one* of the next tier of powers (Genesis, which put down AOE debuff patches,) and the names of some of the others.

 

The incarnate powers, frankly, are a bolted on mess meant - on live - to create a "Pay the subscription!" grind. Thus having a special currency for Alpha (Shards,) Threads and Incarnate XP - separated into physical and psychic - for each side of the tree we have now, which were only obtainable in specific trials (for instance, Lore might get Psychic XP for doing TPN, but the other side would get nothing.) The next tree would have its *own* types of Advanced Incarnate XP, and its *own* salvage to deal with (like the repurposed Transcendant merits,) and so on.

 

That system can stay *just* where it is, frankly (better yet, get rid of shards to remove one MORE extremely-limited-use currency.)

[Mjolnerd]

9 minutes ago, Greycat said:

... Incarnate XP - separated into physical and psychic - for each side of the tree we have now, which were only obtainable in specific trials (for instance, Lore might get Psychic XP for doing TPN, but the other side would get nothing.) The next tree would have its *own* types of Advanced Incarnate XP, and its *own* salvage to deal with (like the repurposed Transcendant merits,) and so on.

 

That system can stay *just* where it is, frankly (better yet, get rid of shards to remove one MORE extremely-limited-use currency.)

 

I'm all for eliminating currency types; we have way too many already, most of them do almost nothing, and we certainly don't need new ones (Prismatic Aether Particles, I'm looking at you).

 

I would like to see the separation of Incarnate XP types make a comeback, though. I can't even remember the last time I saw someone recruiting for any iTrial besides a BAF or the very (very, very, very) occasional DD. I think once someone got a LAM going? I legitimately might not have ever seen someone even attempt to put together a Keyes or TPN even one time since Homecoming launched. Nobody has any reason to form (or join, before anyone jumps in with a "why don't you organize them yourself?") anything but BAF after BAF after BAF these days. The "anything you do provides Incarnate XP for everything" approach made sense when the entire "community" consisted of like six people, but now that HC is "public" and has enough players to actually form iTrials, it's limiting things and making the game smaller.

[Snarky]

19 minutes ago, Mjolnerd said:

 

I'm all for eliminating currency types; we have way too many already, most of them do almost nothing, and we certainly don't need new ones (Prismatic Aether Particles, I'm looking at you).

 

I would like to see the separation of Incarnate XP types make a comeback, though. I can't even remember the last time I saw someone recruiting for any iTrial besides a BAF or the very (very, very, very) occasional DD. I think once someone got a LAM going? I legitimately might not have ever seen someone even attempt to put together a Keyes or TPN even one time since Homecoming launched. Nobody has any reason to form (or join, before anyone jumps in with a "why don't you organize them yourself?") anything but BAF after BAF after BAF these days. The "anything you do provides Incarnate XP for everything" approach made sense when the entire "community" consisted of like six people, but now that HC is "public" and has enough players to actually form iTrials, it's limiting things and making the game smaller.

Definitely DO NOT separate the incarnate exp.  I have gotten over half the Master Incarnate Trial badges on my 50 (50d sometime late Jan) and that is ALL through PUGs.  Just jumping into whatever.  The leagues are out there....for now.

[Captain Fabulous]

34 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Definitely DO NOT separate the incarnate exp.  I have gotten over half the Master Incarnate Trial badges on my 50 (50d sometime late Jan) and that is ALL through PUGs.  Just jumping into whatever.  The leagues are out there....for now.

Yeah, it's just not necessary. With the added difficulty settings I don't have any problems with them expanding the Incarnate system if they choose to do so. Since it's already fairly easy to make any AT godly and unkillable all the belly-aching and hand-wringing over power creep just isn't warranted. If you're already unkillable at the highest difficulty what does it matter if you're 20% more unkillable? On the flip side it gives those level 50s something to work towards and use up their surplus threads. It also provides an agnostic path to increased power that doesn't rely upon crafting expensive IO sets, which already heavily favors die-hard players over casual ones.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Mjolnerd said:

 

I would like to see the separation of Incarnate XP types make a comeback, though. I can't even remember the last time I saw someone recruiting for any iTrial besides a BAF or the very (very, very, very) occasional DD.

 

I see them frequently.  Everlasting runs through quite a bit.

 

And no, I'd hate to see the split iXP come back. It was nothing but an annoyance and a "come pay to grind" addon.

[Zect]

Additional incarnate powers would only be a positive thing if they are exclusive with current incarnate slots. So e.g. you could have either genesis or destiny, but not both (slotting one power would unslot the other). That would at least have the potential to create interesting tradeoffs and new, refreshing playstyles, while not contributing to power creep.

[Clave Dark 5]

12 hours ago, hakurr said:

so just a question is there any planes to introduce the rest of the incarnates there were 4 more in incarnates to unlock in the works before shut down. 

God I hope not.  Incarnate stuff muddled character themes, was limiting the game, was poorly implemented, encourages the usual cookie-cutter building, blah blah blah. 

 

Yes, I didn't like it and barely deal with it these days too.  😃

[Scarlet Shocker]

Personally I'd like to see the entire Incarnates system done away with in its entirety, though I'd be ok with keeping the Itrials, even if slightly detuned to cope wtih the lack of slot boosts/level shifts. Except the execrable pile of repetitive dogshit that is TPN which can go do one. Preferably in @Snarky's crypt where it will never see the light of day again.

 

 

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Personally I'd like to see the entire Incarnates system done away with in its entirety, though I'd be ok with keeping the Itrials, even if slightly detuned to cope wtih the lack of slot boosts/level shifts. Except the execrable pile of repetitive dogshit that is TPN which can go do one. Preferably in @Snarky's crypt where it will never see the light of day again.

 

 

I have enough bodies down there.  Find another hiding spot.  

[Mezmera]

I for one would like to see the last 4 incarnate powers introduced along with some more itrials to warrant their introduction.  Once introduced it would be easy for a lot of people to instantly build their t4's which might take a little shine off of them so the t4 Very Rare salvage I'd only like to see get rewarded from any new itrials.  

 

Another thing though is that the devs are doing a good job of compensating for how much stronger you get with all of you and your teams incarnates so it might be tough with their current Hard Mode to compensate for additional incarnate powers.  So it would have to be something where these last 4 that would get added would need to make you choose which can be active.  

 

It would be something where you would align the powers next to the current tiers and select which of them is active.  For instance you could only have one of the Alpha or Omega active, then there'd be the Interface, Judgement and then a new power in that row and you could only have 2 of the 3 active, same with the Destiny and Lore row and Hybrid.  That way if they make some new great incarnates by having them it just doesn't make all of their new stuff they are creating obsolete because you would have to lose either the Lore or Destiny spot which are both some real powerful powers.  

Edited March 20, 2023 by Mezmera

[High_Beam]

I know a guy

55 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I have enough bodies down there.  Find another hiding spot.  

I know a guy who knows a guy in Jersey who might be able to help you out.  He's what they call a sanitation engineer if you know what I mean.

[StrikerFox]

The new incarnates alone I can do without. If they came with new itrials and that Battalion storyline, I'd be all for it.

[biostem]

I would rather we be given more options within the various incarnate categories we already have.  For instance, I'd love to see some lore options, which while not as powerful, can accompany you permanently.

[tidge]

I appreciate the Homecoming modifications of the Incarnate system, but it was such a clumsy addition to the original game that I wouldn't miss Incarnates if they went away entirely. There are some arcs/missions that I'd miss, and I deeply appreciate that the near-triviality of Incarnate powers make rewards (HO, DSyncs) much easier to accumulate.

 

I know how I come by my dislike of the Incarnate system:

• I miss Dark Astoria as it used to be, in non-echo form. The Incarnate replacement's story-focus on depression and rage just rubs me the wrong way.
• I hated the Live mechanism of accumulating assorted "Incarnate XP", so much that it left a terrible taste in my mouth.

The HC team's implementations (especially with how easy it is to equip characters, with and without using the Auction House, including catalysts and boosters) has already raised the ceiling on individual characters' ability to handle very difficult content. I don't know why we'd want more player buffs instead of more variety in the rest of the game.

[Snarky]

33 minutes ago, tidge said:

I appreciate the Homecoming modifications of the Incarnate system, but it was such a clumsy addition to the original game that I wouldn't miss Incarnates if they went away entirely. There are some arcs/missions that I'd miss, and I deeply appreciate that the near-triviality of Incarnate powers make rewards (HO, DSyncs) much easier to accumulate.

 

I know how I come by my dislike of the Incarnate system:

• I miss Dark Astoria as it used to be, in non-echo form. The Incarnate replacement's story-focus on depression and rage just rubs me the wrong way.
• I hated the Live mechanism of accumulating assorted "Incarnate XP", so much that it left a terrible taste in my mouth.

The HC team's implementations (especially with how easy it is to equip characters, with and without using the Auction House, including catalysts and boosters) has already raised the ceiling on individual characters' ability to handle very difficult content. I don't know why we'd want more player buffs instead of more variety in the rest of the game.

When I can Nuke Tank a 4 star Aeon Kill All Badge Run on a Blaster....it MIGHT be enough.  probably not.

[Techwright]

On 3/19/2023 at 2:35 PM, FupDup said:

Adding additional tiers of incarnate powers would trivialize the level 45+ content even more than it already has been, and would likely require a rebalancing of hardmode content to account for them. So...probably not. 

 

I would however like to see additional incarnate powers within the existing tiers we already have, which would be a horizontal power expansion rather than vertical. 

That or to phase out the Incarnate mess, a fair exchange that increases our thematic powers, like unlocking a 7th or even eventually 8th slot on a limited number of powers.  Just the 7th alone could create some interesting possibilities with sets.  I don't recall what they were, but over a year back, I'd figured out a few other possibilities that could be used besides just slots.

[Judasace]

IMO they should only add them if they add a new and more difficult content for them. Just adding them in with only what's already there seems like just overkill.

[Scarlet Shocker]

14 hours ago, tidge said:

I appreciate the Homecoming modifications of the Incarnate system, but it was such a clumsy addition to the original game that I wouldn't miss Incarnates if they went away entirely. There are some arcs/missions that I'd miss, and I deeply appreciate that the near-triviality of Incarnate powers make rewards (HO, DSyncs) much easier to accumulate.

 

I know how I come by my dislike of the Incarnate system:

• I miss Dark Astoria as it used to be, in non-echo form. The Incarnate replacement's story-focus on depression and rage just rubs me the wrong way.
• I hated the Live mechanism of accumulating assorted "Incarnate XP", so much that it left a terrible taste in my mouth.

The HC team's implementations (especially with how easy it is to equip characters, with and without using the Auction House, including catalysts and boosters) has already raised the ceiling on individual characters' ability to handle very difficult content. I don't know why we'd want more player buffs instead of more variety in the rest of the game.

 

Some of the content is a qualified "ok" - some is complete dogshit. I don't mind the new Dark Astoria per se - there's a tradition of horror themes in superhero comicdom which I think it reflects well but why it had to be a revamped DA instead of an entirely new zone and villain group I do not fathom. The BP were interesting enough as they were - why reinvent the wheel?

 

I completely agree about the mess of the various incarnate rewards - but I find incarnate rewards now are often easier to achieve than the merits to build your main powers, so it cheapens the achievement even more.

 

Given my way I'd scrap incarnate powers entirely (or reduce their power significantly) and rebalance the incarnate content to reflect that. It's not like we actually need more powers in this game. Perhaps more variance - but as implemented it kind of funnels characters from specialists to the median

[El D]

12 hours ago, Judasace said:

IMO they should only add them if they add a new and more difficult content for them. Just adding them in with only what's already there seems like just overkill.

 

This is my thought on it as well - if new Incarnate options are put in, they're going to need even higher tier content to be used in. That's already kind of the route being taken with introduction of Hard Mode, which has definitely expanded the range for incarnate level content a fair amount between boosted versions of older content and outright new stuff. Theoretically it could also allow room for new Incarnate options, but the quibble there is... Hard Mode is also currently balanced around just the five existing Incarnate slots/IO builds. Adding even more on top of it could possibly make it easier than intended, require that existing Hard Mode content be tweaked again every time a new Incarnate power was added, or at the extreme end introduce even more difficult 'Hard Mode+' to keep up. Which just circles back to the beginning of the whole 'iTrials/endgame content is too easy' issue once players unlock the newest powers for the umpteenth time (not to mention the fact that there's going to be a hefty amount of folks who won't ever even play the content or complain that it was made in the first place...).

 

I imagine that's why broadening the options was the focus with Hard Mode - adding it as an expansion of the plateau that is the existing endgame tier with a focus on badges/cosmetic rewards rather than any mechanical boosts was the only way to make new endgame content that didn't reintroduce that 'here's the next level, come back a pay more subscription money!' content spiral that Live was getting into before sunset. Which is a shame, because I bet the Homecoming team would have some pretty cool ideas on what to do with the rest of the Incarnate system. Maybe if another avenue for progression was figured out, though I'm not sure what that would be.

Edited March 22, 2023 by El D