Focused Feedback: Arsenal Control

[Captain Powerhouse]

3 minutes ago, Calamity Cain said:

Make Sleep Grenade into something like Knockout Gas. What does it do? It not only puts some mobs to sleep, but it slows and/or stuns. Like, some enemies go right to bed, others get groggy and ineffectual

 

It's not in the patch notes, but the sleep grenade does actually slow down movement and recharge str.

[brass_eagle]

Can smoke canister get something in the description / detailed info window about aggro type for the power?

 

I know it says "cannot see past melee range" - but it wasn't obvious to me that "enemies will not notice this attack". 

 

---editing to add (small enough for one post)

 

Clocking device combat text might be using the blaster version:

 

It doesn't affect health / end that I can see from descriptions.

Edited January 21 by brass_eagle

[twozerofoxtrot]

My 5 minutes of playtime feedback:

 

8 hours ago, Exxar said:

Tranquilizer doesn't put enemies to sleep when I use it on my controller. Tested on hellions and clockwork around Prometheus Park on a level 1-2 character.

 

They are right, and shouldn't be. This power needs the Enfeebling Lullaby treatment where the sleep is layered on after the damage is applied so the latter doesn't disrupt the former. Otherwise it's totally useless as a control; especially since it could be a very good boss-remover for solo controllers with it's native 3.5 sleep mag (a nice touch). 

Oh yeah, and more damage would be nice, too.
 

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Swap Cryo Freeze Ray and Sleep Grenade. These are in silly places right now and like many people have pointed out above, both go against established precedence with control sets and create a "newb trap."

 

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On 11/23/2023 at 1:43 AM, The Curator said:

  Liquid Nitrogen  Ranged, Target DoT(Smashing), Immobilize, -Fly

 

This says Immobilize, but it doesn't. Not in game, or in the power description. Recommend striking from patch notes or even better, adding it (back?) in.

Also it does not take knockback enhancements or sets. This seems like an oversight? The use case might be limited but certainly I don't understand why we would be precluded from accessing KB set bonuses.

 

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On 11/23/2023 at 1:43 AM, The Curator said:

  Cloaking Device  Toggle: Self Stealth, +DEF(All)

 

The "No Fade" customization option is not working for this power; I fade.

 

A lot.

 

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10 hours ago, ScarySai said:

1: Smoke Cann ... It does pretty good work on +0, but basically doesn't exist beyond that, nor does it benefit from overpower or dominate.

 

This latter part is utterly ridiculous. This power might be a sleeper hit proc bomb but it it shouldn't be designed that way to the exclusion of being an effective control. I hope this is an oversight and fixed.

 

It procs pretty well, from my limited testing by the way. No it does not! I had this confused with Sleep Grenade (which does).

 

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10 hours ago, Dispari said:

#1: The set relies on no less than 3 area-targeted patches, but has no way to keep enemies IN those patches.

 

I feel like Liquid Nitrogen does this, but needs to be set up higher in the list in order to provide that effect for the follow-on patches. Also, if it *did* have an Immob component it would work better in this way *and* solve concerns about containment.
 

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10 hours ago, Dispari said:

#2: The AoE Sleep is a terrible contribution to the set. Sleep is just not good, at all, even in the case where it tics periodically to put people back to sleep.

 

I strongly disagree with this statement, but do feel (as stated above) it's in the wrong place for the set. It's a niche function that needs to be presented somewhere after level 10 and useful for certain encounters, or proc-bombed to high heaven. This IS a useful power for soloers who need to lock down extra aggro from a group or an ambush, and the fact that it ticks supports that function.

 

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On 11/23/2023 at 1:43 AM, The Curator said:

  Sleep Grenade Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DMG(Smash), Foe Sleep

This power doesn't list that it slows either in these patch notes or in the mouseover in game. It should, and it takes slow sets and enhancements. The proc rate seems very high for that first cast, which was nice to see.

 

[Edit in]: @Captain Powerhouse for your visibility, not in the game mouseover either.

 

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4 hours ago, High_Beam said:

I repeat - Do not like the Cryo Freeze Ray animation.  Should be a grenade like the rest.

 

Interestingly in the CC, the preview animation is a slug (projectile unseen) which creates and ice block. But in game it's more like the Crey Cryo Ray. So this is clearly a bug that needs fixing in one way or another.

FWIW, contrary to High Beam's opinion I like the freeze ray animation. It's rare to see otherwise, and well-designed. I'm happy to have it in wider circulation. But that's not exactly useful Open Beta style feedback, I know.

 

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[Edit in]:

 

Cryo Freeze ray's Infotab says it has a 16.35 hold duration (at level 10, unslotted) but my stopwatch testing showed it as closer to 29 seconds.

Which, you know. I love that. But maybe it needs to be fixed to either reflect the actual duration or (less desirably) have the duration match the Infotab.
 

Edited January 21 by twozerofoxtrot

[High_Beam]

2 hours ago, StarkWhite said:

I'm pretty sure the AOE Sleep *does* get re-applied, unless that got taken back out at some point when I wasn't paying attention.

Yep, reapplied.  Just saw it on the test run I am doing on the ARS/ARS Dom.

[Calamity Cain]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

It's not in the patch notes, but the sleep grenade does actually slow down movement and recharge str.

Oh neat! I still have to try 'em out in Beta. But thanks!

[Neogumbercules]

I'm looking forward to getting the kids to bed so I can play this but from looking at this at face value, cryo should really be T2, sleep grenade sounds interesting now that I know it re-applies and has slow/-recharge, but I'd MUCH rather have an AOE immob like wide-area web grenade, and I think it should go in cloaking devices' slot.

 

Cloaking device seems kinda...bleh. I could take it or leave it. Maybe if it was a team cloak (like shadow fall from dark Miasma without the res buffs).

 

Gun drone is boring. If it had more attacks with useful soft control secondary effects it would be a lot more exciting, but having a clone of a blaster power is very underwhelming.

[Captain Powerhouse]

1 hour ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

They are right, and shouldn't be. This power needs the Enfeebling Lullaby treatment where the sleep is layered on after the damage is applied so the latter doesn't disrupt the former. Otherwise it's totally useless as a control; especially since it could be a very good boss-remover for solo controllers with it's native 3.5sleep mag (a nice touch). 

 

Not sure what is going on here... I am looking at it right now and it has a 0.25s delay on the sleep. I recall testing it and it working as intended.

 

9 minutes ago, Neogumbercules said:

Gun drone is boring. If it had more attacks with useful soft control secondary effects it would be a lot more exciting, but having a clone of a blaster power is very underwhelming

 

Although it could be more interesting, its not exactly a clone. It attacks 2x as often as the blaster pet, and does not need resummoning until its defeated. It might still receive additional powers later, but do test its performance in game. 

[High_Beam]

Yeah, so testing the Dominator I altered my camera view to get a better look at the Beam of the Cryo Freez doodle.

 

Yeah, hate it more.  But please if everyone is set on the beam please, remove the lingering muzzle glow, or at least make it go away when another attack is triggered.

 

[Captain Powerhouse]

Note that Cryo Freeze Ray is not a new power, it should be the same visual effect and animation that is currently available in the Blaster epic pool. We may take a look at it, but major visual changes are unlikely given they would interfere with powers players already have been using for a long time. 

 

If you notice discrepancies between the two powers and their animation, please let me know.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Just a quick look at how Sleep Nade can be (admittedly, situationally) useful for a solo-leveling controller.

 

 

 

All proc'd out, but against even-cons in the open world (lvl 21).
The following procs and sets slotted (not necessarily optimally):

 

 

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Also, in further testing those procs in Smoke Can are completely wasted. 

Edited January 24 by twozerofoxtrot
added the youtube embed; changed some of my assessments on powers for posterity.

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 1/21/2024 at 10:38 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Not sure what is going on here... I am looking at it right now and it has a 0.25s delay on the sleep. I recall testing it and it working as intended.

 

I've spent a few hours with it now and it's certainly not on Brainstorm. The only time the sleep is engaging seems to be when the damage roll misses.

 

[Edit in]: This video illustrates my experiences well. The first target it seems the damage roll missed (no damage posted in chat, no floating numbers, target asleep) and the second target takes damage but no sleep. Hopefully the quality is manageable enough to see it.
 

 

Edited January 24 by twozerofoxtrot
added in the youtube video embed

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

I've spent a few hours with it now and it's certainly not on Brainstorm. The only time the sleep is engaging seems to be when the damage roll misses.

 

[Edit in]: This gif on Imgur illustrates my experiences well. The first target it seems the damage roll missed (no damage posted in chat, no floating numbers, target asleep) and the second target takes damage but no sleep. Hopefully the quality is manageable enough to see it.

 

that's weird, I just tested it and it worked fine for me.

[twozerofoxtrot]

13 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

 

that's weird, I just tested it and it worked fine for me.

 

Interesting, could you post a screen of the combat chat when it's WIA, as well as the AT/Powers?

 

There might be some specific bug that's causing the issue. I was on a level 21 Arse/Traps Troller (and I'm never backing off that abbreviation)

[Arcadio]

2 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Just a quick look at how Sleep Nade can be (admittedly, situationally) useful for a solo-leveling controller.
[Edit in]: If anyone can recommend a good place to compress a 150mb video down to something not awful to look at like that imgur post, I'd appreciate it.

 

All proc'd out, but against even-cons in the open world (lvl 21).
The following procs and sets slotted (not necessarily optimally):

 

 

---

Also, in further testing (while that imgur post uploaded) those procs in Smoke Can are completely wasted. My assumption is the pseudopet effect, but for whatever reason it's not anywhere near the same proc rate as what is being shown with Sleep Grenade. 3/10 power, easy skip if Controller/Dominator trait magnitude effects aren't applied.

Is one of those Javelins a damage proc? That would break the sleep 

 

Edit: Nevermind I tested it with no slotting and it doesn't sleep

Edited January 21 by Arcadio

[twozerofoxtrot]

41 minutes ago, Arcadio said:

Is one of those Javelins a damage proc? That would break the sleep 

 

A fair question but:

 

• I tested it without slotting 1st
• No it wouldn't. The way it's designed, the sleep is applied .25 seconds after the power activation, so the proc damage would be applied first. However, a dot proc from incarnates would break it.

[Captain Powerhouse]

58 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Interesting, could you post a screen of the combat chat when it's WIA, as well as the AT/Powers?

 

There might be some specific bug that's causing the issue. I was on a level 21 Arse/Traps Troller (and I'm never backing off that abbreviation)

 

Managed to replicate internally and got a fix. WHY its happening, I have no clue. Something something spaghetti code, I simply rearranged some effect groups and it got fixed...

[gameboy1234]

Playing a level 20 Arsenal Control / Arsenal Assault Dominator in Striga, the set is basically fun.  I'm playing against +0 enemies in missions.  I have to be careful how I set up attacks and use powers, but if I am I can steadily work my way through almost any groups of mobs with little risk.  It's a bit slow, but it is steady.  I do have to pay attention, I can't just button mash and expect the powers to do it all for me.

 

  Not sure how it plays at higher levels, but it feels OK at the middle levels.  I think other controllers and doms felt kinda weak at this level, so feels par for the course right now.

 

 

[Frosticus]

Tested for a bit on a Dom solo

 

It can pretty easily solo most stuff without domination up. Similar to earth in that regard in that you have a knockdown patch and a tough taunting pet so you don't "need" to control tougher bosses when you are on your own.  

 

Sleep Grenade: I proc'd it. 5 damage procs turns this into a pretty attractive power as the aoe is huge and it hits 16 targets (most dom assault powers only hit 10). The sleep seems to pulse.

 

Liquid Nitrogen: ice patch clone complete with the minor damage. I like it

 

Cloaking: spot for lotg, easy stealthing

 

Smoke: ok I'm not sure what to think about this power. The recharge is really short (it is up every 15 seconds easily) and it handles all the minions/luts. It doesn't alert and it lets you waltz by most spawns if you want, or keep a second spawn on pause. I think as a controller I'd use this power a lot. As a dom...Flash bang handles just about all your aoe spawn needs. Not a bad backup power though, but would you take this or the aoe hold for emergencies?

I don't have a solution, but it should be affected by domination/overpower even if that means double recharge imo.

 

Flash bang: mag 6 aoe stuns are the bread and butter of doms. This is a good one, decent cast, good range.

I could see a controller proc'ing this out (along with sleep nade) and relying on Smoke as their main control. That would give them quite a bit of aoe damage.

 

Gun Drone: this is a ridiculously OP pet for one specific purpose. AV solo'ing. A single pet res IO and it is 90% res (all). I've shown what you can do with stoney+spirit ward and he is no where near as robust as this thing. Otherwise it is great mid game when you may struggle to lock down a boss or two as it will "control" them for you. 

 

I think I'm more tempted to run this as a controller. I dunno, I'll think about it. There isn't much that benefits from domination in the set, but it should still do fine.

 

 

 

 

[JayboH]

Yeah I like the pet's performance.  Not nuts about its summon animation.  I like its theme - naturally having a different name/look would be nice as others have mentioned to make it stand out a bit but it isn't a deal breaker.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Saw this after I swapped Procs out for a set in Smoke Can. Wondering why there are duplicated values?

 

The fact that there's a 45s and then a 15s recharge time is really confusing in particular.

[Rand0lk]

Tested Arse/arse (huh) dom fully billions geared at 50 against +4/x8 new Council. It absolutely wreck things, given that the really only aoe damage is trip mine and it exposes you for some danger. The pet is almost as effective as is...boring. A different look and some added attacks would be very welcome. Just move cryo to tier 1 power and we're almost set.

[Voltak]

I am going to disagree with the vast majority of players on this one. 

The AoE sleep is good, and it is useful.   This is especially true in hard mode content, and it is also true in cases of ambushes, and it is also true when somehow somewhere more aggro has been engaged than you might want and your other instruments are just not enough.  
This is also good when taking on 2 or more AVs, and if given the chance of a single target or multiple target sleep, I would always pick the AoE, unless it is Mind Control, in that case I recommend both since dropping the useless TK is a given. 
It is great when trying to get your team to stealth their way at the same time to some objectives without wasting your more important AoE controls while doing so. 

The confuse power should be empowered by Domination.  Adjust the recharge time as necessary. 





 

Edited January 22 by Voltak

[Dispari]

11 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

This says Immobilize, but it doesn't. Not in game, or in the power description. Recommend striking from patch notes or even better, adding it (back?) in.

Also it does not take knockback enhancements or sets. This seems like an oversight? The use case might be limited but certainly I don't understand why we would be precluded from accessing KB set bonuses.

 

---

 

I strongly disagree with this statement, but do feel (as stated above) it's in the wrong place for the set. It's a niche function that needs to be presented somewhere after level 10 and useful for certain encounters, or proc-bombed to high heaven.

 

If the ice slick power actually immobilized people and the AoE sleep was moved down so it could be skipped, I would like this set a whole lot more. It would address pretty much all my concerns with the set's performance.

Only thing left is... the Gun Drone is boring, even if he attacks faster. It's still just an obviously ported Blaster power.

[BurtHutt]

I haven't tested this set but wanted to provide initial feedback.

-It seems very odd a rifled-based set is being used for control ATs...very odd.

-Each power in the set just seems like it's already somewhere in the game and a variety of these powers have been cobbled together to make this set. Not very interesting or exciting on the face of it. Hopefully I'm wrong. At some point I'll give it a chance but it really doesn't seem fun or interesting at this point. It looks like we've seen all of these powers on various ATs and power sets. 

[FupDup]

1 minute ago, BurtHutt said:

I haven't tested this set but wanted to provide initial feedback.

-It seems very odd a rifled-based set is being used for control ATs...very odd.

The point of being rifle-based is that it allows natural-origin Controllers and Dominators to be a thing. Normal unpowered humans can't create cages of electricity or fire just by training real hard. They can, however, pick up a gun.