cronus Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Just out of curiosity, can anyone name an example from comics of a super reflexes tank? I have racked my brain (which admittedly doesn't work as well as it used to), and I couldn't think of any. Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarky Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, cronus said: Just out of curiosity, can anyone name an example from comics of a super reflexes tank? I have racked my brain (which admittedly doesn't work as well as it used to), and I couldn't think of any. Thanks for your help! The closest example that comes to mind is .... Superman. (But he has all the powers) You regularly see him dodging punches and things in superfast mode. But a Tank that ONLY has SR? Tough to recall on my old vamp memory banks. Although some Supernatural creatures may come closer to that way of being invulnerable than most golden age supers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveevil2000 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 I think it would depend on your definition of "Tank" If Tank means strong, then I can think of quite a few stronger than normal superheroes with super reflexes. Spiderman, Black Panther, Beast (x-men), Kraven the Hunter, Deathstroke all fit the bill, although an argument can be made for scrapper. I think CoH defines a Tank as a character that can go toe to toe due in great part to their defenses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 That is a good question and kinda odd cause I'm workin on a SR/SJ tank. I honestly can think of anyone other than what @Snarky had said. Superman would of been my first and only pick. @Etched 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveevil2000 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Since Superman has superspeed, I think his super reflexes are more a result of his super speed and not really an agility thing. Although since he is super man he probably has super agility too ... matter of fact, he has super EVERYTHING. So he can do everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperStone Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 The Hulk has caught Quicksilver(early on) and missiles in midair. Thoughts on Spiderman or Beast.... are they more Scrappers? 3 /e poofgone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeraphimKensai Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) Spiderman due to agility/spider sense. Batman and family due to extensive martial arts training. They get hurt if they get hit so they dodge a lot. Goku in Ultra Instinct. Any speedster. I mean Wally West perceives Attoseconds so a punch to him is like taking a whole year for it to reach it's destination. Edited October 4, 2023 by SeraphimKensai 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveevil2000 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Just now, JasperStone said: The Hulk has caught Quicksilver(early on) and missiles in midair. Thoughts on Spiderman or Beast.... are they more Scrappers? My thoughts were the same. The Hulk does have extremely quick reflexes, but when it comes down to it, he is more known for his ability to take and shrug off massive hits. Spiderman and Beast also have enhanced durability and yes they are "scrappy". I think the problem is the term "Tank" it has a armored invulnerability connotation to it, so it doesnt lend itself to SR. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, cronus said: can anyone name an example from comics of a super reflexes tank? IMO, a "tank" is really the one who gets the attention of enemies and keeps them on him or her in order to protect their teammates. What happens once they get that attention and how they handle things is where the super reflexes come into play. As others have mentioned, Spiderman is a good example of someone with extreme agility, who also excels at getting an enemy's attention. Generally speaking, though, comic book characters tend to be more multi-role as the situation needs it; Wolverine can tank, he can scrap, he can stalk. Heck, the Invisible Woman can tank periodically, (though it tends to wear her down quickly). There have even been instances where Batman has gotten the attention of enemies to aid an ally, and relied upon his agility to keep from getting plastered. The Martian Manhunter can distract enemies then rely on his phasing to avoid attacks as well. One important point is to not get hung up on what a power set is called, but instead look at what it does and how it functions. "Defense" in CoH can be just as much about having a really powerful forcefield or strong armor that prevents attacks from reaching you as it can be about extreme agility. Edited October 4, 2023 by biostem 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarky Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 I think the major issue we are all dancing around is that "in game" or "in fiction....comic/movies/books" SR (defense) makes for an inevitably horrid outcome for any Tank at a certain point. You WILL eventually get hit, unless you are Domino. (who cleverly does not tank) If SR if your Big Power and you have little else you WILL be in der krankenhaus....erm, the hospital. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreah Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 I suspect it's hard to find iconic examples of this because the MMO "Tank" role is artificial. Well-written enemies in comic books or elsewhere aren't stupid enough to only focus on the tough hero that can't really hurt them much and ignore the truly dangerous foes right there too. It takes an game mob AI to be that dumb. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperStone Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Thank you for this thread, I have appreciated doing a small deep dive. So... Luke Cage/Ben GrimmI think, come close to our version of Tanks ... definitely not gifted with SR though Jessica Jones? Can I throw in ROM the Space Knight? /e poofgone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheZag Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 He is more a meme hero, but One Punch Man certainly looked like super reflexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psi-bolt Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 I'm going to go with an old anime character, Ranma Saotome. https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Ranma_Saotome#Physical_Abilities Ranma is a martial artist who like many anime protagonists has abilities that cross into the superhuman. As the main character, he definitely draws his share of attention and has "tanked" for many of the support cast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyajinzoningen Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 how about Vision from marvel? since he can control his molecular structure he's very durable and can tank hits he can phase to dodge/avoid attacks he is also quite fast basically his defensive capabilities far outstrip his offensive ones. Its easy to criticize a suggestion but can you suggest an alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarky Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 1 hour ago, JasperStone said: Thank you for this thread, I have appreciated doing a small deep dive. So... Luke Cage/Ben GrimmI think, come close to our version of Tanks ... definitely not gifted with SR though Jessica Jones? Can I throw in ROM the Space Knight? I love me some Jessica Jones. the live action TV character rocks. But Jessica is defintely way more scrapper. a SS scrapper that uses shock and awe to get through opponents. No real armor or defenses to speak of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasperStone Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Snarky said: I love me some Jessica Jones. the live action TV character rocks. But Jessica is defintely way more scrapper. a SS scrapper that uses shock and awe to get through opponents. No real armor or defenses to speak of. Agreed ...kinda where I was. ... They did Hellcat all sorts of wrong 1 /e poofgone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreah Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Snarky said: But Jessica is defintely way more scrapper. Concur. The first time I saw the show, I was sure she was a scrapper. And Luke is sort of a tank, just not SR, more Inv. Maybe he's more brute, because he's not very aggressive until you get him upset. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go0gleplex Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Plastic Man. The guy's virtually indestructible even if he does bend and dodge a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Shocker Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 6 hours ago, cronus said: Just out of curiosity, can anyone name an example from comics of a super reflexes tank? I have racked my brain (which admittedly doesn't work as well as it used to), and I couldn't think of any. Thanks for your help! Taskmaster That's literally his skill. 1 The Ghost Slaying Axe. The very best there is. When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherspectre in the room, accept no substitutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Shocker Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 33 minutes ago, JasperStone said: Agreed ...kinda where I was. ... They did Hellcat all sorts of wrong They did her great for that series and it worked great. She had a great role and was central to the plots of several seasons. 1 1 The Ghost Slaying Axe. The very best there is. When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherspectre in the room, accept no substitutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolnerd Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 If Spider-Man is a melee class at all (there's an argument for him being a Dominator, I think) he's absolutely a Super Reflexes tank as opposed to a scrapper. He does the punchy-punchy, sure, but it's not his main "thing" -- defense in the form of dodging and avoiding enemies' attacks is. Inhuman agility is his "primary powerset," so to speak. Plus he makes near-constant use of Taunt. 1 1 Formerly of Virtue, now on Excelsior: Ace of Spades | Adamant Eve | Arch-Rival | The Bee | Blackbelt | Citizen Arcane | Core | Ctrl Alt Defeat | Daddy Longlegs | Diamant | Freak Accident | Galactrix | Great White Shark Heavy Machinery | Highway Star | The Howl | Inter-Galactica | Ion Maiden | Knockout Artist | Krakatoa | Night's Templar | The Pact | Paroled McDonald | Virtual Boy | Volcaniac | White Widow | Yucatan And my most recent 50, Cyber-Security (Shield Defense/Street Justice tanker, 16 March 2024) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarky Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, Mjolnerd said: If Spider-Man is a melee class at all (there's an argument for him being a Dominator, I think) he's absolutely a Super Reflexes tank as opposed to a scrapper. He does the punchy-punchy, sure, but it's not his main "thing" -- defense in the form of dodging and avoiding enemies' attacks is. Inhuman agility is his "primary powerset," so to speak. Plus he makes near-constant use of Taunt. You make a helluva good argument. Combine that with relatively low damage attacks and it is almost textbook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraAlt Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 5 hours ago, cronus said: Just out of curiosity, can anyone name an example from comics of a super reflexes tank? I think on of the prime characteristics between a scrapper and a tank is the how strong the character is. Once you gain superhuman strength, I don't think you can be considered a scrapper any more. I know that Captain America pushes this a bit, but he isn't throwing cars around. Obviously, he's shield on some levels, but I think at the core, Captain America is super reflexes as he uses the shield as a weapon as well as for resistance. There is no good way to cover Cap's shield use in CoH. And, herein, lies the problem. In comic book superheroes - to a large extent - don't fall neatly into the CoH classification system. Part of the way that CoH tries to work around this issue with the archetypes is to allow powerpools. So, yeah, I consider Spiderman to be a super reflexes/super strength tank with the fighting, leaping, and speed power pools. Of course, Wonder Woman ... Blocking bullets with those gauntlets is definitely super reflexes. Ultra Boy is often uses super reflexes to avoid damage but he basically has the "swap ammo" of superpowers. .... but, of course, he has the ... ... (originally created by Brainiac 5 before retconning) so he can fly all the time regardless 5 hours ago, liveevil2000 said: Since Superman has superspeed, I think his super reflexes are more a result of his super speed and not really an agility thing. I think Superman would be built as Invulnerability/Super Strength with speed and leaping/flight (depending on which version of Superman. Originally, he couldn't fly). 7 hours ago, liveevil2000 said: Black Panther Before any retconning, I think Black Panther was around the strength level of Captain America. I think of him being a scrapper more than a tank. Is he stronger than Batman? Sure. But the only thing between Tank and Scrapper is Brute. I can kind of see Black Panther and Captain America falling into the Brute mold as they do tend to seem to get more powerful/into the the fight when they have more opponent to battle or are in a long fight. I guess I have to give in to the fact that part of being a tanker is being able to take/soak the damage. The vibranium in his costume/armor really give him that. So since he is relying on the suit for Invulnerability, I would have to say that means he has Invulnerability. His ability to leap around and avoid attacks would come from the leaping and fighting pools. 5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said: Batman and family due to extensive martial arts training. They get hurt if they get hit so they dodge a lot. I wouldn't consider any of the Batman family to be tanks. They are definitely scrappers with stealth if not stalkers some times Sure Bruce Wayne can pull the Tony Stark and pull out some Power Armor Batsuit, but is that what he does on a normal basis? Not that I remember at least. For all I know, with all the retconning going on, Batman can fly and sucks blood out of his victims ... I mean ... rrr... the criminals he is fighting. 4 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said: he can phase to dodge/avoid attacks Power Pool - https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Concealment#Phase_Shift. 5 hours ago, JasperStone said: doing a small deep dive I've been doing other things, but I think I've put enough time into thought on this post for now. I had a good time thinking about this one. I'm sure that there are more characters that I consider to be tanks with super reflexes that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. 1 If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore. (It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications) Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case. But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable. Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronus Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 6 hours ago, Mjolnerd said: If Spider-Man is a melee class at all (there's an argument for him being a Dominator, I think) he's absolutely a Super Reflexes tank as opposed to a scrapper. He does the punchy-punchy, sure, but it's not his main "thing" -- defense in the form of dodging and avoiding enemies' attacks is. Inhuman agility is his "primary powerset," so to speak. Plus he makes near-constant use of Taunt. Wow. I've never thought of Spidey that way, and its the best answer in terms of fitting what was in my head. A lot of the other suggestions I've seen are characters who do have super reflexes, but its not their primary attribute. Spidey does have super reflexes, and they are the tool that he uses to tank with. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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