Two very random questions (KB/KD and Regen vs. Res)

[Story Archer]

1) How necessary is KB to KD for play at the higher levels? As a Tank I've been driven mad at lower levels with my carefully gathered mobs getting blown all over the map, but looking at slotting I've things I'd much rather use that Foot Stomp slot for than KB/KD. It seems to me that higher level foes automatically convert KB to KD but I'm not sure how that works - is it some sort of scaling reduction based on their resistance to KB? If anybody can explain to me how that works (or point me in the direction of an explanation) I'd much appreciate it, but my main question is, if you're consistently battling +2 content or higher, can you expect most KB to be converted to KD regardless?

 

2) What's better for a medium Health Tank, +1.5% Resist all or 25% regen?

 

TIA!

[Digirium]

My tankers use KB to KD in powers that have KB because I don't want to be THAT player!

 

Take the 25% regen - health regen is very underrated on tanks but after defense, resistance it is the next most important thing!

[Nemu]

Footstomp does KD unless facing lower level mobs or mobs weak against KB like clockwork. You typically do not need to pay the kb tax in footstomp unless you constantly fight mobs lower level than you. Hand clap on the other hand does require that you pay the tax if you decide to take the power which a lot of people don't because iT dOeSn'T dO dAmAgE.

 

resist vs regen really depends how how many slots you are sinking into those bonuses and the opportunity cost of slotting powers that way and how that synergizes with the rest of your build. In a vacuum both you can take either and it won't make a significant difference.

[Story Archer]

12 minutes ago, Nemu said:

Footstomp does KD unless facing lower level mobs or mobs weak against KB like clockwork. You typically do not need to pay the kb tax in footstomp unless you constantly fight mobs lower level than you. Hand clap on the other hand does require that you pay the tax if you decide to take the power which a lot of people don't because iT dOeSn'T dO dAmAgE.

 

Very helpful, thank-you.

[Frozen Burn]

42 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

1) How necessary is KB to KD for play at the higher levels? As a Tank I've been driven mad at lower levels with my carefully gathered mobs getting blown all over the map, but looking at slotting I've things I'd much rather use that Foot Stomp slot for than KB/KD. It seems to me that higher level foes automatically convert KB to KD but I'm not sure how that works - is it some sort of scaling reduction based on their resistance to KB? If anybody can explain to me how that works (or point me in the direction of an explanation) I'd much appreciate it, but my main question is, if you're consistently battling +2 content or higher, can you expect most KB to be converted to KD regardless?

 

Knock DOWN is just very low mag Knock Back.  The KD>KB procs will convert the power's higher mag of KB to 0.67 mag of "KB" which then makes them fall down, instead of backwards.  So, as Nemu stated, Footstomp does 0.67 mag of KB already - which knocks them down.  So, your proc in it is useless and you can safely put something else in it.  

 

I am sure it is confusing as Footstomp's power description probably states "Knock Back" even though it's low mag and foes actually KD.  So, you have to be careful about power's descriptions and look at the actual mag of KB they do.  I find it's really only some of the powers in the newer powersets that start adding in the description of "Knock Down" - powers from older sets seem to still cling to the KB description even if they in fact KD.   (Confused yet?)  😄  

 

And yes, with Footstomp, lower level (conning blue, green, or grey) or even pets, underlings, and such - and Primal Clockwork (including even-con minions and LTs) - will Knock BACK with foot stomp because they don't have any resistance at all or enough to overcome the 0.67 mag.  But all other foes should Knock DOWN with Footstomp.

[KC4800]

To answer your first question: As a tank how does it feel to you to chase down a foe you knocked away? To me it feels pretty ok. My first tank on live was a WarMace and we knocked everything away or up, and no one cared. Until I teamed with a burn tank then he cared, what-ever. Yeah, I wasted a burn patch, but so what. When I play a blaster and I knock something away, I own that guy until he's at zero health. So you don't need to concern  yourself about chasing him down. You can if you want to but you don't have to.

 

EDIT: The only powers that need KB/KD, imo, are pets that do knockback. Like some controller pets, or masterminds.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by KC4800

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Story Archer said:

How necessary is KB to KD for play at the higher levels?

Depends on the character and the concept. Both of my Seismic Blasters have a KB enhancement as the sixth slot in Meteor, just for the lulz in watching mobs go screaming off into the distance (the flaming comet of a destroyed Nemesis Jaeger is entertaining to watch), and to use careful positioning of the impact point to hurl mobs into a corner where other AoEs can more easily finish them off.

[Snarky]

Run a Earth Blaster for a few weeks.  No one gives you shit when meteor slams down and everyone goes flying ass over teakettle.  
 

res vs regen?  As was pointed out it depends on your build synergy.  It can be part of an intricate design where every bit helps.  Or…randomly stuck on who cares.

[Doomguide2005]

And not just build but what you typically do while running that character

[Story Archer]

3 hours ago, KC4800 said:

To answer your first question: As a tank how does it feel to you to chase down a foe you knocked away? To me it feels pretty ok. My first tank on live was a WarMace and we knocked everything away or up, and no one cared. Until I teamed with a burn tank then he cared, what-ever. Yeah, I wasted a burn patch, but so what. When I play a blaster and I knock something away, I own that guy until he's at zero health. So you don't need to concern  yourself about chasing him down. You can if you want to but you don't have to.

 

EDIT: The only powers that need KB/KD, imo, are pets that do knockback. Like some controller pets, or masterminds.

 

Yeah, what you're describing isn't problematic at all. I'm talking about AoE effects that deal marginal damage but send the entire group of guys flying . That's a bit of a pain, especially when it happens just as my Footstomp or other AoE's are cued up and about to fire.

[Snarky]

2 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

 

Yeah, what you're describing isn't problematic at all. I'm talking about AoE effects that deal marginal damage but send the entire group of guys flying . That's a bit of a pain, especially when it happens just as my Footstomp or other AoE's are cued up and about to fire.

it is beautiful.  remember to hit "roflmao" in team chat any time you drop Meteor.  just to let the team know it was meant in good fun.

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, Story Archer said:

It seems to me that higher level foes automatically convert KB to KD but I'm not sure how that works

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch

 

Enemies above your level resist nearly anything you do to them.  You deal less damage, your secondary effects are reduced (including KB), et cetera.

 

Enemies below your level are weak to nearly anything you do to them.  You deal more damage, your secondary effects are increased, et cetera.

[Yomo Kimyata]

6 hours ago, Story Archer said:

1) How necessary is KB to KD for play at the higher levels? As a Tank I've been driven mad at lower levels with my carefully gathered mobs getting blown all over the map, but looking at slotting I've things I'd much rather use that Foot Stomp slot for than KB/KD.

 

KB and KD are the same dynamic, and it's just a matter of magnitude.  Footstomp is 0.67 base, which will be knockdown for any foe your level or higher, so you shouldn't be knocking back unless they are below your level, are vulnerable to knockback (like clockwork), or there is another source of knockdown which gets the total mag over 0.75 or so.

[Ironblade]

1)  Knockback isn't that big of a deal, in my opinion.  No one is going to be knocking AV's or EB's around and everything else dies fast enough that they're not much of a threat if they get scattered.

 

2)  It depends.  If you're already at, say, 85% or higher resist, one or two points more is a big deal.  If you're not that close, the regen is probably a better choice because it works against all damage types.

[Story Archer]

16 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

KB and KD are the same dynamic, and it's just a matter of magnitude.  Footstomp is 0.67 base, which will be knockdown for any foe your level or higher, so you shouldn't be knocking back unless they are below your level, are vulnerable to knockback (like clockwork), or there is another source of knockdown which gets the total mag over 0.75 or so.

 

This is what I wasn't getting, that the two are the same effect, just of different magnitude but it makes perfect sense.

[Without_Pause]

12 hours ago, Ironblade said:

1)  Knockback isn't that big of a deal, in my opinion.  No one is going to be knocking AV's or EB's around and everything else dies fast enough that they're not much of a threat if they get scattered.

 

2)  It depends.  If you're already at, say, 85% or higher resist, one or two points more is a big deal.  If you're not that close, the regen is probably a better choice because it works against all damage types.

1. Try playing a Kin and not worry about AoE KB.

2. The Resist they are talking about is for all damage as well. 

[Ironblade]

57 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

1. Try playing a Kin and not worry about AoE KB.

I have three characters with kinetics.  On easy content (99% of the game), it just doesn't matter much and it certainly doesn't bother me.

On the hard content (like Really Hard Way badge, where I always play a kin), the hard targets are AV's and no one is knocking them back.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

2. The Resist they are talking about is for all damage as well. 

I'm well aware of that - BUT - most resist sets do NOT have high resist against every damage type.  If you have 40% resist to toxic and have the chance to add 2%, don't waste your time.  Regeneration is of equal value whether you currently have 80% regen or 300% regen.  That extra 25% will add the same HP to either character.

[ZemX]

On 12/5/2023 at 9:31 AM, Story Archer said:

2) What's better for a medium Health Tank, +1.5% Resist all or 25% regen?

 

Tricky!  Not actually enough info to answer.  But here are some rules of thumb:

 

If you have high defense, the answer is probably "take the regen".

If you have low defense, the answer is definitely "take the resistance" (caveat: Unless you're already capped in the most common damage res types).

 

The reason for this is that resistance's value depends on how much damage is hitting you, because it takes away a percentage of that damage.  Regen is a fixed amount that scales up with your maximum hit points.  A 2400hp toon has a base regen of 10hp/s.   +25% regen always adds 2.5hp/s to whatever regen you already have, again, if your max. hp is 2400.   Scale it from there.

 

Upshot is that you have to be taking about 168hp/s incoming damage before 1.5% resistance equals the benefit of +25% regen.  (and note, I mean incoming damage as in "before any of your own resistances or absorb decrease this amount"). A high defense toon might be dodging most incoming damage.  At the very least, the difference between taking one or the other on such a toon might be a coin flip in most circumstances.  Then again, in any case where the crap hits the fan and you DO start taking a lot of damage, even on that high defense toon, that 1.5% res would easily be worth more than a paltry 2.5hp/s.  A lot of what you are doing building a tank for survival is building for those corner cases, because almost any tank can survive the ordinary cases.

 

Like I said... tricky.