Focused Feedback: Arsenal Assault

[UltraAlt]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:43 AM, The Curator said:

New Powerset - Arsenal Assault

 

I'm working with Arsenal/Arsenal Doms so I'm going to post in both threads - at least to start - and then keep specifics of the sets to the on the individual threads.

 

Character 1) auto leveled up to like level 22. Set-up with mostly if not all SOs.

Ran a police scanner mission in Talos.

I didn't really get the flow of the game play. Their are a bunch of click on a target location powers, and I wasn't using them so much because I forgot to turn the difficulty up, was on a purple cave map, and just wasn't figuring when to use the different click on target location powers.

 

Character 2) Since I wasn't getting the flow of the set, I created a new character. Running x2 xp but leveling through game play. 

Ran the lake and the building behind it to get the first 4 levels without enhancements. It seemed easier than most sets.

[UltraAlt]

1 minute ago, UltraAlt said:

On 11/22/2023 at 11:43 AM, The Curator said:

New Powerset - Arsenal Assault

Expand  

 

I'm working with Arsenal/Arsenal Doms so I'm going to post in both threads - at least to start - and then keep specifics of the sets to the on the individual threads.

 

Character 1) My loss and my prejudice for the name, but I simply can't get behind using a power called Buttstroke Melee. (I'm stating this for honest sake.)

 

[noogens2]

I played an end game arsenal/aresenal dom for about 3-4 hours and have these thoughts.

• The set is fun but the damage feels like on the lowerish side as it took me longer to clear mishes than my other doms.  It may be due to the amount of heavy lethal resistance.  Maybe allow more variety of proc slotting like Savage.   Also single targe damage "feels" slower due to the slower DOT on the T9 power.  
•  Since this set is unique to the AT, would it be possible to have the knockback turned to knockdown for most or all of the powers?  It would be nice to have the "knockback slot tax" be shifted to the fewer players who want do KB and make them slot KB enhancements versus most other players having to slot KB2KD enhancements.  Making this change would free up slots on already tight dom builds.  At the minimum it would be nice for trip mine to have that change since the power is meant to be the quasi-pbaoe power in the set.  None of the other dominator pbaoes do KB. 
• I wish there was slightly more flavor such as a pbaoe like dragon's tail but with a 360 gun fluorish..
• Overall it feels a bit middling performance-wise but fun enough to roll on live.  I already had a ghetto gun-troller AR/TA blaster so this will be up my alley.

[biostem]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:43 AM, The Curator said:

  Heavy Blow  Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash), Foe Knockback

I kind of feel like this power's animation doesn't fit in properly.  Maybe replace it with bayonet from SoAs or a shorter range version of beanbag round.

Edited January 24 by biostem

[SquidboyDD214]

The animation for Sniper Rifle (at least in the customize power window) is mistimed. After the toon lowers the weapon after aiming the power activates. 

[Lost Deep]

Initial low-level test gives me mixed feelings; it feels like the most distinct parts of Assault Rifle have been replaced with melee attacks. I don't think that's bad, per se, but it's an odd choice and feels less distinct than the original.

[warlyx]

havent tested it yet but looking at the description omg the amount on foe knockback....is disturbing.

[WindDemon21]

On 1/23/2024 at 2:18 PM, UltraAlt said:

 

Ignite is to bright for my eyes. Not as bad as Flash Bang, but still a bit bight.

I can't change it so that it isn't eye painful.

I know it is supposed to be fire but how about we give it a dark setting, tintable, or at least substitute a medium to dark shade of red in the brighter parts?

I'd prefer to not have to "noparticles 1" because of my own characters powers.

Along this line, can we please get a fix to let us color the fire for ignite, and other similar effects like the sparks that come from using any lethal weapons like claws, bullet shells, the glow aura that chases the target for cleave/golden dragonfly/headsplitter, OIL SLICK (basically all of TA/arrow stuff), explosions etc.

[WindDemon21]

15 hours ago, warlyx said:

havent tested it yet but looking at the description omg the amount on foe knockback....is disturbing.

I agree especially on a class that basically has to melee most of the time. Can we get buckshot, heavy blow, and trip mine at least to be innate .67 mag kb (so people can slot to be KB instead of KD if they want, but would still be inherent KD without slotting) Sniper rifle is fine with the KB, but those 3 powers especially the aoe's are going to be super annoying basically being forced to put a kb-kd in them on a dom.

[ScarySai]

38 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

I agree especially on a class that basically has to melee most of the time. Can we get buckshot, heavy blow, and trip mine at least to be innate .67 mag kb (so people can slot to be KB instead of KD if they want, but would still be inherent KD without slotting) Sniper rifle is fine with the KB, but those 3 powers especially the aoe's are going to be super annoying basically being forced to put a kb-kd in them on a dom.

 

At the very least, doms can convert knock with their root most of the time. The big issue for arsenal assault is just tripmine being bugged/bad right now IMO.

 

If you're playing arse/arse, good luck with that knock issue though, lol.

[Indystruck]

16 hours ago, warlyx said:

havent tested it yet but looking at the description omg the amount on foe knockback....is disturbing.

 

knockback is good and it is my friend

[WindDemon21]

12 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

At the very least, doms can convert knock with their root most of the time. The big issue for arsenal assault is just tripmine being bugged/bad right now IMO.

 

If you're playing arse/arse, good luck with that knock issue though, lol.

Right, I was thinking mind/arse personally but still, just doesn't need to be KB when it could be inherent KD. Especially for the theme-paired set that doesn't even have an aoe immobilize (YET! : edit for that lol). Even then you have to spam it for the short duration kb resistance and hope it doesn't miss also for the pointless acc penalty that at least aoe immobilizes and aoe mez in general have.

Edited January 25 by WindDemon21

[WindDemon21]

7 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

when they inevitably run out of your four patches because nothing is keeping them there, you'll be glad you have KB for a change

I'd rather arsenal control just get fixed to have it and these types of powers get fixed to KD slottable to be KB if desired.

 

Edit: Another part that makes this extra annoying on these powers, is the chance to KB at least should be 100%. Nothing worse than an aoe that only knocks back HALF the mob...

Edited January 25 by WindDemon21

[arcane]

I think it makes sense to make Heavy Blow KD. Buckshot and Trip Mine not so much. 

[TheMoncrief]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:25 PM, megaericzero said:

On a more serious note: no desire to name the set Rifle Assault since it's (I assume) the thematic-relative to the Assault Rifle blast set?

 

Not that there's anything wrong with the set name and I'm guessing it's meant to line-up with Arsenal Control in the set listing.

 

I'd have gone with Military Assault or some such. I'd also have put in a bayonet attack instead of the punch. But it still seems like an interesting set, in spite of the inevitable juvenile jokes.

[Razor Cure]

On 1/21/2024 at 4:05 AM, Fade said:

100% While this name is rather brillant..does it really fit in?

 

[warlyx]

Maybe is time to ask again for a character stance that converts kb to kd 😅, ok ok back to the cave 🤭

[Shin Magmus]

To be clear: this is about Arsenal Assault's KB but it could apply a bit to Energy Assault as well: in tandem with Arsenal Control.

 

What I'm saying is that the enemies are shooting at you during all this time.  Since you didn't start with your Confuse Patch or your Knockdown Patch: and if you started with your Sleep Grenade then that breaks instantly after your first AoE attack. You'd have to flawlessly chain KBs with perfect timing because... as soon as they get up from one: they aren't mezzed.  They aren't Confused and they aren't anything.

 

Flashbang and the AoE Hold will work... when they're off CD... but if you successfully Stunned or Held all the enemies already: why would you then need or want to knock them into a Confuse patch?  The whole set's... "Flowchart" is just bad if you or anyone on the team has KB.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Sorry if I hid your post(s), but we are trying to keep these feedback threads as focused as possible without the back and forth discussions. 

 

Hint:  If you are quoting someone you are probably already heading down the path to hidden town.

[Plutoria]

Touched a bit on this set with arse ctrl thread, figure I'd add a bit here.

 

Currently testing Arse/Arse dom. Made a mix of builds and tested them with many foes types 54/8 as a Adepta Sororitas theme.

 

Arsenal Assault:

Honestly my new favorite Assault Set ( energy and dark being the others).

 

Love:

Targeting Drone

Trip Mine because boom! ( Was always the fun part of devices/traps)

Ignite - Purify the heretics in the name of The Emperor!

Power up

 

Unpopular opinion:

As much as we all enjoy a good buttstroke the stun duration is extremely long ( plus with domination it's even longer) for a level 1 attack. Maybe it isn't a consensual buttstroke thus the longer than usual stun duration. Perhaps swap with KD/KB from Heavy Blow and put the stun in Heavy Blow? ( or reduce duration?)

 

 

Swap Buck Shot for Slug?

 

Slug would help close the ST range gap. Currently using Cryo Freeze Ray from control set (Burst>Ray>Ignite>Snipe & Heavy Blow when in melee range).

 

Ignite, Heavy Blow, Snipe is tearing up bosses at a respectable rate. While I understand people being apprehensive with lethal it is hitting fairly hard with current setup. With all 3 -res procs baked into final build not really encountering issues vs most boss types.

 

Trip mine has been filling the AoE gap ( add in AoE control powers with procs , incarnate) plus with ignite when mobs are close together.

While the power scale is inline with PBAOE dom attacks of that tier one notable difference is that trip mine can't use damage procs to compensate.

Maybe add the 50% chance for additional Fire damage like as with the other variations of trip mine? This keeps the primary power scale still in line with that tier level and helps boosts the damage for end game usage. This still gives the blaster version the upper edge in toe bombing damage and allows the traps variation a edge in higher damage scale with the interrupt penalty. Baseline defender is still at 126. Even if the additional damage chance is modified as a DoT effect still keeps the defender version more "bursty".

 

63.96 / 31.98 = 95.94

or 63.96/15.99 = 79.95

 

Engulfing darkness lvl 16 is 72.18 base  ( 23.76 difference) but can still be slotted for procs

Tremor is at 58.21  base( can also be slotted with procs) as a level 4 power

Whirling Hands lvl 20 is 67.16 base, can proc and has special mechanic of double striking.

Combustion lvl 20 is 75.91 base Can proc plus gets modified further from embrace of fire.

Ice sword circle  69.74 Can proc and access at lvl 4.

Dragon Tail lvl 20 - 52.46  ( lower damage but martial tends to be aoe heavier overall)

Psy shockwave lvl 30 - 63.96

Atom Smasher lvl 24 - 90.51

Deafening wave 63.96 at lvl 20

Thorn Burst lvl 20 - 69.26

(data not showing properly for rending flurry)

 

Could also remove buckshot and replace with trip mine

This would open a lvl 20 slot

Or could pop targeting drone in at 20

Ignite at 24 ( other ATs get at 22 and 28 )

Now opening up slot 30 for something with more punch like a modified Full Auto, modified Heavy Burst from SoA, or

Or another melee ST option

maybe even a hybrid situation like shooting off a chain induction?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Plutoria
typo

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Tried out an arsenal / arsenal / mu dom for about an hour or two. Tried leveling as a newer player to see how the early part of that experience might go, getting to level 6 with no XP bonus or IOs beyond the freebie IOs and the vet attacks from P2W. Did story arcs and a little street hunting in AP and then switched to radio missions and a bank safeguard mission in KR. Set missions to +0, 1 player, bosses OK. The hold, AOE sleep, and buttstroke worked well together. No defeats for my dominator, but careful play was needed at times to bring that about, especially when street hunting some red clockwork and an ambush came up from behind. Overall it was quite fun, and also nostalgic because many of my characters followed that path in their early leveling (or the hollows route) back when the game was live. 

 

After that, this dominator was auto-leveled to 50 and given endgame IOs. With fairly defensive slotting for incarnates (barrier core destiny, cardiac core alpha, melee core hybrid) a pylon test following the usual parameters yielded 324.5 DPS (195 seconds). For DPS the pylon test was in the top 1/3 or thereabouts for doms for which I do pylon tests. As a bit of a caveat, for most of my dom builds there's no pet from the primary. In this case, though, the arsenal control pet was used for the pylon DPS test. Those who execute attack chains better and who lean heavier toward maximizing damage would undoubtedly be able to get higher DPS than that. In short, single target DPS seems to be reasonable overall, neither wildly higher or wildly lower than most other sets. 

 

The office mission in Koopak's clear speed leaderboard post (23868 on the test server AE) was cleared in about 10 minutes. The relative slowness of the run had much to do with three main things: lack of familiarity with the sets, knockback, and fear effects from ignite. Regarding ignite, damage seemed to be quite good. But, it repeatedly chased mobs out of areas that were affected by AOE controls and mobs that ran didn't always come back soon afterward. 

Regarding knockback, the melee knock magnitude was surprisingly high given the nature of the attack. There's already a lot of knocks in the set. So, it would help to have the melee knock turned into a knockdown effect. On a related note, at the level at which I took trip mine the KB was listed as 0.75 magnitude and I didn't check to see if it changed later. Either knock magnitude for trip mine scaled with level or there's an error in the KB magnitude listed. I would have paid the slot tax to put a KB to KD IO in trip mine if I knew it would undermine efforts to efficiently clear missions. Really, though, hopefully the number of knocks in the set and their magnitudes will be re-considered; if a set has 1 slot tax for knockback then that's easier to accept than if it has multiple slot taxes for knockback. 

Overall, the number and magnitude of the knocks and the fear effect in ignite makes arsenal assault challenging to pair with control sets that rely on AOE patches and don't have an AOE immobilize. That's unfortunate because the most thematically obvious pairing would be Arsenal control, which has multiple AOE control patches and no AOE immobilize. This late into the design process it's not clear what the remedy might be. But, hopefully there can be a way to get arsenal control and arsenal assault to work together better. 

Edit: Knockback and fear effects were still an issue in a subsequent PI radio mission featuring CoT and run at +4x8. 

Edited January 28 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Dispari]

Regarding recent changes, my thoughts on the set are:

1) I understand why we have Buttstroke and Elbow Strike; all Dom sets are a combination of melee and range. Even if I feel melee attacks are unusual for a gun-based set, it's part of the class identity, and technically Doms do more damage in melee, so they aren't bad. Also having a PBAoE in the form of Trip Mine helps justify this. And the overall lack of cones in Control means you can mostly stay in melee if you want to. That said: Buckshot. It's a cone. I think M30 Grenade would be a better fit for the set. Outside of this one power there's no other reason an Arsenal/Arsenal Dom needs to back out of melee range. I know, Doms tend to get cones, it is what it is. But it's not entirely unprecedented. Anyway this one is a long shot but it's how I feel.

 

2) While we're on the topic of the melee powers, I don't understand Elbow Strike. The set is about having a gun and this power is you just punching someone. The gun doesn't come into play at all. Is this an animation problem? Are there no other animations for a melee attack with a gun that would work? I would even prefer some sort of anime nonsense uppercutting someone with the gun to just not using the gun at all. It would be like having a karate kick in the middle of Radiation Blast. I don't get it.

3) The changes to the unique version of Trip Mine are making it pretty good. It has the best features of the blaster version, not being interruptable, while also having a knockdown (one less power to not have to reign in KB on. Looking at you Buckshot and the possible replacement M30 Grenade). So this is good.

4) The utility in this set is good, I like the general Power Up option and Targeting Drone is quite good. It goes a long way toward making sure those low accuracy mez powers land.
 

5) Snipes are always good and I appreciate its inclusion here. It's one of the better powers.

6) Ignite is a good power, though it does make enemies flee like pretty much all damage patches. Hey you know what would help with that? If the Control set had an immobilize...

[High_Beam]

Further testing with my ARS/ARS Dom; still seems solid.

 

Agree with @Dispari regarding Buckshot vs M30 grenade for thematic reasons.  Alter the damage or whatevah.  Or if you are going with bullet-driven gun attacks, alter it to a cony burst like the Huntsmen have (again, alter whatever needs to be altered to make it damage balanced).  But not Slug, not a Single target attack.  Need to be able to engage multi targets since sleep no longer reapplies on the the primary.  I need to whittle them down until I can fire again.

[arcane]

Looking at Dominator trends, M30 Grenade would appear in an epic pool if anything. Definitely not in a Dominator secondary.

[Dispari]

You're not wrong, but gotta shoot for the stars sometimes. Dominators do tend to get cone attacks, for some reason, even if they don't synergize with the set well. Trying to mix ranged cones with melee powers is always obnoxious.