Focused Feedback: Blast Power Set Updates

[EdgeOfDreams]

Add me to the list of players who would much rather have Aim instead of Beanbag.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Hey um at the risk of being destroyed....but considering the deficiencies that the changes to flamethrower are attempting to address: Is it possible for breath of fire/cold/toxic to get the same fixes considering they suffer from the same issues?

[Booper]

2 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Hey um at the risk of being destroyed....but considering the deficiencies that the changes to flamethrower are attempting to address: Is it possible for breath of fire/cold/toxic to get the same fixes considering they suffer from the same issues?

Not on this page, but you're not the only one who has made this suggestion. 

[WindDemon21]

6 hours ago, Booper said:

Not on this page, but you're not the only one who has made this suggestion. 

And TBQF, swap breath of fire for combustion on the non-tank melee's. Theme be damned, it just doesn't work with that narrow of a cone and short range. I know some want it for *theme*, but you know what, there are literally SIX other AT's that get fire breath, blaster, defender, corruptor, tank, and dominator. Don't ruin scrap/brute/stalker melee's aoe for such a dumb justification. FSC/breath is just NOT enough melee for the literal "damage" set, especially early on having to wait till tier 8 for an actual aoe. I'm running on 3 shelved fire melee scrappers that just DON'T work enough aoe to keep them going. Surprized this wasn't fixed on the last fire melee revamp.

 

Also please don't forget electron haze. DEFINITELY needs a faster cast time, and should also be 100% knockback. Should just be that fast two hand forward push animation that umbral torrent has. Even with a *technically* shaved animation on psynado, though it shares the same animation so at least that could be done for it, it just still *feels* really slow and like it should be something faster than that.

 

Don't forget Neurotoxic breath (though I'd assume poison SHOULD be getting a TA rework soon anyhow) and bile spray too.

 

I'd also echo the sentiment, that if we are unequivocally going to be stuck with will dom/dominate will at tier 1, then it NEEDS to reach the target faster, or just be insta-hit like the mind control version

Edited April 12, 2023 by WindDemon21

[FupDup]

Those powers really just need a cone angle increase to at least 45 degrees, then they'll be fine.

 

I wouldn't personally get mad at replacing them with other AOE's but other people might, as we've seen with Beanbag and Ignite. 

[csr]

Dark Blast / Abyssal Gaze's Hold component seems pretty pathetic at Scale 4.4.  At level 25 it barely lasts long enough on evens/+1s to cast Life Drain.  With 2 SOs of Recharge and Hold slotted I can't consistently maintain the Hold even on -2s.  The Devastation proc lasts longer than my 2 SO enhanced Hold.  I guess the Hold component is just there for procs.

[Wavicle]

20 minutes ago, csr said:

Dark Blast / Abyssal Gaze's Hold component seems pretty pathetic at Scale 4.4.  At level 25 it barely lasts long enough on evens/+1s to cast Life Drain.  With 2 SOs of Recharge and Hold slotted I can't consistently maintain the Hold even on -2s.  The Devastation proc lasts longer than my 2 SO enhanced Hold.  I guess the Hold component is just there for procs.

Think it’s there to detoggle hurricane, chill of the night, radiation infection, etc

[Captain Powerhouse]

Discussions of sets that are not part of the changes are off topic, please stay on topic.

[CrimsonSurge]

I don't think this has been discussed but I noticed that while Abyssal Gaze is having it's damage increased and hold duration decreased for Blasters, Corruptors  and Defenders. On a Sentinel they already did that amount of damage with the power and yet on the beta for some reason its having it's hold duration decreased for them like it is for the other ATs which is a direct nerf for Sentinel version of the power since it's not gaining anything in return, so I'm guessing it's a mistake or oversight.

[Captain Powerhouse]

10 minutes ago, CrimsonSurge said:

On a Sentinel they already did that amount of damage with the power and yet on the beta for some reason its having it's hold duration decreased for them like it is for the other ATs

 

Sentinel version was not changed, it was scale 4.4 hold for as long as Sentinels have existed.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Aim seems like a generic quick fix to beanbag tbh. how about a switch ammo power like dual pistols but instead of fire/ice/toxic AR would get elec/radioactive/Energy

Electricity would give added dmg to machines

Radioactive would lower targets defenses/Resistance (does not stack)

Energy would do additional damage to ghosts/spirits/undead

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Discussions of sets that are not part of the changes are off topic, please stay on topic.

I have a quick input/request to this. Before the changes are starting to get worked on for the next pages, could we, or is there a place I'm missing, to see the list of things being addressed?

 

Like the psynado cast time, so we can alternately add the suggestions in THERE first so they get worked on at the same time so part of the code (as i would imagine, but you know, spaghetti) can help save you guys time by working on similar items together? Like if fixing psynado cast, fix other powers with the same animation, and/or similar powers that relate to it etc?

 

Or if going to change beanbag to aim (while i think most agree aim is better), but then gives the people who want to keep beanbag, or find some other set fix like a follow-up type power instead?

 

Cause as of right now, I usually just see random, and sometimes duplicated individual threads, so it's hard to keep track, or actually know exactly what is being "currently" looked at for the next patch. so a Pre-"we're going to work on these things next" thread before actually starting to work on them can be done?

 

So: "These are what we are focusing on for next patch, here are our ideas" and then people can dissect initial thoughts of changes, and propose solutions before any actual work is being done?

[ScarySai]

38 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Aim seems like a generic quick fix to beanbag tbh. how about a switch ammo power like dual pistols but instead of fire/ice/toxic AR would get elec/radioactive/Energy

Electricity would give added dmg to machines

Radioactive would lower targets defenses/Resistance (does not stack)

Energy would do additional damage to ghosts/spirits/undead

 

Overly complicated solution to the problem of "Beanbag is bad and incompatible with AR." at the end of the day.

 

Aim is a simple fix that accomplishes the same end goal. Being 'generic' isn't a bad thing in and of itself.

[Puma]

OK, so hear me out. 
 
Instead of swapping Bean Bag for aim, give players a choice:  Target Lock or Stunning Rounds.   

 

Target Lock:  Aim, basically, with a -def proc to your attacks for 10 seconds.  If you take it, you get normal aim's Tohit and DMG boost,  and -def to your attacks, with a slightly longer recharge than regular aim.  Cool, and it makes AR fit with other weapons sets that give -def.  On a set like AR that would hardly be overpowered. 

Stunning Rounds:  When you activate stunning rounds, your attacks have a guaranteed stun affect for the next 10 seconds.  The duration of the stun depends on if it's an AoE or single target power.  Single target has longer duration than AoE.    So you can take that and instead of the added damage and -def boost of Target Lock you get some crowd control like bean bag, only better because it can be AoE for a short duration.     
 
Then have Ignite work this way:  If the foe you attack is suffering from -def, they panic, spreading the flames to others nearby (making it a splash damage AoE). If, they are stunned, they are unable to respond to the damaging flames and suffer additional damage over time. 
 
So the cottage rule is saved:  those who want Bean Bag's stun can have it.  Those who want aim's burst damage boost can have it.  Those who want keep ignites AoE affect can keep it, and those who want stronger single target damage can have it. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Puma

[FupDup]

Beanbag isn't even unique. There are lots of stuns in blast sets. BB just happens to be the worst of them. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by FupDup

[ScarySai]

22 minutes ago, FupDup said:

Beanbag isn't even unique. There are lots of stuns in blast sets. BB just happens to be the worst of them. 

Not even proccable like suppressive, to boot.

 

Sorry, I don't see the value of the stupefy proc in a set that already has the capability to permaknock whatever it's hitting. AR, unlike DP - also has good attacks now, so the need for a mez power is already hard to justify. Why mez an LT or boss when I can obliterate it with snipe, slug, incinerate and burst in no particular order while passively locking it down with knockdown?

Edited April 12, 2023 by ScarySai

[WindDemon21]

18 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Not even proccable like suppressive, to boot.

 

Sorry, I don't see the value of the stupefy proc in a set that already has the capability to permaknock whatever it's hitting. AR, unlike DP - also has good attacks now, so the need for a mez power is already hard to justify. Why mez an LT or boss when I can obliterate it with snipe, slug, incinerate and burst in no particular order while passively locking it down with knockdown?

Right exactly. On top of that, they don't (and really should get) a chance to stun proc in a stun set. It's even worse that that proc is knockback, and not knockdown, so it actively pulls me away from using that full set anyway due to that.

 

Always thought that is the best set to change that proc to work like OF, where it adds an extra stun chance or knockdown, and also converts kb-kd, so you can use the full set that way in powers like hand clap and lightning clap, and still help negate the KB. (and if it's the kd chance, another set should really have a chance to disorient proc so we can stack it in powers like you can with the lockdown proc in holds)

[WindDemon21]

32 minutes ago, Puma said:

OK, so hear me out. 
 
Instead of swapping Bean Bag for aim, give players a choice:  Target Lock or Stunning Rounds.   

 

Target Lock:  Aim, basically, with a -def proc to your attacks for 10 seconds.  If you take it, you get normal aim's Tohit and DMG boost,  and -def to your attacks, with a slightly longer recharge than regular aim.  Cool, and it makes AR fit with other weapons sets that give -def.  On a set like AR that would hardly be overpowered. 

Stunning Rounds:  When you activate stunning rounds, your attacks have a guaranteed stun affect for the next 10 seconds.  The duration of the stun depends on if it's an AoE or single target power.  Single target has longer duration than AoE.    So you can take that and instead of the added damage and -def boost of Target Lock you get some crowd control like bean bag, only better because it can be AoE for a short duration.     
 
Then have Ignite work this way:  If the foe you attack is suffering from -def, they panic, spreading the flames to others nearby (making it a splash damage AoE). If, they are stunned, they are unable to respond to the damaging flames and suffer additional damage over time. 
 
So the cottage rule is saved:  those who want Bean Bag's stun can have it.  Those who want aim's burst damage boost can have it.  Those who want keep ignites AoE affect can keep it, and those who want stronger single target damage can have it. 

I like the thinking here, though i'm not sure on anything that would be adding a longer recharge version unless it also lasts long enough to perma like soul drain/rage etc. Could be something that just adds the to hit and extra stun chances (with a longer guarantee on incinerator for example). This could also be a toggle with to hit and stun chances as well., similar to how swap ammon on DP changes the one power from a stun to hold, it could simply just add the stun to incinerator etc.

 

I definitely would not want a click power with short duration though just to grant the stun. Generally, when i'm going to use beanbag, i'm doing it cause i need to control, not cause I need to boost something (usually if BU is recharging to rather just kill them instead), in cases where you need to stun, and not waste time casting a power before it, or the power isn't recharged yet.

[ScarySai]

Ar has more than enough aoe, now that flamethrower doesn't take three hours to land anymore, and the oft forgotten grenade typing change made that power more palatable.

 

It's the single target that needs a bit of help, and incinerator being buffed a bit will likely address that, despite the giant step backward reverting aim is.

[Gobbledigook]

41 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Ar has more than enough aoe, now that flamethrower doesn't take three hours to land anymore, and the oft forgotten grenade typing change made that power more palatable.

 

It's the single target that needs a bit of help, and incinerator being buffed a bit will likely address that, despite the giant step backward reverting aim is.

"Aim" is so fitting For Assault rifle also with Sniper rifle. Beangag 'yuk' is hmmm......not so fitting.

[Ruin Mage]

AR is the only OG set without Aim.

Which isn't a good thing, but it's already been decided.

[ScarySai]

9 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

AR is the only OG set without Aim.

Which isn't a good thing, but it's already been decided.

Ideally, they reconsider.

 

But on the bright side, assault rifle will be in a much better spot, regardless of being saddled with a useless stun.

[Lithobraker]

For what it's worth, I think I'd much, much rather have Aim on Assault Rifle than a stun.

I'm not sure I understand why just a few complaints have locked in this decision when there are at least as many complaints on the opposite side, against reverting the Beanbag replacement.

Do you have any plans to make some sort of change that eliminates the need for Aim...? A stacking buff mechanic giving accuracy and damage could work without taking up a power slot.

[WindDemon21]

57 minutes ago, Lithobraker said:

For what it's worth, I think I'd much, much rather have Aim on Assault Rifle than a stun.

I'm not sure I understand why just a few complaints have locked in this decision when there are at least as many complaints on the opposite side, against reverting the Beanbag replacement.

Do you have any plans to make some sort of change that eliminates the need for Aim...? A stacking buff mechanic giving accuracy and damage could work without taking up a power slot.

I like this, especially with most of the aoes being cones, and being dumbly 10 targets. It at least means, you won't do as much damage in the alpha with aim and a higher target cap, but more overall in the long run. TBH, even if this takes the place of aim as an autopower similar to RFTL but instead of a one time buff, it builds up like current defiance.

[oldskool]

RE: Psy Blast --- Sentinel (fairly short, largely positive run down)

 

Pros: 

• Psionic Strike shifts to being more of the cornerstone single-target power it really should have been from the start. On Live, there could be situations in builds (i.e., extreme recharge and optimization effort) where Scramble Thoughts overshadows Psionic Strike. Additionally, this priority conflict could muck with lower level builds or exemplar for older content. Removing Scramble Thoughts from the equation helps Psionic Strike. 
• Multiple AoE options *and* their cast time is reduced. I know it is very popular to beat down Sentinels on per-activation damage of their AoE. They just don't have the spike potential. However, this particular kit now has 3 AoE options which goes a long way towards its team contribution and smooths out some rough edges even soloing. Nice!

Cons: 

• Elevating Psionic Strike by nerfing Scramble Thoughts is a double edge sword. However, the number of players this negatively impacts is probably incredibly tiny as ST's largest impact involves the extreme end of the optimization spectrum. Still, this change is going to force some folks to change up how they approach Psy Blast for better and for worse. 
• Mental Blast still feels like a terrible power choice.