Are Sentinels as bad as I'm hearing or is it trash talk?

[ShadesofDawn7971]

So, Sentinals in so many ways seem to fit what I've always wanted.  A true Iron Man style character.  But everywhere I look all I am seeing is that Sentinals are completely outclassed by every other AT at what they are supposed to be good at.  I've even seen several claims that Blasters, the glass cannon AT if there ever was one, is more survivable than a Sentinal due to their later power set add ons (Mace/Wu/etc).  My only hope is the fact that most of these seem to be from over a year ago and there was mention that the HC dev's were giving the AT a passover to improve its performance.

So I'm wondering, is the Sentinal's Damage as bad as I'm hearing (less than 40% of a blaster) while having defense/resist numbers so low that they have never been seen prior to the AT?  Or is it all over inflated bashing on the new kid on the block?  Was it fixed if it was that bad once upon a time?  And lastly, I see the thread on the power set break downs, but is there a guide out there on Sentinels in general?  I really really want to like what I'm seeing here, but I'm worried I'll feel severely let down.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Sentinels were pretty bad but no longer. A year or so ago they got a damage buff and their inherent was also improved. They now do almost as much damage as Blasters.

 

And no, Blasters are NEVER more survivable than a Sentinel. End game Blasters can slot a bunch of special IOs that seriously increase their ability to survive. But you can slot those same IOs on a Sentinel, which adds those IO bonuses to the armor that a Sentinel already has.

 

Whoever told you all of this isn't even giving you old info, what they've told you is just straight up wrong. Roll up your Iron Man character and have fun!

[FupDup]

For some added clarity on the damage thing, let's do some random samples. 

 

Lightning Bolt

Blaster: 102.6009

Sentinel: 100.3208

 

Fire Ball 

Blaster: 43.7931 + 12.5123 (higher target cap, admittedly)

Sentinel: 42.8198 + 12.2342

 

You can see a similar trend for most attacks, with the main discrepancies being from sniper attacks and nukes. Some Sentinel primaries have very good snipe replacements (like Elec) while some others not so much (like Ice). Direct damage comparisons between them are harder because it depends on whether the snipe is long cast or quick cast, and what the user's to-hit buffs are. For nukes, they are normalize to all share the same base recharge of 90 seconds and have reduced damage compared to Blaster versions. Depending on what the exact damage and recharge were on Blasters, this could either be an arguable gain (Thunderous Blast, Overcharge), a net loss (Rain of Arrows lol), or a wash. 

 

The main edge that Blasters get in the damage department is a larger array of melee attacks to choose from, which tend to be more powerful than ranged. Sentinels do get some melee in their epic pools but only one ST attack and one PBAOE at most. But if the Blaster is choosing to play at range, most of the time they're not living up to their full potential unless they're using either Devices or Tac Arrow. If they're using any other secondary at full range, they're really not gaining much over a similar Sentinel. 

 

Another wrench in the comparison is the inherents these two get. Blasters get a scaling damage buff when they use attacks, with that amount varying based on the attacks used. Sents can cast a -15% resist debuff on a single target and it ignores the effects of purple patch (normally, debuffs are weaker against enemies above your level, but Vulnerability is immune to this). 

 

Also consider that there are several armors available that directly enhance the user's damage output (Bio, Stone, Rad, Fire), which can help shrink the gap between the two ATs. 

 

The TL;DR is that your damage will be more than fine. As for survival...you get things like debuff protection (like DDR), mezz protection, burst healing, more comprehensive protection (against "exotic" damage types), and/or absorption depending on the armor you chose. A blaster with 32-45% ranged defense and 0% DDR is not going to facetank more damage than a Sentinel that is built even remotely well. 

Edited January 19 by FupDup

[Luminara]

56 minutes ago, ShadesofDawn7971 said:

So I'm wondering, is the Sentinal's Damage as bad as I'm hearing (less than 40% of a blaster)

 

Whoever spouted that nonsense is an imbecilic twat nozzle.  IF a direct 1:1 comparison of sentinel and blaster attacks were applicable (using attacks not modified for the sentinel archetype (some are, some aren't)), sentinel damage is only ~2% below blaster.

 

Example:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.assault_rifle.burst&at=sentinel

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.assault_rifle.burst&at=blaster

 

Example:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.electrical_blast.charged_bolts&at=sentinel

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.electrical_blast.charged_bolts&at=blaster

 

Circling back to the emphasis in the second sentence, sentinels aren't directly comparable to blasters because they weren't designed to be armored blasters.  Sentinels were designed to be ranged scrappers.  That's why they have a 1.1 modifier for both Ranged_Damage and Melee_Damage, and Vulnerability (intended to simulate critical hit damage over time), and scrapper target caps.  Don't look at the fact that both sentinels and blasters have ranged attacks and think they're directly comparable.  They aren't.

[ShadesofDawn7971]

Thank you all for your input!  This helps to settle my nerves a great deal and has convinced me my first toon to level 50 is going to be a Sentinal.

Now to decide if I want to use a somewhat familiar power set (Elec, Nrg, or Rad) or play with one of the two new sets I see in the list (Siesmic and Storm).

[FupDup]

Something to be aware of is that most Sentinel primaries and secondaries have some differences that are unique to the AT, which means even "familiar" sets might be different (like Elec blast for example having some good changes on Sents). 

[Heatstroke]

3 hours ago, ShadesofDawn7971 said:

Thank you all for your input!  This helps to settle my nerves a great deal and has convinced me my first toon to level 50 is going to be a Sentinal.

 

 

 

Just a word of advice. Dont care what other people think or say. Always play something for yourself and decide if you like it or not. 

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, ShadesofDawn7971 said:

Thank you all for your input!  This helps to settle my nerves a great deal and has convinced me my first toon to level 50 is going to be a Sentinal.

Now to decide if I want to use a somewhat familiar power set (Elec, Nrg, or Rad) or play with one of the two new sets I see in the list (Siesmic and Storm).

I had a lot of fun with Electric Blast on my Sentinel. The final power recharges so fast and the set has a great synergy with any armor set due to its endurance recovery secondary effects. 

[biostem]

5 hours ago, ShadesofDawn7971 said:

I'm wondering, is the Sentinal's Damage as bad as I'm hearing (less than 40% of a blaster) while having defense/resist numbers so low that they have never been seen prior to the AT?

I routinely lead and take the alpha on +4/x8 radios for teams that I lead.  The catch is to play intelligently and leverage the tools you have at your disposal.  For instance, utilize your vulnerability inherent as often as possible to maximize the damage you and your team deals.  Pick a primary and secondary that you both enjoy playing and that gel with your playstyle.  Know when to employ your AoEs and when to focus on single target attacks.  While blasters may possess overall higher damage, a sentinel can basically ignore most attackers in favor of dealing more and more damage...

[MonteCarla]

The realistic scenario for "Sentinel Regret" that some people are trying to convince you is a real problem.
You make a Sentinel. They dish out damage and can take it. After amassing large amounts of influence you can afford a theory-crafted Blaster who does a bit more damage and is just as survivable.

So, then you can go and make that Blaster too. There is no problem with Sentinels. 🙂

[Sovera]

The thing about Blaster VS Sentinel is not one looked at in spreadsheets but actual tests. What is the best Blaster Trapdoor time? What is the best Sentinel Trapdoor time? What are the best pylon times?

 

In all of these Blasters are comfortably ahead of Sentinels.

 

 

This does not make a Sentinel useless. WTF. Obviously the glass cannon all damage AT will do more damage than the armored ranged AT.

 

But what about those people who don't want to play a glass cannon? Well then, you get Sentinels! Is the person comfortable being a glass cannon? Then Blaster.

 

A Blaster can reach a Sentinel's durability, but at end game and with a castle of cards of gimmicks, being locked into certain incarnates, IOs, and epic pools. Is the player intent in breezing through leveling, never exemplar, have the know how to build (or copy) a strong build and earn the cash for it, as well as stick to max level content? Then a Blaster. Is the player intending to play at all levels, spend less money, is more annoyed by deaths, and have flexibility in picking incarnates and epic pools (or in my case not even using epic pools in their Sentinels)? Then a Sentinel.

 

 

Also important in the choice between both is that the extra damage from Blasters comes with the caveat that 'half' of it comes from melee damage. A Blaster that wants to be purely ranged is gimping their damage to, yes, Sentinel levels of damage. Is the player someone who likes going in and out of melee  (especially with a squishy character (and for some reason did not just roll a melee character since going into melee anyway))? Then Blaster. Does the player prefer doing all of their damage from range? Then a Sentinel.

 

 

As a last thing I play/played for a long time and I have yet to see a Sentinel be snarked or refused from a team. This is completely a forum thing.

 

Edited January 20 by Sovera

[StarseedWarrior]

17 hours ago, ShadesofDawn7971 said:

So, Sentinals in so many ways seem to fit what I've always wanted.  A true Iron Man style character.  But everywhere I look all I am seeing is that Sentinals are completely outclassed by every other AT at what they are supposed to be good at.  I've even seen several claims that Blasters, the glass cannon AT if there ever was one, is more survivable than a Sentinal due to their later power set add ons (Mace/Wu/etc).  My only hope is the fact that most of these seem to be from over a year ago and there was mention that the HC dev's were giving the AT a passover to improve its performance.

So I'm wondering, is the Sentinal's Damage as bad as I'm hearing (less than 40% of a blaster) while having defense/resist numbers so low that they have never been seen prior to the AT?  Or is it all over inflated bashing on the new kid on the block?  Was it fixed if it was that bad once upon a time?  And lastly, I see the thread on the power set break downs, but is there a guide out there on Sentinels in general?  I really really want to like what I'm seeing here, but I'm worried I'll feel severely let down.

It is all trash talk my guess its mostly pvpers or people from other private servers trying to make homecoming look bad or something its very weird because objectively when you play sentinals right they offer allot more in teams then lets say a scrapper especially depending on the sets you choose, as they should be compared to scrappers not blasters as I have learned from comments and my own experience playing my sent.

 

Here are some facts, sentinals are amazing soloers, you can relax and even party to play this char, this is in no way saying its easy mode but you do not need to chase down targets much so in many ways it makes it allot easier.

 

A good starting at with cheaper ways to build them and more flexible then other ats for choosing powers and slotting. For example with a blaster just to cap defenses you must follow a very linear path constantly, this is because its an overtune no matter how we choose to see it. So when people claim blasters are better they are not they are a one trick pony unlike sentinel.

 

With a sentinel you are usually the last to die in teams, you provide secondary effects from your at to help your teams, and you can focus on other things to help the team like side enemies on your own and etc.

 

They are a seriously misunderstood class many do not even realize you should put that debuff clicky on auto it makes a world of difference and they get melee bonuses and they are meant to be the real blappers.

[tidge]

My experience has been that Blasters certainly have MOAR AOE (targets). and access to more offense (via their secondaries) but that Sentinels are flat-out better at surviving.... cue the "defeat enemies can't hurt you" chorus. I don't like the "tank mage" description, but I do have a Sentinel that shrugs of +N spawns like a Tank. It certainly can't hold aggro, but it is a surprisingly hardy character.

 

How a Sentinel plays compared to a Blaster will IMO depend on the type of content being played (enemy types) as well as spawn sizes. Sentinels tend to have smaller AoEs, so small spawn sizes (x1) will drive them to go slower through a defeat all mission. Once spawn sizes increase, more enemies tend to be more clustered which doesn't hurt the Sentinels much in my experience.

[StarseedWarrior]

17 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Whoever spouted that nonsense is an imbecilic twat nozzle.  IF a direct 1:1 comparison of sentinel and blaster attacks were applicable (using attacks not modified for the sentinel archetype (some are, some aren't)), sentinel damage is only ~2% below blaster.

 

Example:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.assault_rifle.burst&at=sentinel

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.assault_rifle.burst&at=blaster

 

Example:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_ranged.electrical_blast.charged_bolts&at=sentinel

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.electrical_blast.charged_bolts&at=blaster

 

Circling back to the emphasis in the second sentence, sentinels aren't directly comparable to blasters because they weren't designed to be armored blasters.  Sentinels were designed to be ranged scrappers.  That's why they have a 1.1 modifier for both Ranged_Damage and Melee_Damage, and Vulnerability (intended to simulate critical hit damage over time), and scrapper target caps.  Don't look at the fact that both sentinels and blasters have ranged attacks and think they're directly comparable.  They aren't.

Wow I did not even know it was only 2 percent ive heard other numbers but I do not remember it wasnt even that much but I know I have never seen 2 percent behind blasters before. I think its because no one really covers this game anymore with videos and what not into the real deep rpg aspects of this mmorpg. Thank you for clarifying this I cannot believe people make such a big deal out of 2 percent!

[FupDup]

26 minutes ago, StarseedWarrior said:

Wow I did not even know it was only 2 percent ive heard other numbers but I do not remember it wasnt even that much but I know I have never seen 2 percent behind blasters before. I think its because no one really covers this game anymore with videos and what not into the real deep rpg aspects of this mmorpg. Thank you for clarifying this I cannot believe people make such a big deal out of 2 percent!

To be fair, Blasters do get a stacking damage buff from Defiance that widens the gap a bit, and Blasters also have a larger variety of melee attacks to supplement their primaries (the game's design tends to favor melee over range most of the time).

 

But even with those factors, the gap is definitely not as huge as many people like to harp on about. 

[Reiska]

It's trash talk.  Sentinels were fun before they got the buff (don't get me wrong, they did need it).  They're more fun now.

 

The only issue I think they have now is that due to the way their inherent functions, they don't stack well in teams with multiples (like the old Brute problem, but not as severe).

[Renatos1023]

Sentinels are a blast. One of my first 50s after finding Homecoming was an Ice/Ice Sentinel because I wanted to try the new AT. They are very versatile, and when I play my high-level ones, I definitely break alpha (I won't say that I Tank, as I can't hold that aggro, but I am hard to kill).

 

One of my favorite characters is my Dark/Ninjitsu Sent. Solid defenses, backed up by all of Dark/'s -to-hit. I jump in, hit Blackstar, and just never worry about death. It is definitely a combo that I would recommend.

 

I just rolled a new Water/Ice Sent. that I got to 30 today (Ice is my favorite defensive set across all the melee ATs). While /Ninjitsu and /Energy are arguably stronger secondaries for a Sent., /Ice actually gets a T9 that it can use with no huge crash at the end. Overall, Sentinels are, as many have said, the class that a lot of us wanted. At higher levels, and once slotted decently (not even IO'd out) you can expect similar survivability as a Scrapper IMO -- except with the bonus of range and a fast-recharging nuke. 

Edited January 22 by Renatos1023

[oldskool]

Its been a while, but at one point I had a comment that the true power of the Sentinel was to generate troll posts on how useless the AT vs X ATs. 

 

One can certainly make some valid complaints about one thing vs the other, but more often than not discussions around the Sentinel generally devolve into hyperbolic nonsense. Just take much of the criticism with a grain of salt (some of it is valid, but a lot of it is blown way out of proportion). 

[Exqzr984]

Some personal and completely subjective observations... 

 

I run alot of 50+ Radios and DA Repeatables for anyone who wants to join.   So I see a wide variety of team mixes and they are constantly evolving.

 

As a Sentinal I play Midrange.  I have lots of crowd control.,  a big  emergency heal and more then enough damage to feel impactful.  Almost always the last to die -  holding everything off so the party can recover.  I like this.  I feel its the type of play a Leader should aspire to.  Hold the line. Help those in trouble. Blaze a trail and make the run smoother for everyone.

 

I have never once seen a Blaster play with this sort of mentality - leader or not.  This is not a critique of Blaster players - they do what they do.  I just think its a different mindset, a different approach to the game.

 

Also, I have noticed that Blaster Players tend to be either very good or very bad.  Sentinel Players seem to be more ... consistent (solid?)

 

A Blaster heavy team can get ruined pretty quick and the rage quits are frequent. Often a Blaster will offer to get their *Tank* if there are too many of them.

A Sentinel heavy team? Might go a bit slower, but they don't break and don't need to alt in with a tank - ever.

 

If I had to be on a team of all Blasters or all Sentinels, I would go with the Sentinels every single time.  Its not numbers, speed, or which is better, its the Dynamic of how the AT plays.

 

 

[string5]

Another thing to consider is if and how you endgame and how you level..

As for leveling I think Sentinels are a bit easier to level.

 

If you solo or are in smaller groups their added toughness makes Sentinels more forgiving.

If you level in larger groups you should have someone to help with the aggro and healing so their survivability is loess important and in that case I prefer a blaster.

 

If you just don't do a lot of engame or you shelf your toon after you max it out then I would consider a blaster as I think it is better in group endgame play.

 

When you have your toon completely IO'd and incarnate powered, I see very few added deaths when playing in groups with a Blaster vs a Sentinel and on my Fire primary toons I get a lot more kills and the nukes are way more powerful.

 

If you like a good ranged toon that has a lot of control/safety, try an Ice or x/Storm build.

 

You may also want to ask this question in the Blaster forum as there may be additional useful opinions than just the Sentinel  group.

 

 

[BurtHutt]

I enjoyed Sents before the recent upgrades. I always team and they could survive through lots and dealt a bit of damage too. It was still a fun toon. These upgrades are nice and make the AT appealing to more players. To each their own. 

 

I still feel it's too bad they didn't go in a more unique direction with the Sentinel upgrade but what can ya do.

[drbuzzard]

On 1/20/2024 at 6:47 AM, Sovera said:

The thing about Blaster VS Sentinel is not one looked at in spreadsheets but actual tests. What is the best Blaster Trapdoor time? What is the best Sentinel Trapdoor time? What are the best pylon times?

 

In all of these Blasters are comfortably ahead of Sentinels.

 

I am not as expert as this topic as some, but when I looked into the numbers on these things I noticed some curious things about blaster numbers. The Trapdoor times allow the blaster to run the defensive buff from P2W (for status protection), and the pylon times often seem to have someone else holding the aggro. Funny that. In the case of Trapdoor it would make for some fun times without that buff since there's all those mezzes being tossed around. I know blasters can deal with the attacks from a pylon though, but then it's about tradeoffs to get that sturdy. 

 

I don't try to enter into those competitions as I know my limitations. I don't play hardcore enough to be competitive, and honestly I don't care enough. 

[drbuzzard]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:13 PM, BurtHutt said:

I enjoyed Sents before the recent upgrades. I always team and they could survive through lots and dealt a bit of damage too. It was still a fun toon. These upgrades are nice and make the AT appealing to more players. To each their own. 

 

I still feel it's too bad they didn't go in a more unique direction with the Sentinel upgrade but what can ya do.

 

About the only thing I didn't like about the upgrade is that vulnerability does not stack from multiple sentinels. If it did you could have some very mean sentinel superteams. 

[drbuzzard]

A thought in general however, if sentinels were any closer to blasters in damage, there'd be little reason to put up with being a glass cannon. The main place where things end up blurring is because IOs make it easy to make yourself more sturdy, but don't necessarily pump damage as hard (I don't want to step into the proc swamp here). 

[Parabola]

17 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

 

I am not as expert as this topic as some, but when I looked into the numbers on these things I noticed some curious things about blaster numbers. The Trapdoor times allow the blaster to run the defensive buff from P2W (for status protection), and the pylon times often seem to have someone else holding the aggro. Funny that. In the case of Trapdoor it would make for some fun times without that buff since there's all those mezzes being tossed around. I know blasters can deal with the attacks from a pylon though, but then it's about tradeoffs to get that sturdy. 

 

I don't try to enter into those competitions as I know my limitations. I don't play hardcore enough to be competitive, and honestly I don't care enough. 

I basically disregard trapdoor testing for this exact reason. If they are going to allow certain temp buffs or certain types of inspiration the whole thing is invalid. Allow everything or nothing. The character building game is one of trade offs, you accept limitations in one area to push your performance in others. By allowing certain limitations to be ignored they are favouring one set of decisions over others - it is no longer a level playing field.