SG issues, recruiting, storage, retention, socializing, teaming

[Snarky]

You are all way too familiar.  I will skim a few major things about SGs.

 

These were set up to encourage long term MMORPG relationships.  Lets be generous and call it a mixed success.

 

The first issue is alting.  The only thing I see to solve this is global channels.

 

The second issue (on "main" or often run/much loved toons) is ONE SG per toon.  

A) a lot of people want a personal storage base

B) Even on characters with no interest in a personal base you are locked into ONE SG

C) Grouping on CoH MMORPG is way more organic and fluid  than a rigid one SG per toon system wants to enforce

 

Lets discuss possible solutions

1) More than one SG per toon.  This is the "gold standard" in my opinion. It addresses 90%+ of all issues identified. What drives me mad about this is that it is literally in so many comic books.  a LOT of supers are involved in more than one super team.  I mean a LOT.

2) Somehow expanding coalition functionality with more ability to see who/what is going on in coaltion SGs.  Downside, locked into only Coalition SG network so still limited.

3) Hybrid SG/Coalition model.  Set up and tailored by each character you are involved in "SG chat" for each SG you are interested in, and (preferably) can see if anyone is on in the SG (that is all you need, not details, just on)  This would be an invite from an SG member with permissions.

 

 

[Luminara]

4) Post suggestions in the right forum.

 

Numpty.

[Snarky]

27 minutes ago, Luminara said:

4) Post suggestions in the right forum.

 

Numpty.

This is not a suggestion.  It is a discussion.  Can i offer you a refreshment?

[Lunar Ronin]

SCoRE/Resurgence killed the reasons for supergroups to exist.  By removing prestige and making supergroup bases available to all for free, there's nothing for a supergroup to work towards, and there are no other benefits for belonging to a supergroup.  There's nothing that a supergroup can provide that an in-game global channel and either a Discord server or web forum and Mumble or TeamSpeak server (if you want to old school it), can't.  Not only that, but as you've pointed out, you actually hurt yourself by joining a supergroup with other people as you limit your own storage instead of just using your own personal supergroup base.

 

There is now literally no reason for supergroups to exist.  Not a single one.  I personally don't mind, but if people want to bring back the concept of supergroups to Homecoming, then they need a complete and total overhaul.  There needs to be some tangible benefit to belonging to one, and right now that simply doesn't exist.

[SuperPlyx]

A lot of games give you a personal space/instance/base as well as giving the same type of space to a guild/SG. That could solve the storage issue

So I could have a batcave and still belong to the league and use there hall of justice.

[Lyrium]

Being able to be part of several SG would be great. I have my own SG for storage and a cool base, but I would like to join a SG to socialize a bit more. LFG is too wide.

[Ukase]

So..I think SG bases and SGs in general are an interesting part of the game. I remember in retail getting invited into an SG with no prior teaming or anything. Just a blind invite and then, not being asked, but being TOLD to convert my costume into "SG mode", which changed my colors to make me look kind of like a bumble bee. These folks were probably the experience/adventure people wanted - but I couldn't stand it. I was on an emp/electric defender, my first character ever. And these crazy people wanted to do +4 stuff. Well, they wanted the XP. What they didn't realize is that I was just learning the game, hadn't a clue about slotting, or power choices for that matter. And the harder the content is, the more I would have to heal. It was annoying, not fun at all for me. 
I quit as soon as that first mission was over. It wasn't their fault - it was mine. Noob player, but I felt like if I'm going to be in a group, I want to be in a group with people I like. And it made more sense to me at the time (and still does) to team with folks FIRST before you decide to be in a group with them. 

With the options to use Discord - which I'm not a big fan of - people end up talking about non-game stuff, and can sometimes amuse or piss off people. I tell the worst jokes I can find just to punish my team for having me use Discord. I'd rather not use it - but damn, it's a lot easier to say "Try to avoid the nullifier force fields after the riders die. If you're in one, do your best to get out of it, asap", than it is to type it out, especially while in combat. 

So, I use it. It's a good tool. But, you know, there are background noises from a few folks every now and then. What'd we expect? Not everyone is playing in a basement all alone. 

Still, a super group, as it is now, allows for people to see at a glance who's on, and who's not. Beats the whole "Anybody home" in the global chat channel. 
If we were to suddenly be allowed to join multiple groups, this is kind of how I see things happening for me: 

"What? Join your group? Sorry, who are you? " 

OR

"Um..hi bird brain. Yeah, I guess I could join." 
"What? I have to join your discord to? Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Okay" 
"9pm? But that's during the other event that I do at that time." 
"Why are your SG colors so lame? I can't look evil/heroic wearing <color>. Come on, don't you think about this stuff?" 
"Do I have to actually talk in your chat channel? I'm trying to play a game here, not chit chat with you about <whatever>"

BUT: 
I can keep my own stuff in my own base. No need to worry about permissions. 
I don't have to drop 20 fps immediately upon entering this SG base that's really trying to impress folks. 


The bottom two (for me) outweigh the foolishness of the top potential issues. In many ways, I kind of think like Groucho Marx. I don't want to belong to any group that would have me as a member. I mean, as a player, and as a joke teller, I'm only slightly better than mediocre. But as a human being, I can be a real jerk. That's just me being me. I try to be nice. It just doesn't come easily and sometimes, I'll let you have it. And keep letting you have it. Because you deserve it, don't you think? 


The sad part is, I don't know how it can be done. I'm not saying it can't be, but it's beyond me. I think about object oriented programming. 
Can an npc be a freak and a carnie? I just don't know if the game can resolve the differences. 
 

[cranebump]

I'd suggest that there be certain TF's only SG's could do, but people would just temporarily join, complete the run, then quit the SG (I assume).

[Andreah]

On 4/11/2024 at 1:30 PM, Lunar Ronin said:

There is now literally no reason for supergroups to exist.  Not a single one.  I personally don't mind, but if people want to bring back the concept of supergroups to Homecoming, then they need a complete and total overhaul.  There needs to be some tangible benefit to belonging to one, and right now that simply doesn't exist.

And yet there are many, many supergroups and we even get into intense drama over membership in them. 

 

It's because there are still good reasons to belong to them. 

[Triumphant]

RP'ers will always have a good reason to join a supergroup.  If you're not an RP'er, there are probably still plenty of reasons you might find to join one.  Other people may never want to belong to a SG, and that's okay too.

I'm not against the idea of being able to belong to more than one at a time.  The pessimist in me wonders if it might not be a herculean task to code for, though.

[Snarky]

5 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

RP'ers will always have a good reason to join a supergroup.  If you're not an RP'er, there are probably still plenty of reasons you might find to join one.  Other people may never want to belong to a SG, and that's okay too.

I'm not against the idea of being able to belong to more than one at a time.  The pessimist in me wonders if it might not be a herculean task to code for, though.

Not just RPers.  My MMORPG online persona has morphed drastically from its early CoV days, but I try to be "in character" while I game.  

 

I started on Liberty as a redsider.  Over 6 months I grew a huge SG/Base.  I now realize that most of the "SG members" were really just the crew of redside alts for people on Liberty.  I kicked non active and everyone had a TP base.  

 

I moved to Freedumb, but after a year+ there I found a crew on Virtue.  Brickhouse.  It was mostly a hotly active chat channel.  Was a great crew.

 

On Homecoming I fell into Cosmic Council during its last hyperactive year (pretty quiet now, except for some stuff Ukase runs and swears he is not leadership/organizing).  I recently found Justice Superteamers.  They have scheduled activities twice a week, with discord and lots of fun.  I keep a lazy eye on Task Force junkies and a couple other channels.  

 

It is through these big active groups that I have the most fun (and get the hardest badges!)  I have come to like discord. So much faster to learn things.  So many puns.

 

I have a great hope that the best days of Supergroups are ahead of them.  This will require some type of tuning them to what they actually are in game, and not a shrug and "that is the way the OG Devs made them" attitude however.

[Snakebit]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:30 PM, Lunar Ronin said:

SCoRE/Resurgence killed the reasons for supergroups to exist.

 

Supergroups didn't exist on live to earn prestige or IOPS or anything else. They existed for community.  I was part of RO and Pinball Wizards for quite a while, and I don't recall anyone ever saying "hey, let's do a raid" or "hey, we need everyone in mode this weekend, we're low on prestige". I belonged to several other SGs with capped memberships. Again, never once was asked to run in SG, never once did a raid or IOP, never once did anything remotely related to the mechanics of SG gameplay. 

 

I logged in, checked gfriends, checked server friends, checked SG lists, invited or asked for invites.  The only difference in HC is that I can build MY OWN base with MY STUFF the I WANT and still check gfriends, server friends, ask for or send invites. The only thing SCORE has done is to give me a time sink that doesn't involve swatting mobs. (which I thank them for). 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 4/11/2024 at 11:30 AM, Lunar Ronin said:

There is now literally no reason for supergroups to exist.  Not a single one. 

 
As an almost exclusively solo player and as a formerly addicted marketer, I have a lot of single player SGs and also a lot of multiplayer ones.

 

Storage:  any fresh default character generally creates their own SG and the first thing I do is make 15 enhancement storage containers.

 

Specialization:  if I’m working a particular niche, which I usually am, I’ll have several characters involved.  Some create product; some convert product; some sell product to other producers of mine; some sell product to retail.  Having access to common storage is very useful.

 

Roleplaying:  I’ve got plenty of light RP supergroups with themes.

 

Player names:  if I can make a given character‘s name even more amusing by showing the SG name as well, you bet your bippy I’m going to do that.

[Lunar Ronin]

5 hours ago, Snakebit said:

 

Supergroups didn't exist on live to earn prestige or IOPS or anything else. They existed for community.  I was part of RO and Pinball Wizards for quite a while, and I don't recall anyone ever saying "hey, let's do a raid" or "hey, we need everyone in mode this weekend, we're low on prestige". I belonged to several other SGs with capped memberships. Again, never once was asked to run in SG, never once did a raid or IOP, never once did anything remotely related to the mechanics of SG gameplay. 

 

I logged in, checked gfriends, checked server friends, checked SG lists, invited or asked for invites.  The only difference in HC is that I can build MY OWN base with MY STUFF the I WANT and still check gfriends, server friends, ask for or send invites. The only thing SCORE has done is to give me a time sink that doesn't involve swatting mobs. (which I thank them for). 

 

 

Yes, but that was 20 years ago.  Times change.  That community can now be provided by an in-game global channel (which didn't exist for the first year of the game), and either Discord or a web forum and Mumble or TeamSpeak just as easily.  Which again means that there's no longer anything that a supergroup can provide that an in-game global channel and Discord cannot.  So why join a supergroup, as doing so would just limit your storage potential instead of using a personal supergroup base and you can connect with your friends just as easily outside of a supergroup?

 

There's just no longer any reason for supergroups to exist other than for personal supergroup bases... which again, personal.  No additional people.

Edited April 13 by Lunar Ronin

[Techwright]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:39 PM, SuperPlyx said:

A lot of games give you a personal space/instance/base as well as giving the same type of space to a guild/SG. That could solve the storage issue

So I could have a batcave and still belong to the league and use there hall of justice.

 

This is what I've pondered for a while.  I've no knowledge of what it would take, but could a private base (aka "batcave") system be cloned from the supergroup system?  Then supergroups be reserved for a plurality of players. 

[WumpusRat]

I have a bunch of SGs that are just me (or just me and one or two other people), and a couple characters in larger groups.

Generally when I start making characters, I'll end up with a "theme" that a lot of times kind of overlaps with other characters, so I'll lump them all into one SG.

For instance, my aliens that are hunting Rikti are all members of a SG that is "Members of the Sanguine Dancer Crew". They have their own base (the ship) and such, and has around 15 characters in it.

Another would be all my D&D/Pathfinder characters, who are part of "Greyhawk Adventurers", and likewise have their own base and such, and has around 30 characters.

Plus a few more, but you get the idea.

 

If they could turn the Vault into a mass shared storage facility for all your characters and divorce storage from SGs, that would be pretty cool. Would certainly make things more flexible. Though I'd probably still have several SGs of my own just for sorting all my characters into.

[drgantz]

For similar reasons,  I also refuse to join SGs.

In the old days, I liked Guilds/SGs.  I enjoyed socializing, and grouping  together.  I liked using guild chat and only using voice chat for grouped missions.  Now, I try to use SG chat, and someone tells me to use discord.  I don't like discord  for regular chat.  I'm often watching TV or talking with my gf on the phone, and discord gets in the way.

I've joined several SGs and found that the public SG base is better than private SG bases.  The public base is small and simple.  It is easy to use its features.  The SG owned SG bases are large and complicated.

[Shenanigunner]

On 4/12/2024 at 7:38 PM, Techwright said:

This is what I've pondered for a while.  I've no knowledge of what it would take, but could a private base (aka "batcave") system be cloned from the supergroup system?  Then supergroups be reserved for a plurality of players. 

 

I don't think it would change anything. There's just very little value in joining an SG any more and I think most players would still opt for a batcave over being allowed to use someone else's concept... especially if the base concept/implementation and the quality of the SG membership don't overlap.

 

That anyone can get into any base with a code, which can be trivially bonded to a macro, pretty much obviates any base-related arguments for joining an SG.

 

I could get behind something that made SGs as a social, teaming and "community" thing valuable again, but bases, pretty much the only real driver, aren't it.

[Mr. Apocalypse]

I am of the opinion that the SG system should be renamed secret lairs, each character when created get access to his own secret lair (all of the current storage etc) that grows based on level. You can choose to allow only your other toons on the same "@global"  to access, no other "@global" players or it be solely for that one toon..   An SG could still be formed, but that would be more like a coalition.  A player forming an SG could make his own secret lair into a SG, or form a new SG base and link his secret lair to it. any new members joining the sg would be able to move between the their secret lair and the SG via portal with no codes etc.

 

All of this or any other aspect talked about would be a welcome addition or change, but the fact remains there is no need for SGs at this time in the game.   The real issue is this; we need a real reason to have SG's again,  we need SG only content again!

 

[Lunar Ronin]

On 4/12/2024 at 9:38 PM, Techwright said:

 

This is what I've pondered for a while.  I've no knowledge of what it would take, but could a private base (aka "batcave") system be cloned from the supergroup system?  Then supergroups be reserved for a plurality of players. 

 

That is what Thunderspy did.  PCs get their own apartment with a code and can be decorated outside just like Homecoming's supergroup bases.  However, they're purely decorative and serve no function.  If you want storage and function, you have to join a supergroup with a base built on prestige, like live.  Best of both worlds, and supergroups have actual meaning and purpose, unlike on Homecoming. 

[Shenanigunner]

8 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

 

That is what Thunderspy did.  PCs get their own apartment with a code and can be decorated outside just like Homecoming's supergroup bases.  However, they're purely decorative and serve no function.  If you want storage and function, you have to join a supergroup with a base built on prestige, like live.  Best of both worlds, and supergroups have actual meaning and purpose, unlike on Homecoming. 

 

I dunno. As much as I've enjoyed building and remodeling my base over the years, I'm not sure I'd be tempted by Barbie's Dream Batcave in which nothing, you know, actually works. 🙂

 

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

I dunno. As much as I've enjoyed building and remodeling my base over the years, I'm not sure I'd be tempted by Barbie's Dream Batcave in which nothing, you know, actually works. 🙂

 

I'd definitely want a functional secret lair.  I mean, you bring up the Batcave, and I'd note that even the sparse, backup lairs of the Londinium Batcave in Batman 1966 and that in The Dark Knight had the best supercomputers for their day. 

 

[Shenanigunner]

6 hours ago, Techwright said:

I'd definitely want a functional secret lair.  I mean, you bring up the Batcave, and I'd note that even the sparse, backup lairs of the Londinium Batcave in Batman 1966 and that in The Dark Knight had the best supercomputers for their day.

 

Hey, the display walls in my Situation Room are so functional they have a permanent staff to monitor and manage them. 🙂

 

ETA: And, of course, two are out on lunch break when I stop by for a pic—

 

Edited May 5 by Shenanigunner

[Scarlet Shocker]

I want either Cloudbase or Tracey Island.

 

Nothing less will suffice.

[Ravenplume]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:05 PM, Triumphant said:

RP'ers will always have a good reason to join a supergroup.  If you're not an RP'er, there are probably still plenty of reasons you might find to join one.  Other people may never want to belong to a SG, and that's okay too.

 

I would love to see someone make a SG which could perhaps be Called The Isekin; and every character in the group has an origin of being from an Earth where City of Heroes and other MMOs are just that...MMOs...