Sometimes help is not helpful

[TheMoneyMaker]

I noticed something tonight.....the damage ratings from the fire melee powers are missing from mouseover and power select screen.

You know, the part that comes before the damage type giving a general idea of how much:  Minor, Light, Moderate, High, Superior, Extreme.....

 

 

I asked when and why this happened, and all I got was people telling me to check the combat attributes window or click the more detailed info buttons or download Mids and use that to figure out what I need.  But that isn't what I asked.  I don't need or want workarounds, I just wanted to know when and why.

 

One overly "helpful" individual insisted on being a day one player and this information has never been part of the game... even though it still is in other power sets, like Martial Arts and Energy Melee just for example:

 

[Snarky]

[TheMoneyMaker]

I can even understand some newer powersets created since HC started not having this info, but for a legacy powerset like fire melee?  I'm just confused both by the change and the idea that it was never like that. 

[Snarky]

7 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I can even understand some newer powersets created since HC started not having this info, but for a legacy powerset like fire melee?  I'm just confused both by the change and the idea that it was never like that. 

some of CoH early dev theory was to purposefully mislead players about things.  especially dps

[Spaghetti Betty]

Fire Melee is now like that because of the revamp it got not too long ago.

The vague descriptors are a relic from when the OG dev team insisted that not showing players any data made the game more fun. When the game was handed over to Paragon Studios, they kept the tradition alive and kept the descriptors on new powersets, but HC is doing away with them, at least on powersets they work on.

[TheMoneyMaker]

54 minutes ago, Snarky said:

some of CoH early dev theory was to purposefully mislead players about things.  especially dps

I get why they wanted the vagueness, and after Mids that is just a pipe dream.  But I still liked the vague descriptors as a kind of shorthand when looking for something.  I don't need or even care about specific info.  I'll leave that to the people who rely on Mids like it's their bible.  But for an at-a-glance-which-one-should-hit-harder resource, I miss not seeing it there.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Fire Melee is now like that because of the revamp it got not too long ago.

The vague descriptors are a relic from when the OG dev team insisted that not showing players any data made the game more fun. When the game was handed over to Paragon Studios, they kept the tradition alive and kept the descriptors on new powersets, but HC is doing away with them, at least on powersets they work on.

THANK YOU.  To all the people providing answers in Help to a question I did not ask, THIS is how you answer a question.  I may not agree with the answer, I may not like the reason behind it.....but THIS is all I wanted.

 

[TheMoneyMaker]

59 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Fire Melee is now like that because of the revamp it got not too long ago.

The vague descriptors are a relic from when the OG dev team insisted that not showing players any data made the game more fun. When the game was handed over to Paragon Studios, they kept the tradition alive and kept the descriptors on new powersets, but HC is doing away with them, at least on powersets they work on.

Just want to say that I feel like HC is doing a disservice to the legacy of the original game and the casual players who do not care about completely accurate numbers info or want to rely on poking further into additonal windows or using an outside source just to get an idea of which power in a set hits harder or not as hard as the others.  I don't care about how it can change with slotting or whatever else.  I want to be able to pick a power quick and easy and then not regret it later because they decided to not carry on the traditions of the old developers.  I mean, if they aren't going to do that, just throw out all the rules and stop calling the game what it was and just make it something entirely new.

[Snarky]

I vote Numberwang.  Quite catchy.  Much better than CoH?!?

[twozerofoxtrot]

3 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I want to be able to pick a power quick and easy and then not regret it later because they decided to not carry on the traditions of the old developers. 

 

The traditions of the old developers was to have inaccurate basic descriptions that gave a false impression of how much damage or recharge the powers actually had in relation to each other. This is the literal stated reason why HC devs started stripping the subjective descriptions out. 

 

What you're lamenting is being told something wrong, and wanting it back, jusy because it was simpler to believe the lie.

[Shred Monkey]

5 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I get why they wanted the vagueness, and after Mids that is just a pipe dream.

 

Those data miners who brought the truth of real numbers to the masses are the Heroes of our City.  

[TheMoneyMaker]

4 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

The traditions of the old developers was to have inaccurate basic descriptions that gave a false impression of how much damage or recharge the powers actually had in relation to each other. This is the literal stated reason why HC devs started stripping the subjective descriptions out. 

 

What you're lamenting is being told something wrong, and wanting it back, jusy because it was simpler to believe the lie.

I'm not saying they should put of leave false info.  If it's wrong, then correct it.

Tell us which powers deal Minor and Light damage rather than take away the descriptors.

Taking it away is a lazy fix, and I fault them for going this route.

[Bionic_Flea]

How much damage is minor, light, heavy, or extreme?

 

Is the scale the same for defenders and blasters?

 

That's just a couple of the problems with the damage labels.  They really don't mean much.  There's no known definition for them.  And the OG Devs applied them inconsistently.

[UltraAlt]

11 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Minor, Light, Moderate, High, Superior, Extreme.....

 

They really don't mean any set amount.

They are more for flavor.

 

Sure Superior and Extreme do more than Minor and Light, but - inside of the general ranges - they are sometimes flip-flop in in regard to which is more powerful dependent upon the power and power set.

 

[arcane]

2 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I'm not saying they should put of leave false info.  If it's wrong, then correct it.

Tell us which powers deal Minor and Light damage rather than take away the descriptors.

Taking it away is a lazy fix, and I fault them for going this route.

Those descriptors have never been reliable and the people that tried to help you were being helpful. Relying on those descriptors would be silly.

[Ghost]

I always looked at those descriptors as a way to differentiate powers within a powerset - not that “extreme” did the most damage compared to all other “non extreme” powers.  Just that it did the most out of the powers I have available to choose.

[Clave Dark 5]

I agree - the system may broke, but fix it not throw it all out.  I've always hated that approach.

 

It would be much easier for me to mouse over a couple of powers and compare "light" vs. "extreme" or whatever, than to have to look up real numbers via the wiki and that data page (who's name escapes me).  And if that still feels too difficult to agree to, then why not have the literal numbers pop up in the mouse over?  End of problem.

[Snarky]

6 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I agree - the system may broke, but fix it not throw it all out.  I've always hated that approach.

 

It would be much easier for me to mouse over a couple of powers and compare "light" vs. "extreme" or whatever, than to have to look up real numbers via the wiki and that data page (who's name escapes me).  And if that still feels too difficult to agree to, then why not have the literal numbers pop up in the mouse over?  End of problem.

It would be wonderful if someone would rewrite all the descriptions with accurate adjectives based on a standardized metric.  Like our volunteer staff have the time...

 

But where would it end?  Will you rewrite the Blaster description to remove the fact they are "Ranged" when in fact the archetype was written from the ground up as a Blapper and if you try to play fully ranged you gimp the shart outta your toon?

[Luminara]

The power icons tell you everything that the short help does, and more, with a brief glance.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Power_Icons_Legend

[Clave Dark 5]

11 hours ago, Snarky said:

Like our volunteer staff have the time...

They apparently have time to remove them, slowly.  I think typing in two words such as "high damage", say, shouldn't tax them too much. 

[Snarky]

14 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

They apparently have time to remove them, slowly.  I think typing in two words such as "high damage", say, shouldn't tax them too much. 

Not following every detail of the work.  Pretty sure they are mostly working organically on varying things as they come up or are changed.  Adding a full task of “get every power set description adjective to be accurate” would be a real task.  At least I would not want it.  Without pay…

Edited October 24, 2023 by Snarky

[Frostbiter]

I propose the power descriptions should get a rewrite with all of the common internet slang of today. Moist damages, bop damages, sus damages, bussin damages, drip damages and dank damages.

[carroto]

3 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Adding a full task of “get every power set description adjective to be accurate” would be a real task.

 

The HC devs have maintained the OG devs' tradition of being pretty cagey and limited in their community interactions.  I'm sure there must be a reason why but I can't help thinking there are missed opportunities there.  Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I'd think this could be crowd-sourced.  Ask the community to come together and derive a standardized map of descriptors as well as apply them to power sets.  Then the work for the devs would be plugging in the values when they happen to be working on a power set.

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, carroto said:

 

The HC devs have maintained the OG devs' tradition of being pretty cagey and limited in their community interactions.  I'm sure there must be a reason why but I can't help thinking there are missed opportunities there.  Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I'd think this could be crowd-sourced.  Ask the community to come together and derive a standardized map of descriptors as well as apply them to power sets.  Then the work for the devs would be plugging in the values when they happen to be working on a power set.

I like this idea.  The Devs could describe the parameters. (length of description, requirements  A B C) then people could argue, edit, re-edit, and finalize those over a period of time.  then the Devs could slap them on.  maybe do one power set at a time for focus.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Snarky

[Doomguide2005]

23 hours ago, Ghost said:

I always looked at those descriptors as a way to differentiate powers within a powerset - not that “extreme” did the most damage compared to all other “non extreme” powers.  Just that it did the most out of the powers I have available to choose.

    This was more or less what I came to understand.  Extreme damage on a Controller vs Defender vs Scrapper vs Blaster all meant different damage amounts done.  The only value was in the relative damage within a given set (nevermind AT).  In otherwords 80% flavor text, 20% misleading bull to a new player.

[Clave Dark 5]

11 hours ago, Snarky said:

Not following every detail of the work.  Pretty sure they are mostly working organically on varying things as they come up or are changed.  Adding a full task of “get every power set description adjective to be accurate” would be a real task.  At least I would not want it.  Without pay…

As they worked on a powerset, they didn't attempt to fix or correct these descriptors, they took the time to remove.  I'm saying that as they're already in the headspace of being right there with the text in front of them, why not fix rather than just remove?  This is a rather easy to achieve QoL change they could be making to help the game be more open, for both old hands and new comers.  It's a simple one or two word change to text files.  Do one a week - one a month - and you're making progress.