Focused Feedback: New Player Experience (NPE) Improvements

[gameboy1234]

29 minutes ago, Darmian said:

No, Source is singular.  Otherwise it would be sources. Source here being read as a mass noun, like the sea.  The sea is, not the sea are.

 

I just looked this up (for other reasons).  "Collective nouns" are nouns that refer to a group of things: team, group, committee, people, class, family, etc.  Yes, they are singular and take singular verbs: "The team is here now," not "the team are here now."

 

Very occasionally it is correct to use the plural verb with a collective noun, if you are emphasizing the individual members of the group.  It is super rare though.  "The committee participate in various volunteer activities in their private lives."

 

https://academicguides.waldenu.edu/writingcenter/grammar/subjectverbagreement

 

[Wavicle]

8 hours ago, Paradox Fate said:

Not sure if we need the designation of 'Primal Earth' and 'Praetorian Earth', since that could confuse new players.

Maybe just stick to the most common line people know it for, 'City of Heroes'.

 

For Praetorian Earth, just name it 'Praetoria' and add to the description that this is part of the Going Rogue expansion.

 

This please. I appreciate the work that went into those new logos, but I think this is a better idea.

[lemming]

40 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Can we change this to 8? That way you can still get it by getting an exploration accolade power?

I think this makes a lot of sense.

 

• You can do the usual Atlas Tour to get it
• Less coding if it was "accolade or X number of badges"
• Not having to correct people in Help that explain the old way of getting the LRTP

 

[Laucianna]

9 hours ago, Laucianna said:

Honestly this will help a TON towards new players knowing what to expect from a Kheldian ❤️ I will need to check the values against what the other AT's are later to see if anything should be changed as I feel like the PB melee damage and Crowd Control (So many kb/kd attacks count as great CC imo) could be 1 point higher, but without seeing what the other AT numbers are I'm not going to cement that idea XD

So looking at the numbers I feel like at least for Peacebringer it should be more akin to

Survivability  - 8 (Same as brute even though Brutes have an extra 5% resist, PeaceBringers sit at 85% which is 10% above a scrapper who has a 7 ranking and it's a ton easier to get capped resist on a PeaceBringer)
Melee Damage - 7 at least, I mean a tanker is at a 7 and brutes at a 9
Ranged Damage - 6/7 which is on par with defenders/corrupters and thanks to the damage scaling we should be around there with our Nova form
Crowd Control - 4, still think with Pulsar (Although no one takes it) and with all the kb that can be kd we should be be at the same level as a Blaster (4) if not higher
Support - 3 seems good compared to the other ATs ❤️
Pets - Again 2 seems good as all we have are suicide balls similar to some blasters (Also at 2)

These are just my opinions @Jimmy 🙂
 

[Mezmera]

Very good intent!  I think that the best tutorials are the later ones but the most populous area will always be to load into Atlas park.  Having large groups to join and play with is ultimately more helpful since you chance meeting some seasoned players that way.  

 

Ideally it would be the Villain tutorial with a load in to Atlas.  Primal should be emphasized while Praetoria is for the more advanced and less pronounced.  

 

As for the starter powers yeah great idea!

[lemming]

12 hours ago, macskull said:

none of the connecting zones to AP (or the lower-level zones accessible via train) have two badges that are particularly close to the areas where you'd enter those zones.

There are two pretty close to where you come out in Recluse's Victory...

 

I did the atlas tour, realized I might as well pop into RV for the Ouro portal and then thought, might as well.   Definitely not a recommended for new players...

[Doc_Scorpion]

- When completing/exiting the tutorial mission with Flower Knight, you do not get "return to contact" and a pip on your Nav ring.  This matches what happens on Live, but if we're concentrating on the new player experience, perhaps now is the time to look at that.

- Ditto the colors of the arrows over the heads of the various contacts, there's quite a bit of weirdness and inconsistency going on.  Need to run the tutorial a couple of times to see if I can express it better.

@lemming  Yeah, with the jet pack and athletic run, it's actually pretty easy to get the extra two badges.  (Even if there are places that a new player probably shouldn't try.)  The barrier to getting them isn't having them available, it's figuring out how to use your travel powers and how to find where those badges are.  (Maybe it's time to import some of the things that are on the Vidiot Maps maps into the base game.)

That being said, I think the new system is inferior to the old.  Players have to travel outside of Atlas to get destinations to TP to, so there's no particular reason to have to travel outside of Atlas to earn it.  But on the flip side, yeah, we need to introduce players to the idea that there's more to city than Atlas...

[gameboy1234]

17 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

Opps, one more: in Atlas Park, I have Johnathan St. James Smythe as my contact and marked on the nav bar, but I was told to go to Ms Lib.  Might be confusing.  Ms Lib should probably tell me to talk the Matthew Habashy. 

 

This is getting very extra, but I'll add some suggestions here ("extra" means I'm just piling stuff on here, might be too much to implement).

 

Having Ms. Lib finish the intro with a short tour of Atlas Park after the Outbreak tutorial might extend the tutorial nicely.  We should at least think about doing the same red side.

 

1. Send the player to P2W so they know where she's at.

 

2. P2W could say "Hey remember that you can use Enhancements to increase your powers?  Here's some more for you." And then just dump the prestige enhancements on the player.  That way new players don't have to know to go look for them.

 

3. I think P2W has a really weird menu for new players.  Is there any real reason that new players should know what the old Prestige Powers are and why they're listed as such?  I think it might be better to list all powers by function -- travel, attack, utility, fun, etc. -- and then just list all powers in the appropriate category.  List temporary powers here too and just mark them clearly as temporary.

 

4. Now that I think about it, it might be OK to list some powers as "Beginning Powers" or "Starting Powers" or something, and just put all the early freebie powers there, plus the cheap jetpack.  Means new players have one stop to find all the starting goodies.

 

5. Prob should also have Ms. Lib point out where the store(s) (the Longbow ones) are so players can buy and sell.

 

6. When I did Outbreak and got sent to Johnathan St. James Smythe, he sent me to read the history plaque of Atlas.  This was a nice touch, explaining to players that the plaques are an intractable thing.  Could have Ms Lib do the same if those missions aren't going to be used any more.

 

7. Could also have Ms Lib send the player to Longbow Sewer Inspector to learn about DFB.  (I mentioned this already but I wanted to include it in this list.)

 

8. Finally Ms Lib should send the player to Matthew Habashy rather than one of the old contacts inside City Hall.

 

OK, I think I got that all out of my system.  Thanks for working hard on this for us!

 

[Tatterhood]

Matthew Habashy's whole arc is a direct followup to the Galaxy City storyline. His dialogue when you first talk to him clearly assumes that you just did that tutorial and makes no attempt to explain what is going on to people who skipped it or did Outbreak instead. Sending brand new players there after explicitly discouraging them from playing the Galaxy tutorial is just going to be confusing. The old City Hall contacts aren't that bad, and the game will (for better or worse) direct you to Twinshot when you get to level 5 anyway.

[Sovera]

Following on Gameboy1234's suggestion something that puzzled me is how hidden the options to permanently have in display mob's HP bars and names. Most people are not even aware this can be done.

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

That being said, I think the new system is inferior to the old.  Players have to travel outside of Atlas to get destinations to TP to, so there's no particular reason to have to travel outside of Atlas to earn it.  But on the flip side, yeah, we need to introduce players to the idea that there's more to city than Atlas...

 

This is sort of the point. If you are in Atlas and only have badges from Atlas, where are you teleporting to? 🙂

The goal is for players to learns the basics of standard zone travel (via trams, ferries, and tunnels - both physical and magical) before gaining quick travel, so they know how to actually get to new zones to add to LRT.

[Jimmy]

42 minutes ago, Tatterhood said:

Matthew Habashy's whole arc is a direct followup to the Galaxy City storyline. His dialogue when you first talk to him clearly assumes that you just did that tutorial and makes no attempt to explain what is going on to people who skipped it or did Outbreak instead. Sending brand new players there after explicitly discouraging them from playing the Galaxy tutorial is just going to be confusing. The old City Hall contacts aren't that bad, and the game will (for better or worse) direct you to Twinshot when you get to level 5 anyway.

 

You're not wrong - but a little bit of narrative incongruity is much better than than the player not understanding the basics of the game. The sad reality is that the Galaxy City tutorial just isn't a very good tutorial. Annoyingly, the Praetorian tutorial is actually the most effective one - but you're then in Praetoria, which is way too hard for a brand new player.

 

My hope is that we can do some improvements to all the tutorials in i28, but in this patch we're specifically focusing on low hanging fruit.

[Tatterhood]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

You're not wrong - but a little bit of narrative incongruity is much better than than the player not understanding the basics of the game. The sad reality is that the Galaxy City tutorial just isn't a very good tutorial. Annoyingly, the Praetorian tutorial is actually the most effective one - but you're then in Praetoria, which is way too hard for a brand new player.

Oh, I agree with that part at this point, I was just responding to the suggestion that players coming out of Outbreak should be directed to Matthew Habashy which I don't think makes sense.

[Kaika]

20 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

 

You're not wrong - but a little bit of narrative incongruity is much better than than the player not understanding the basics of the game. The sad reality is that the Galaxy City tutorial just isn't a very good tutorial. Annoyingly, the Praetorian tutorial is actually the most effective one - but you're then in Praetoria, which is way too hard for a brand new player.

 

My hope is that we can do some improvements to all the tutorials in i28, but in this patch we're specifically focusing on low hanging fruit.

Yeah that certainly seems like a "next issue" sorta thing.

 

I would also change the message when creating a praetorian character to recommend they do the praetorian tutorial even if they have done the others, as it's what establishes the setting and introduces you to the unique faction system. Without it you're just awkwardly dropped in Nova Praetoria with no introduction. Praetor White doesn't even give you the faction specific conversation, and you get no proper introduction to the factions. You also miss out on how to do missions for your faction undercover. As of now, I can see players assuming they wont learn anything from this as they likely wont be starting here and just skipping it assuming they wont miss anything.

 

Is there also a way we can get the origin attacks and athletic run placed directly on the hot bar at character creation? ATM you need to retrieve them from your powers list and new players would likely have no idea there is a extra attack waiting for them in there, as there is no indication and I can't imagine why anyone would think to look.

Edited January 28 by Riot Siren

[gameboy1234]

17 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

a little bit of narrative incongruity is much better than than the player not understanding the basics of the game.

 

Random thought: if you go with the idea of having an NPC give a tour of Atlas, at the end they could say "BTW while you were dealing with Outbreak, Galaxy City happened, blah blah." and then the player has an excuse to feel they were informed about the events before talking to Matthew.  If any part of Matthew's text refers to events that the player personally dealt with, then that text should be changed to the player understanding the events happened, but not necessarily to them personally.  Might smooth things over.

 

[StarkWhite]

Personally I'm fine with Outbreak leading to the City Hall contacts and Galaxy City leading to Matthew. Most of those older missions are just fine, and it's about time the more tailored-to-your-origin early experience got some attention, as opposed to Matthew's one-size-fits-all experience. I miss the days when a character's early story didn't necessarily look like others', as opposed to "everyone gets Savior of Atlas Park, then everyone goes to fight Skulls with the Regulators" (or worse, "everyone does DFB until their brains fall out").

[lemming]

I would say since the granting of the Long Range Teleporter mentions needing badges in other zones.

 

"Collecting any Exploration badge in a zone will add it as a destination to your Long Range Teleporter."

 

Though, not all zones allow that, and maybe point out, it only works for certain zones.  Perhaps in the power description.

[Lockely]

8 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

I was about to make the opposite suggestion and recommend a mention of P2W before entering, or some kind of indication that folks should talk to her.  Alternatively, and perhaps splitting the baby -- place the P2W at the end of the tutorial with a suggestion that you talk to her if you need "equipment."

Maybe a neutered/toned down P2W vendor that just has stuff you're going to want to snag on any new character, i.e. three prestige attacks, alternate sprints, and Inner Inspiration/Mystic Fortune/Secondary Mutagen? Instead of calling it a P2W vendor it could be like, the New Deployment Provisioner.

[Wavicle]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:04 PM, Jimmy said:

Hello! I have a request.

 

Currently, Peacebringers and Warshades (hello @Laucianna 👀) show ? for all stats during character creation, like so:

 

 

While this does have some mild thematic significance, it's rather unhelpful for new players. In the next build we'll be adding numbers here for Kheldians, and also potentially updating some other ATs if we think the numbers aren't quite right (for example, Arachnos Soldiers have a pets rating of 2, which is clearly inaccurate).

 

These are the proposed numbers for Peacebringers and Warshades:

 

 

 

Please do let me know what you think. We're definitely open for input on the Kheldian numbers, and for any other ATs that could do with having their numbers tweaked.

 

Keep in mind that the goal here is to better communicate the strengths and weaknesses of each AT to inexperienced players, rather than be a raw reflection of the actual balance of each AT.

 

I also would like to add something:

I understand that it would take a fair amount of adjustment, but I think it REALLY makes sense that the new Role Diversity Bonus should include ALL SIX of the roles listed here. THAT would be an aid to Clarity for new players.

Edited January 29 by Wavicle

[lemming]

And something possibly related.

The p2w in Pocket D, Fort Trident, and The Crucible can be used while in a TF.

The ones in Atlas, Mercy, and Firebase Zulu can not.

 

Can we get the ones that do not talk to "busy" players get over their reluctance?

[Reiska]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

You're not wrong - but a little bit of narrative incongruity is much better than than the player not understanding the basics of the game. The sad reality is that the Galaxy City tutorial just isn't a very good tutorial. Annoyingly, the Praetorian tutorial is actually the most effective one - but you're then in Praetoria, which is way too hard for a brand new player.

 

My hope is that we can do some improvements to all the tutorials in i28, but in this patch we're specifically focusing on low hanging fruit.

 

Serious question: how feasible (and how controversial) would it be to look at fixing the tuning of low-level goldside to be less hostile to new players?

[StarkWhite]

I think it's fine to have content aimed at more experienced players.

Half of the resonance of Praetoria is lost if you aren't already familiar with the Primal Earth counterparts of the various characters and organizations.

[Wavicle]

17 minutes ago, Reiska said:

 

Serious question: how feasible (and how controversial) would it be to look at fixing the tuning of low-level goldside to be less hostile to new players?

 

I like having a harder starting area option. You can always put your difficulty at -1/x1 and it should be doable even for new folks.

Something telling new players about the difficulty settings and how to access them would be good though!

[Lunar Ronin]

28 minutes ago, Reiska said:

 

Serious question: how feasible (and how controversial) would it be to look at fixing the tuning of low-level goldside to be less hostile to new players?

 

Controversial.  One of the main reasons why I play red and gold sides (and not blue), is because they are not so easy that I could roll my face on my keyboard and still win.

[Dev Unitas]

1 hour ago, Reiska said:

Serious question: how feasible (and how controversial) would it be to look at fixing the tuning of low-level goldside to be less hostile to new players?

Quite controversial, and a decent amount of work that could be going into other projects with wider reach.

 

The way I personally see it, the value of Praetoria is as an alternate levelling experience for seasoned players with at least a rudimentary lore understanding. It provides some additional spice when the blue and redside levelling experience from 1-30 has grown stale. So it makes sense that, in being directed at that crowd, it is tuned more appropriately for their general level of skill. That's, again, my personal opinion though, not explicitly that of the team.