Focused Feedback: Arsenal Assault

[megaericzero]

On a more serious note: no desire to name the set Rifle Assault since it's (I assume) the thematic-relative to the Assault Rifle blast set?

 

Not that there's anything wrong with the set name and I'm guessing it's meant to line-up with Arsenal Control in the set listing.

[Frosticus]

I'm kinda meh on this set after trying it for awhile.

 

Nice synergy of targeting drone and power up letting you hit thru most things.

 

Buttstroking is nice because it takes the ATO +dam

 

I dunno, lethal heavy set, but it definitely isn't as crazy as savage, or likely as effective as thorns with its added control and proc opportunities. 

 

I'll look into it some more but this one might be a pass for me. 

[Rand0lk]

Trip mine is very, very underpowered in comparison with devices/traps version. Is that intended?

[Dispari]

Traps and Devices versions of Trip Mine are different. Devices is non-interruptable and so animates much faster. It can be used in combat and under fire. The downside is a longer recharge of 30s compared to Traps which is 20s.

 

However, Dom version seems to be a hybrid? It's non-interruptable like Blaster, but has a 20s recharge. And the damage reported is quite low.

 

The power does seem to be significantly weaker. For one it has no lethal component, and it has no random fire damage on it. The details for the Blaster version are shown as a pseudopet with a self-destruct power, while the Dom version just reports damage as an attack. The fire damage also seems quite low on top of that. Blasters and Doms should have much closer damage values.

 

(Also minor bug apparent in these screenies, the powers are being reported as Assault Rifle and not Arsenal Assault, even the ones that have no crossover like Power Up)

[Captain Powerhouse]

Trip Mine on this set is, as noticed, an entirely different power despite its similarities. It’s balanced in a similar fashion to other Assault set PBAoEs. Lower recharge and does less damage, but it also gets to inherit buffs and inspirations something that Blaster version of trip mine can’t do, while still retaining the ability to spawn multiple trip mines.

 

Note that buffs on trip mines still have a timer so they will expire. Using Power Up and then planting a bunch of trip mines will result in most of them to lose the buff at the same time you lose your buff even if they have not detonated.

 

Not in front of my computer to double check, but think this trip mine also has a larger radius.

[Tacheyon]

I was playing around with the set and noticed Trip Mine on the Arsenal set doesn't have the interrupt that the MM (and other Trap sets) does.

 

Is this intentional for the lower damage as well?

[Kaika]

6 hours ago, Dispari said:

BTW not sure if it's Arsenal Control or Arsenal Assault doing this (or both), but having the old bug where my weapon is reset every time I go into the character editor. I have it set to Celestial Rifle on my back. But every time I open the editor it's reset to default, which would cost me money if I said okay.

This is an issue that AR also has on live right now.  I'm assuming it just inherited it. Most likely it shares the other issue that sheathed AR weapons have, where other players see you holding nothing when not actively using a power.

 

I am unfortunately not able to test this atm though

[Dispari]

DP also had the bug for a while but it was fixed at some point.

[LastHumanSoldier]

, I would like Heavy Blowchanged to Bayonet.  The random single punch really takes away from the set.

[I Dream of Greeny]

Not a fan of, "Buttstroke" either. It may be the correct term and even an unnecessary and avoidable double-entendre, the real issue for me is that it's inconsistent.

 

The Pummel power has been around since legacy. It's literally the same power, there's no reason there should be two different names. Note the similarity in each powers description:

 

Pummel - "You can smash your opponents in close combat with the butt of your sub-machine gun to deal minor smashing damage. Pummel has a high chance to disorient your foe for a brief time."

 

VS.

 

Buttstroke - "A smash with the butt of your rifle with a high chance of disorienting"

 

It's 2023 and we don't kink-shame so everyone should feel free to buttstroke as long as it's consensual. But in the same update that Epic Pool names are being streamlined and VEATs are even being updated yet no powers are being renamed, so many potentially annoying conversations could be avoided if we just called a "pummel", well, a "pummel".

[...]

1 hour ago, I Dream of Greeny said:

Not a fan of, "Buttstroke" either. It may be the correct term and even an unnecessary and avoidable double-entendre, the real issue for me is that it's inconsistent.

 

The Pummel power has been around since legacy. It's literally the same power, there's no reason there should be two different names. Note the similarity in each powers description:

 

Pummel - "You can smash your opponents in close combat with the butt of your sub-machine gun to deal minor smashing damage. Pummel has a high chance to disorient your foe for a brief time."

 

VS.

 

Buttstroke - "A smash with the butt of your rifle with a high chance of disorienting"

 

It's 2023 and we don't kink-shame so everyone should feel free to buttstroke as long as it's consensual. But in the same update that Epic Pool names are being streamlined and VEATs are even being updated yet no powers are being renamed, so many potentially annoying conversations could be avoided if we just called a "pummel", well, a "pummel".

 

Agree. A little surprised Buttstroke made it this far. 

 

Yes, it's hilarious. 

 

Yes, it's technically correct. 

 

No, it's not appropriate for CoH. *

 

Yes, it contravenes CoH naming conventions. 

 

Honestly, there's a reason the OG devs didn't name Pummel as Buttstroke. See * above. 

 

Time to do the right thing Devs. 

Edited January 22 by ...
Added technically correct

[kelika2]

Change Heavy Blow to Shocklance.  Basically Bayonet with a Taser.

Or whip out the old blaster Taser animation

I was playing Tribes earlier and it just came to me for some reason.

[twozerofoxtrot]

I'm really inspired by these devs who clearly have some idea about modern combat which not only true-to-life Army Combat Helmets (ACH) but also the proper terminology such as Buttstroke and even leveraged the similar animation from Street Justice to mimic similar blows taught in US Army Combatives Program (dated, pg 9-10). 

 

It sure would be a shame if they changed the names or animations based on a bunch of people who had no clue about fighting with a long gun in hand.

[UltraAlt]

On 1/20/2024 at 2:05 PM, InfamousBrad said:

Buttstroke and Heavy Blow

 

Wow. Well, that's a combination that could really get you in trouble with the Code of Conduct.

They are used in context here. Just quoting in the context of the discussion.

 

 

 

[UltraAlt]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:27 PM, StarkWhite said:

I know, I'm there too. I'm just not twelve and don't find it particularly hilarious.

 

I don't find it comedic myself, but you haven't played very along if you don't know how some players will react to being able to use the term in-game .... with an excuse for doing so.

[Rand0lk]

Oh please, stop it. Two pages talking about a power name, which is perfectly fine and in-context as is. Just test the damn thing and report, if anything.

Edited January 22 by Rand0lk

[ForeverLaxx]

I, for one, am excited to see a slew of Deathstroke knockoffs called Buttstroke.

[SeraphimKensai]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:47 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Note that buffs on trip mines still have a timer so they will expire. Using Power Up and then planting a bunch of trip mines will result in most of them to lose the buff at the same time you lose your buff even if they have not detonated.

 

Not in front of my computer to double check, but think this trip mine also has a larger radius.

On that note, if we spawn a bunch of mines and then use Power Up, do the mines already set but not detonated inherit the Power Up if Power Up is in play when they detonate?

 

Thanks btw for the set it's definitely interesting.

[SeraphimKensai]

12 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

US Army Combatives Program

Combatives 1 and 2 were great programs. We had a blast going back to the battery and teaching everyone combatives for PT.

[Captain Powerhouse]

12 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

On that note, if we spawn a bunch of mines and then use Power Up, do the mines already set but not detonated inherit the Power Up if Power Up is in play when they detonate?

 

No, all buff-inheriting pets only inherit buffs at the time of summoning.

[SeraphimKensai]

Just now, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

No, all buff-inheriting pets only inherit buffs at the time of summoning.

That's what I figured, but I thought it was worth the ask.

[GM Tock]

Back to the topic: how is the set doing in Open Beta?  How are the attacks working out?

[twozerofoxtrot]

7 hours ago, GM Tock said:

Back to the topic: how is the set doing in Open Beta?  How are the attacks working out?

 

This is pretty shallow feedback but working my way though the Striga arcs on +0/4 with a (to start) lvl 21 Ars/Ars Dom, I'm left slightly underwhelmed.

 

I had run a lvl 21 Ars*/Traps Troller through some +0/4 and then later +4/4 Sharkhead papers missions, and cleared much slower, but much smoother. I do understand this is the benefit of a strong Support set at work, but I never died with that Troller.

 

But with the Dom, I'm seeing deaths even with much more deliberate positioning and openings than I had on the Troller. I haven't done a hard numbers side-by-side, but I feel like it's definitely a symptom of /Ars being too low on damage to clear through the mobs before the controls let up in those fights.  And I am sequencing controls to keep the mob locked down, I just lose on the recharge clock. Again, at +0/4. Right now my heavy hitters are Procd Freeze Ray and Procd Sleep Grenade. 

 

This also seems to be impacting how quickly I build my Dom bar. During full clears I might get it up to Dom once? I've not been playing too much attention to this until lately, and haven't had time to do similar testing with other Doms to see if it's just how I feel versus what's actually going on. But I play enough Doms through the mid-level journey to have confidence in my assessment.

 

On the plus side, it seems like the set's attacks are relatively low on endurance consumption? Again, I haven't done a number comparison but with powers set up as they are with almost no end redux slotting, I'm surprised at how endurance stable I am in my low 20's, when Endurance use really starts to bite. I'm even running Super Jump without realizing it most missions.

 

Also on the plus side... no bugs? Not that I can tell; I'm assuming how fast Trip Mine activates when dropping mid-combat is intentional. That really helps it feel like a conventional PBAoE power when used that way, while still having the other role as a trap.

 

*similarly slotted primary for max consistency
 

---

 

My next step is to run it at 35 (which I've already done with the Ars/Traps controller) and see if the T8 and T9 powers help shore up the set. But as of now, it's a hard sell.
 

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Slotting for transparency:

[Booper]

7 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

This is pretty shallow feedback

There was nothing shallow about that feedback. Thank you for the testing and response.

[UltraAlt]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:43 AM, The Curator said:

Ignite  Range, DoT(Fire)

 

Ignite is to bright for my eyes. Not as bad as Flash Bang, but still a bit bight.

I can't change it so that it isn't eye painful.

I know it is supposed to be fire but how about we give it a dark setting, tintable, or at least substitute a medium to dark shade of red in the brighter parts?

I'd prefer to not have to "noparticles 1" because of my own characters powers.